[arnaud]

Quote:

This is where it will be tricky comparing them to the 007s, as the 009s have a strong peak at 4k that gives the "forward" and "bright" impression. Being an unusual place for a peak in the FR, I found it somewhat confusing to work out exactly what was going on initially.

Hi Currawong, where did you get this info from? I vaguely remember a post referring tests done in Japan but the conclusion was that these peaks were due to the non-equalization of the response (e.g. these were pinna resonances from the person's head since he used in-ear mics to do these tests). Although, comparatively to the 007 test, the 009 could be said brighter from looking at this data, in my perception the 009 is simply more neutral sounding than the darker than nature 007A. I am eager to see Tyll's data which will be compensated for the measurement device.
 
I guess my point is that I don't hear a "strong peak" in the upper mids like you're referring (while I could easily hear it with the HD800, Edition 10, to name a few of the recent "revealing" headphones I listened comparatively to). I certainly agree that the 009 is brighter than the 007 and clearly this affects the imaging (wider), impact (it does sound more forward) and detail. But it's a positive attribute in my book while an artificial peak would not be felt as natural at all, especially at 4k!

 

[googleli]

For those in Hong Kong - DMA Audio is holding a Stax electrostats audition week - you can listen to the 007, 009 etc.  Not sure if they have the Omega Mark One though.
 

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

 
This is where it will be tricky comparing them to the 007s, as the 009s have a strong peak at 4k that gives the "forward" and "bright" impression. Being an unusual place for a peak in the FR, I found it somewhat confusing to work out exactly what was going on initially.
 
 

 
Isn't that area where the HD800 has peaks too if I remember correctly? 
 

 

[silverlight]

Hi - I wanted to clarify earlier post in response to some of the questions.
when I said: "(although the HE90's are really unique and they're a lot of fun to listen to with their soundstage/headstage, emphasis and detail in the upper mids through HF range, and "air" sound which gives the perception of greater space)", was referring to the HE90's.  vs a 009/007 comparison. The HE90 definitely has a peak/lift (if I had to guess a wider peak not a narrow one, but let those with the FR curves tell us for sure), in the upper mids to lower HF's, which is why I find it can sound so pleasing with some music, while at the same time it is lean in the low end.
 
Re 009/007, I can understand why some people might prefer the 007's, as they do sound more laid back/relaxing, but in comparison to the 009's they sound a little veiled as a result of the increased detail/resolution/imaging capability of the 009.  I found the soundstage to be bigger and more well defined, but the vocals in most of the tracks I listened to stood out more (I don't know if I'd say "forward" or not).  A similar and meaningful change happens when I switch DAC's (the MPS-5 presents more forward "front row" sound, vs the Model 4 is more like "10th row" sound, the PS Audio PWD is more like the Model 4 in this regard) so I find myself having to be careful when making absolute comments or comparisons when listening to the same headphone from one system to the next.  So IMO it will take extended listening to really acclimate and decide which of these two or three headphones has the long term appeal, but I do like the 009 out of the box.

 

[kiertijai]

I can understand why some people might prefer the 007's, as they do sound more laid back/relaxing, but in comparison to the 009's they sound a little veiled as a result of the increased detail/resolution/imaging capability of the 009 
   I agree that the SR007 is darker than the SR009.   The SR009 has increased more detail, resolution , imaging and bigger soundstage.
   I think Milos or Andy or Birgir and many in the US head-fi group buy for SR009 can better provide the information, if they have more
time with the SR009.  I think those have much better setup and all of the legendary phones not only the Stax but also dynamic or orthodynamic phones to compare.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

 
Quote:

I can understand why some people might prefer the 007's, as they do sound more laid back/relaxing, but in comparison to the 009's they sound a little veiled as a result of the increased detail/resolution/imaging capability of the 009

 
  I agree that the SR007 is darker than the SR009.  The SR009 has increased more detail, resolution , imaging and bigger soundstage.
I think Milos or Andy or Birgir and many in the US head-fi group buy for SR009 can better provide the information, if they have more
time with the SR009.  I think those have much better setup and all of the legendary phones not only the Stax but also dynamic or orthodynamic phones to compare.

So, if I like my HE-60 a little more than my O2 Mk1 (whether on my WES or KGSS), maybe I'll like the SR-009 more than 007 too?  I just don't want to think about a $5000 phone right now - I'd have to sell the WES and O2 Mk1 to afford them.
 

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Hi Currawong, where did you get this info from? I vaguely remember a post referring tests done in Japan but the conclusion was that these peaks were due to the non-equalization of the response (e.g. these were pinna resonances from the person's head since he used in-ear mics to do these tests). Although, comparatively to the 007 test, the 009 could be said brighter from looking at this data, in my perception the 009 is simply more neutral sounding than the darker than nature 007A. I am eager to see Tyll's data which will be compensated for the measurement device.
 
I guess my point is that I don't hear a "strong peak" in the upper mids like you're referring (while I could easily hear it with the HD800, Edition 10, to name a few of the recent "revealing" headphones I listened comparatively to). I certainly agree that the 009 is brighter than the 007 and clearly this affects the imaging (wider), impact (it does sound more forward) and detail. But it's a positive attribute in my book while an artificial peak would not be felt as natural at all, especially at 4k!

Thanks for clarifying that. I must have missed that. I did play a little with the iTunes EQ and didn't find much going on at 4k with much the music I listen to, so any unusually strong (compared to other headphones) FR in that area didn't seem to affect as much as peaks in other areas.  Since I also received the LCD-2 r2s, which have a stronger response from about 2-6kHz compared to the originals, I've been finding them more similar than not to the FR of the 009s. If that's quite close to neutral, then what you say makes sense to me.  I can't wait to find out how they measure when Tyll gets around to it.
 

 

[jamato8]

So what is the minimum amp that will work respectively with the 009? It gets hard to shell out the almost 5 thousand for the phones and another same amount for an amp but maybe that is just the way it is. Of course we can't forget everything upstream. 

 

[googleli]

I am using the SRM727ii for the 009 and it already kicks the LCD2's arse, big time. I am still hesitating whether to order BHSE and wait a year or more, or wait for something better from Stax.

 

[edstrelow]

 
Quote:

Hi Currawong, where did you get this info from? I vaguely remember a post referring tests done in Japan but the conclusion was that these peaks were due to the non-equalization of the response (e.g. these were pinna resonances from the person's head since he used in-ear mics to do these tests). Although, comparatively to the 007 test, the 009 could be said brighter from looking at this data, in my perception the 009 is simply more neutral sounding than the darker than nature 007A. I am eager to see Tyll's data which will be compensated for the measurement device.
 
I guess my point is that I don't hear a "strong peak" in the upper mids like you're referring (while I could easily hear it with the HD800, Edition 10, to name a few of the recent "revealing" headphones I listened comparatively to). I certainly agree that the 009 is brighter than the 007 and clearly this affects the imaging (wider), impact (it does sound more forward) and detail. But it's a positive attribute in my book while an artificial peak would not be felt as natural at all, especially at 4k!

I find the 007A is about as bright a phones as I can take so the 009 sounds problematic.  The 007A has both a bass and an lower treble peak which I estimate more about 8 kHz.  Spritzer's spring mod (i.e.flattening the spring) definitely helped smooth these out and it seems as the ear pads compress, the sound is getting smoother yet again.
 
Why  I say the peak is at  8kHz is because the 007A brings up tape hiss on old analog recordings and when I have played with an equalizer, a boost at about 8kHz has the same effect.
 
 
Quote:

MAC Computer using I tunes and Pure Music Software in Bit Perfect (no equalizer used) to Ridge Street Audio USB Alethias to Legato USB to SPDIF Converter to Reimyo DAP-999 DAC to Ridge Street Audio IC's to BHSE to SR-009.   The Lambda question is interesting because some of the Lambdas have incredible detail- but the Lambdas were always missing the Refinement of the SR-007.   The SR-009 detail to my ears is better than the best I heard- because there is a depth and layering of the information going on.  On the surface level, it is equal with the best I ever heard. but unlike the Lambdas, the detail is layered and therefore much more refined.  Also, the SR-009 has much better bass impact, and much much bigger width of stage than the Lambdas.   The key here is the incredible refinement.    I do think Jude hit it on the nail to a large degree when he said this phone is about detail-  but if I may add the word REFINED before the detail- it would I believe give a more accurate picture.

It sounds as if you enjoyment of the 009 has taken a big jump up. Could this be a break-in or an adjustment of your own taste? Would you still say the 009's are a 10-15% improvement over the 007's?
 

 

[livewire]

Quote:

I am using the SRM727ii for the 009 and it already kicks the LCD2's arse, big time. I am still hesitating whether to order BHSE and wait a year or more, or wait for something better from Stax.

Glad to hear that.
At $4K to $5K it should seriously kick some ass. Though you would prolly have a hard time convincing the hardcore LCD2 junkies about that.
Just get the BHSE. You know that you really want it and anything else would only be second best. I wouldn't hold my breath regarding Stax releasing a new amp anytime soon.
 
 

 

[googleli]

I don't need to convince anyone. Just have them listen to the 009 and they will notice how ridiculous the "transparency" (so they praise) of the Rev 2  is, and how keeping the Rev 1 instead would suddenly all make sense to them. 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

So what is the minimum amp that will work respectively with the 009? It gets hard to shell out the almost 5 thousand for the phones and another same amount for an amp but maybe that is just the way it is. Of course we can't forget everything upstream. 

The SRM-323S is likely the minimum, and its also more neutral than the 727 or the 007Tii (so I've heard). You could also build or commission a KGSSHV for WAY less than 5 grand.
 

 

[kiertijai]

 the "transparency" (so they praise) of the Rev 2  is, and how keeping the Rev 1 instead would suddenly all make sense to them.  
 
In my opinion, the LCD2 rev1 or rev2 are also excellent headphones.  But I don't think they are
that transparent.  There are definitely darker than the SR009.  They have a unique and beautiful mid, rolled off
treble , their bass are one of the best : quantity, impact, more decay (so it seems to be less dynamic)
but the soundstage is noticable narrower.   However I found that some of the weak points of the LCD2
rev1 has been corrected to some extent with the rev2, with the recable to a more silver (in Thailand we prefer
the Zeus silver clad, and SAA endorphin).  The soundstage, treble extension, detail, imaging improves a lot
when using the fully balanced Balancing act.  (The Balancing Act is a tube amplifier but they don't sound much tubey
to me, in fact they are fast, neutral and resolving). Those weak points of rev1 also can be corrected by tube rolling of the driver 6SN7's
e.g. the bass dynamic can be much improved with the sylvania 6sn7w metal base or Tungsol BGRP, the sweetness of mid
and treble extension can also improved with the use of Mullard ECC33 or Brimar CV1988/6SN7GTY.   With the use
of Balancing Act, tube rolling, recable can improve both rev1 and rev2 so you can still have all the good points of
rev2 with the unique mid of the rev1 and I haven't explore all the options of 6SN7's and haven't changed the power tubes
So at least I plan to keep rev1 and probably rev2 too.

 

[googleli]

I used Amperex 1950's NOS D-getters 12AX7s  and the Mullard 1950's EL84s for the LCD2 Rev 1. Good tubes and interconnects do correct the problem a bit (btw I was using Tara Labs The One interconnect between my Esoteric K-01 SACD player and the Leben), but it is still nowhere close to the Stax in terms of transparency. LCD2 is "transparent", implying there is still something in between. With the 009 there is nothing in between.