[yokken]

I just got my HD600s and I'm loving the signature. It's detailed but laid back. Perfect headphones to have a beer to. I can't wait for my Lyr tomorrow. It's going to make everything even better. As it should, for $450.

 

[palmfish]

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Ugh, the more I listen to the treble of the new drivers, the more I develop a very polarizing love-hate relationship with them.
 
On one end, the elevated 10-16kHz makes instrumental music ridiculously holographic and engaging, almost like my ears physically feel the sound pressures of when cymbals crash and strings pluck, coupled with the fantastic bass, the whole package is there to over-deliver in jazz music and the like.
 
But on the very other hand, this messes with vocals big time; every singer sounds like their vocal cords have turned to needles and dry sand.

 
Jerg, I hear exactly what you're talking about now.
 
I didn't notice it at first because I was focusing on the midrange. The mids to me sound too thick and wooly - which is the same issue I have with the HE-500 and LCD-2. The 400's are better than these, but it still lacks the clear, crisp airiness of my D7000's. To be cliche, it's like removing a veil when I switch to my Denon's. But to nail down the midrange issue, I switched to Adele's "Chasing Pavements" thinking her lower voice might help me figure it out. Sure enough, while the mids are definitely on the warm, thick side, I immediately heard the raspy, sibilant treble you have described. It's in the upper treble region (8kHz+) to my ears, and it's very annoying once you pick it out.
 
I just wish I could remember exactly how the HE-400's at the meet sounded. I don't remember the thick mids or the sibilance, but then again, it was at a meet with noise, distractions, and limited head time. I think the HE-400 is going to be my last attempt to fall in love with planar magnetic headphones for a long time.
 
I'm going to spend some quality time with these over the weekend, but so far, my D7000's wipe the floor with these HE-400's.

 

[TwinQY]

Has anyone ever tried the HE-400s out with the M^3s? My friend brought them over today, along with the HD800s. Wow! Completely destroys the HE-400+Asgard pairing. The HE-400s just sound like there's a massive power reserve behind every kick. I daresay, I like it even better than the HE-400+DAC1 pairing. Guess I know what I'm getting for myself this Christmas 

 
With all this R3 talk, I'm planning on going to my local store with my own pair, see if they have the R3s so I can try and get an AB comparison.

 

[yokken]

I really don't think it's just the power of suggestion here -- the high treble really is sharp. I EQ'd it down last night which made it listenable but I'm not sure I'm even going to give the HE400s a chance after hearing the HD600s. I love the laid back but detailed signature. I'll most likely be listening to them all night long. Right now I'm in love, compared to the HE400s which were heavy and shrill. I hate to generalize so much, but after how much everyone built them up, they really do hurt to listen to. I love sparkly treble but the HE400s can be downright painful. I'd like to save my hearing, and I feel like the HE400s are trying to kill it.

 

[RushNerd]

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Has anyone ever tried the HE-400s out with the M^3s? My friend brought them over today, along with the HD800s. Wow! Completely destroys the HE-400+Asgard pairing. The HE-400s just sound like there's a massive power reserve behind every kick. I daresay, I like it even better than the HE-400+DAC1 pairing. Guess I know what I'm getting for myself this Christmas 

 
With all this R3 talk, I'm planning on going to my local store with my own pair, see if they have the R3s so I can try and get an AB comparison.

That's awesome! I knew these babies had a lot more to give then even the Asgard was letting them  have. Hopefully the Lyr is just as powerful, they have similar prices.
 
 

I really don't think it's just the power of suggestion here -- the high treble really is sharp. I EQ'd it down last night which made it listenable but I'm not sure I'm even going to give the HE400s a chance after hearing the HD600s. I love the laid back but detailed signature. I'll most likely be listening to them all night long. Right now I'm in love, compared to the HE400s which were heavy and shrill. I hate to generalize so much, but after how much everyone built them up, they really do hurt to listen to. I love sparkly treble but the HE400s can be downright painful. I'd like to save my hearing, and I feel like the HE400s are trying to kill it.

Next to a hd600 of course it's going to sound like that. They are probably broken if you think the 400's are shrill, that's pretty extreme. I totally understand the high treble thing though, going from hd 650 to 400's it's like WOW there is a lot more high treble information. Either it's not to your taste or something is wrong with the setup. Hold judgment for the Lyr though (the hd600's will shine on it as well, but those are lot more neutral.)

 

[yokken]

I haven't put the HE400s on today, I've just been listening to the HD600s for the past hour. Just based on what I heard last night, the HE400s were piercing and sibilant on certain notes, with the treble just being pretty edgy overall. I'll give 'em another chance with the Lyr.

 

[TwinQY]

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That's awesome! I knew these babies had a lot more to give then even the Asgard was letting them  have. Hopefully the Lyr is just as powerful, they have similar prices.
 
 
 
Next to a hd600 of course it's going to sound like that. They are probably broken if you think the 400's are shrill, that's pretty extreme. I totally understand the high treble thing though, going from hd 650 to 400's it's like WOW there is a lot more high treble information. Either it's not to your taste or something is wrong with the setup. Hold judgment for the Lyr though (the hd600's will shine on it as well, but those are lot more neutral.)

 
I remember the DAC1s being much better than the Lyr with the HE-400s when I came back from trying them. I'm A/Bing the DAC1 and M^3 right now, and I can say they're matching blow by blow quite evenly. So logic dictates, DAC1=M^3>Lyr. I think the Lyr technically outputs more power though. The HD800s get more volume from the M^3 than from the DAC1s right now.
 
Quote:

 
Jerg, I hear exactly what you're talking about now.
 
I didn't notice it at first because I was focusing on the midrange. The mids to me sound too thick and wooly - which is the same issue I have with the HE-500 and LCD-2. The 400's are better than these, but it still lacks the clear, crisp airiness of my D7000's. To be cliche, it's like removing a veil when I switch to my Denon's. But to nail down the midrange issue, I switched to Adele's "Chasing Pavements" thinking her lower voice might help me figure it out. Sure enough, while the mids are definitely on the warm, thick side, I immediately heard the raspy, sibilant treble you have described. It's in the upper treble region (8kHz+) to my ears, and it's very annoying once you pick it out.

 
Totally agree, my LCD-2s, while not as mid-emphasized as the HE-500s, just get too lush at times. The Denons I tried at the meet, while not the D7000s, just boasted really refreshing clarity. Totally didn't expect it, what a pleasant surprise!
 
The pairs at the meet? I'm listening to them right now!  I loaded the Adele song on with my HE-400s, and while the higher vocal notes are a bit thin, I just can't get any sibilance. In fact, it's quite the opposite, they can be a bit forgiving at times. With the HD800s, the treble is much brighter.
     
      Quote:

I really don't think it's just the power of suggestion here -- the high treble really is sharp. I EQ'd it down last night which made it listenable but I'm not sure I'm even going to give the HE400s a chance after hearing the HD600s. I love the laid back but detailed signature. I'll most likely be listening to them all night long. Right now I'm in love, compared to the HE400s which were heavy and shrill. I hate to generalize so much, but after how much everyone built them up, they really do hurt to listen to. I love sparkly treble but the HE400s can be downright painful. I'd like to save my hearing, and I feel like the HE400s are trying to kill it.

 
Now I really need to try the R3s. Have you tried lowering the volume? When you get the Lyr, try putting the volume at 9-10'o clock, it's what I had it on last time.

 

[Mikesin]

I'm guessing I can remove the black material behind the default grills too? Would that sound any different? I'm considering in trying it with my default pair 

but not liking the fact I could break something when opening it...!
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Decided that the fabric on my custom grills are still introducing too much ringing and inhibiting soundstage too much to warrant the slight dust protection, so I ripped em out, going L95North style.
 
Just gotta be a bit more careful around pokey things and blow some compressed air in there once every while; the cleaner and more open sound is worth it though. These almost sound fully speaker-like this way, very surreal.
 
 

 

 

[palmfish]

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The pairs at the meet? I'm listening to them right now!  I loaded the Adele song on with my HE-400s, and while the higher vocal notes are a bit thin, I just can't get any sibilance. In fact, it's quite the opposite, they can be a bit forgiving at times. With the HD800s, the treble is much brighter.    

 
If you thought her 2000's sounded good, imagine my 7000's. Same basic sound, only a little cleaner and airier, with slightly tighter, better controlled bass.
 
I was skeptical about the "Rev 3" sounding different, but if yours are "Rev 2" and sound like I remember (the way you're describing), then there may be something to Jerg's observations. Are yours "Rev 2" (grey driver frame)?
 
It's just ridiculous that yours sounded so good to me and these don't. I wish I could listen to yours again to be sure.

 

[MattTCG]

I can understand why a little hotness to the treble would change someone's reaction and enjoyment of the he400. I'm quite treble sensitive and just don't like bright hp's at all. The r2 was already as bright as I would like them to be. 
 
Is there anyone with an e17 and r3 who would notch the treble down -2, -4 and let me know if they sound better or like the r3? 

 

[satanigatan]

Same here, definitely treble sensitive.
 
I also find the HE-400 to be a bit harsh on some female vocals with the pleather on. Then again, I'm using the E17. 
Quote:

I can understand why a little hotness to the treble would change someone's reaction and enjoyment of the he400. I'm quite treble sensitive and just don't like bright hp's at all. The r2 was already as bright as I would like them to be. 
 
Is there anyone with an e17 and r3 who would notch the treble down -2, -4 and let me know if they sound better or like the r3? 

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

Same here, definitely treble sensitive.
 
I also find the HE-400 to be a bit harsh on some female vocals with the pleather on. Then again, I'm using the E17. 

 
So could you decrease the treble with the hardware EQ and tell me if it sounds better?

 

[jerg]

Quote:

I can understand why a little hotness to the treble would change someone's reaction and enjoyment of the he400. I'm quite treble sensitive and just don't like bright hp's at all. The r2 was already as bright as I would like them to be. 
 
Is there anyone with an e17 and r3 who would notch the treble down -2, -4 and let me know if they sound better or like the r3? 

I tried this numerous times actually; it turns out the brightness is not the issue here, even with -4 or -6 treble on E17 (the entire treble sounds muffled at -6 dB!!) there is still this insufferable metallic piercing ringing in the upper registers going through the music. THAT is what that's been causing grief to a lot of rev3 owners methinks.

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

I tried this numerous times actually; it turns out the brightness is not the issue here, even with -4 or -6 treble on E17 (the entire treble sounds muffled at -6 dB!!) there is still this insufferable metallic piercing ringing in the upper registers going through the music. THAT is what that's been causing grief to a lot of rev3 owners methinks.

 
Gotcha. Well, that's what I was afraid of. 

 

[palmfish]

Quote:

I tried this numerous times actually; it turns out the brightness is not the issue here, even with -4 or -6 treble on E17 (the entire treble sounds muffled at -6 dB!!) there is still this insufferable metallic piercing ringing in the upper registers going through the music. THAT is what that's been causing grief to a lot of rev3 owners methinks.

 
Exactly. It's not brightness or hotness.