[SilverEars]

UERM is already discontinued and I didn’t like the UERR hence, went for UE18+. But it turns out the UE18+ is picky of the source. I only find it very good sounding and natural out of Hugo. I didn’t like it even out of LPG which is strange because that is what I used with the demo.

On the other hand, I find the PP8 sound good no matter what the source is. I like the treble switch on. But not the bass switch. I think because it boost not just the bass but the low mids as well. However, if my mood calls for a deep thumping I just apply a 3-6dB boost fron 150hz downwards.

PP8 is probably less finicky to source as was the UERM although refinement with better sources are clearly heard. I think the main difference for this is the dynamic capability of the iems and sources that is able to push dynamics to a higher level, the iems that are capable would output it at a greater scale than something that more of less close to flat sounding which people generally refer to as neutral. There are cases where the right source will bring out the bass capability, dynamics, etc.., but with certain iems, it matters much less. I can't imagine an iem that doesn't sound good out of LPG. LPG is like hot sauce, and if it doesn't sound correct out of other sources, LPG will tend to do the deed. That is quite strange.

 

[goodvibes]

I actually found the LPG on the analytical side where it doesn't flow as well as some others. Great detail and dynamic control but lacked a certain texture in some recordings I know well. Why I tweaked it a bit.

Dynamically flat sounding and neutral mean completely different things to me.

 

[SilverEars]

I actually found the LPG on the analytical side where it doesn't flow as well as some others. Great detail and dynamic control but lacked a certain texture in some recordings I know well. Why I tweaked it a bit.

Dynamically flat sounding and neutral mean completely different things to me.

LPG isn't all high in mighty all respects if we're being critical about it(if we've listen to enough of them, we can be a bit critical as I dunno if there is perfection). My experience is that it can drive various type of drivers very well while other players may not so well. It doesn't have a wide headstage as some I've heard(notably the Mojo or Opus #2, and the newest AK TOTL), but the mids and the articulate region are quite interesting in it's output, I'd consider it musical sounding that it's very engaging(I know, I know, very strange way to put it, but that's what I experience, and it's very hard to describe precisely). So, not quite analytical. It does have a bit of a lower to mid treble lift(which can be EQ'd easily since it has excellent EQ) gives spice to the output, which I can see that being the reason if labeling it on the analytical side, and the bass isn't the best quality out there. The main strengths are being able to drive certain iems that are a bit finicky to sources really well, and sounding very engaging in general.

As far as textures, it has plenty, but your points maybe certain ones are not noticible to you? It has a bit of a texturey or grainy type of treble I can best describe it, but I really can't say it's the most resolving or accurate kind either, but it is in the area of the top DAPs that perform in HiFi level. I really like it due to it's engaging sound, finicky iem driveability, and it's accurate parametric EQ(which DAP has ones that EQ so well?).

Neutral is hard one to pinpoint to be really agreeable, but it makes makes sense to say dynamically flat rather than attach neutral to it.

 

[zig3n]

Hi ALL...

Is there any recommendation for the Balanced Cable that are not changing the sound of PP8?
I have the Effect Audio Thor Silver II, it makes the soundstage a tad smaller, a tad more mid-bass & lower treble, less airy...
Also I have the ALO Ref-8, it makes less bass, less vocal body, brighter high, and about the same soundstage...

My DAP is Opus #2 and PP8 is already sounds great with the standard 3.5mm cable, but I looking for 2.5mm balanced cable without changing too much the sound signature.

Thank you...

 

[headwhacker]

Hi ALL...

Is there any recommendation for the Balanced Cable that are not changing the sound of PP8?
I have the Effect Audio Thor Silver II, it makes the soundstage a tad smaller, a tad more mid-bass & lower treble, less airy...
Also I have the ALO Ref-8, it makes less bass, less vocal body, brighter high, and about the same soundstage...

My DAP is Opus #2 and PP8 is already sounds great with the standard 3.5mm cable, but I looking for 2.5mm balanced cable without changing too much the sound signature.

Thank you...

The default cable of PP8 I think measures 2ohms. As far as I remember, Opus has an OI of around 2ohms. If you get used to that sound aftermarket cables usually have almost 0 OI. So that might be causing the difference in the sound you are experiencing.

 

[SilverEars]

I think Opus or AK (both Korean DAP makers) has about 2ohms output impedance and balanced is half of the single ended. Eventhough it's 2ohms, my Andro interestingly output much bass, greater than the AK240. I really like the dynamics, wide sound stage, separation, and imaging from the Opus #2(which is one of my favs).

Below is the impedance response, the lowest it gets is 15ohms which isn't bad. It's not like Andro with down to 4ohms in the bass region.

 

[zig3n]

Thank you so much for the inputs... I have been told that PP8 is great with Effect Audio Leonidas... any experience with Leonidas?
Thanks again for the help... Cheers...

 

[headwhacker]

Thank you so much for the inputs... I have been told that PP8 is great with Effect Audio Leonidas... any experience with Leonidas?
Thanks again for the help... Cheers...

Maybe measure the stock cable, then get a balanced cable with similar value. that is mostly would sound similar to the stock cable in your setup.

 

[bartzky]

The stock cable is ~3 ohm for both ways. I measured a bunch of effect audio cables too and they were about 3 ohm as well. I sadly don't remember which exact models I measured.
As far as I know the ALO should be of lower resistance. I think some people measured about 1 ohm, but I'm not sure.

The PP8 will sound darker with rising OI and cable impedance, but it's a rather subtle effect for a few ohms.

Also it could be that you do like a mild crosstalk. The stock cable is a 3-wire cable, that causes some crosstalk. Crosstalk can actually sound pleasing and enlarge the soundstage. You won't have that effect with a balanced cable.

 

[zig3n]

The stock cable is ~3 ohm for both ways. I measured a bunch of effect audio cables too and they were about 3 ohm as well. I sadly don't remember which exact models I measured.
As far as I know the ALO should be of lower resistance. I think some people measured about 1 ohm, but I'm not sure.

The PP8 will sound darker with rising OI and cable impedance, but it's a rather subtle effect for a few ohms.

Also it could be that you do like a mild crosstalk. The stock cable is a 3-wire cable, that causes some crosstalk. Crosstalk can actually sound pleasing and enlarge the soundstage. You won't have that effect with a balanced cable.

Thank you very much for your inputs... I think it's better I hold on with the stock cable since it's sounding the best to my ears... Thank you...

 

[noplsestar]

Thank you very much for your inputs... I think it's better I hold on with the stock cable since it's sounding the best to my ears... Thank you...

You might also want to repeat your question on this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hig...ressions-pics-comparisons-and-reviews.804952/

 

[zig3n]

You might also want to repeat your question on this thread:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hig...ressions-pics-comparisons-and-reviews.804952/

Ok... thank you...

 

[goodvibes]

I think Opus or AK (both Korean DAP makers) has about 2ohms output impedance and balanced is half of the single ended. Eventhough it's 2ohms, my Andro interestingly output much bass, greater than the AK240. I really like the dynamics, wide sound stage, separation, and imaging from the Opus #2(which is one of my favs).

Below is the impedance response, the lowest it gets is 15ohms which isn't bad. It's not like Andro with down to 4ohms in the bass region.

I think you meant that balanced usually doubles output impedance. At that point the impedance low point would be affected an slight but audible amount.

The cable resistance thing is way overstated. The same techies that say it's difficult to hear less than a 1db difference will point to fractions of an ohm difference in cable resistance to explain why some hear variation... just because it's something they can actually measure. And again, it's resistance and not cable impedance even though it affects the overall character. If it were that simple, the iEMatch wouldn't screw up the sound of the Andro.

 

[SilverEars]

No, balanced is half the output impedance of single. Interestingly, Mojo has lower bass for a close 0 ouput impedance. You have to look at the load measurements to see how these iems really react to particular source.

 

[goodvibes]

No, balanced is half the output impedance of single. Interestingly, Mojo has lower bass for a close 0 ouput impedance. You have to look at the load measurements to see how these iems really react to particular source.

Same circuit in balanced mode is always double the output impedance. If we take the resistor equivalent, think of 2 in series. I just did a look for a better explanation and Benchmark has one. I feel the same as they do about balanced vs unbalanced amps. There may be advantages in distortion artifact cancellation at other levels of audio design but things like common mode rejection are generally not needed and leads to over complication in consumer audio amplification. It's a thing right now so everybody is doing it but it's not better. If you prefer a rounder take which is common from balanced often not cutting as sharp an edge, it's better for you but there are actually more things to go wrong than right when you try and build two opposite and perfectly equal amplifiers, especially when there was nothing wrong with the 1st one.

The only time a balanced amp will have a lower output impedance is when it's a completely unique circuit not associated with the unbalanced one, which is meaningless in a general discussion.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better