[jerg]

Quote:

Thanks TMRaven.
 
 
Thanks jerg. I've read that nice assessment, but It was only about HE-400. I didn't get my answers about HD 600.

Maybe PM purrin here or on his forum? I bet he has auditioned or even owned the HD 600, and maybe he could provide you with some direct answers.
 
Also here are his measurements for HD650 (which is more or less a retuned HD600s so should have quite similar characteristics)
 
If you compare the two FR's
 
HE400
(c) purrin
 
 
HD650
(c) purrin
 
You could see why HD650 is more accurate - it just has a significantly smoother midrange, so everything will sound more "right", with better timbre. 
 
Also, the only "emphasized mids" of the Senns are the upper mids / lower treble region, relative to the HE400s, and it's actually not that emphasized, overall it still looks very neutral all the way up to 5k.
 
I agree though that you get more extremity bass / treble rolloff with the Senns, but they are not utterly rolled off, which means the details should still be there if you listen closely. HE400s are more exciting in this regard as all that yummy subbass and treble sparkle detail is there in baskets.
 
The warmness of the Senns is really just another way of saying "bass/mids are relatively more in proportion to treble", it doesn't have any significant FR curve-related funky colouration though. Then again, nor does the HE400s, they just have different tonal balances.

 

[wje]

Based on the recent handful of posts, I wanted to add my comments and figured it might be best just to phrase my thoughts and energies into a single post.
 

• This thread is about the HifiMAN HE-400s.  It is a place for all of us fanboys of the HE-400s to sit around and high-5 each other because we love the HE-400s so much.
• The Sennheiser HD-600 might, or might not be a more accurate sounding headphone.  It depends on which charts you look at and whos opinion you read or listen to.  The fact is, one could be looking for a car.  So, they shop based on the sticker and the E.P.A. mileage states 40 MPG for the highway.  So, the person buys it.  They are the kind of driver that guns it on the freeway on-ramps to 80 MPH, but then after averaging their highway mileage, realize they are only getting 30 MPG, not 40 MPG.  What does this say?  Well, the charts and graphs on headphones can be like the sticker on a car.  The charts and graphs can be "best case" scenarios and not apply to everyone's listing habits, types of music, level of volume, source device, amplification device, DAC device, etc.  We're all different and all of our approaches are different.  Going back and forth with jabs on the HD-600 vs. the HE-400 will not prove anything.  Too many variables are involved the the cycle of disagreement will never end, or be resolved.
• Those of us who bought the HE-400 headphones, bought them because of the sound quality.  Might that quality sway a bit from complete sound accuracy?  Yes, probably.  Might that sound also provide a somewhat colored presentation?  Yes, probably.  However, we don't really care.  We purchased a pair of headphones that has some excellent sound for a very good price that is a solid pair of headphones constructed with plenty of metal where possible and not nearly the level of plastic that the HD-600 has.

 
That's all.  Thanks for hearing me out. 

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

Maybe PM purrin here or on his forum? I bet he has auditioned or even owned the HD 600, and maybe he could provide you with some direct answers.
 
Also here are his measurements for HD650 (which is more or less a retuned HD600s so should have quite similar characteristics)
 
If you compare the two FR's
 
HE400
(c) purrin
 
 
HD650
(c) purrin
 
You could see why HD650 is more accurate - it just has a significantly smoother midrange, so everything will sound more "right", with better timbre. 
 
Also, the only "emphasized mids" of the Senns are the upper mids / lower treble region, relative to the HE400s, and it's actually not that emphasized, overall it still looks very neutral all the way up to 5k.
 
I agree though that you get more extremity bass / treble rolloff with the Senns, but they are not utterly rolled off, which means the details should still be there if you listen closely. HE400s are more exciting in this regard as all that yummy subbass and treble sparkle detail is there in baskets.
 
The warmness of the Senns is really just another way of saying "bass/mids are relatively more in proportion to treble", it doesn't have any significant FR curve-related funky colouration though. Then again, nor does the HE400s, they just have different tonal balances.

 
This should be a sticky on the front page.  Good summarizing of things!
 
Quote:

Based on the recent handful of posts, I wanted to add my comments and figured it might be best just to phrase my thoughts and energies into a single post.
 

• This thread is about the HifiMAN HE-400s.  It is a place for all of us fanboys of the HE-400s to sit around and high-5 each other because we love the HE-400s so much.
• The Sennheiser HD-600 might, or might not be a more accurate sounding headphone.  It depends on which charts you look at and whos opinion you read or listen to.  The fact is, one could be looking for a car.  So, they shop based on the sticker and the E.P.A. mileage states 40 MPG for the highway.  So, the person buys it.  They are the kind of driver that guns it on the freeway on-ramps to 80 MPH, but then after averaging their highway mileage, realize they are only getting 30 MPG, not 40 MPG.  What does this say?  Well, the charts and graphs on headphones can be like the sticker on a car.  The charts and graphs can be "best case" scenarios and not apply to everyone's listing habits, types of music, level of volume, source device, amplification device, DAC device, etc.  We're all different and all of our approaches are different.  Going back and forth with jabs on the HD-600 vs. the HE-400 will not prove anything.  Too many variables are involved the the cycle of disagreement will never end, or be resolved.
• Those of us who bought the HE-400 headphones, bought them because of the sound quality.  Might that quality sway a bit from complete sound accuracy?  Yes, probably.  Might that sound also provide a somewhat colored presentation?  Yes, probably.  However, we don't really care.  We purchased a pair of headphones that has some excellent sound for a very good price that is a solid pair of headphones constructed with plenty of metal where possible and not nearly the level of plastic that the HD-600 has.

 
That's all.  Thanks for hearing me out. 

Good summary as well.  Personally I think HD650 CAN be better than HE-400 if well kitted out.  I was never as fond of HD600 as HD650 though.  But HE-400 is excellent in its own right.  Though despite the plastic Senn's builds tend to feel more "tight" in teneral IMO and seem to have a lower failure rate.  But both are my favorite headphones and compete for head time.  There are some things that simply sound better and more engaging to me on HE-400, namely orchestral.

 

[TexasBuck]

Ordered the HE-400 yesterday.  Should have it by the end of the week.  I also own the Senn HD-600.  Hoping the HE-400 is different enough from the Senn so they both get some use.  If not, one of them will be going up for sale.
 

 

[Fearless1]

Quote:

Ordered the HE-400 yesterday.  Should have it by the end of the week.  I also own the Senn HD-600.  Hoping the HE-400 is different enough from the Senn so they both get some use.  If not, one of them will be going up for sale.
 

I have not used my 600s since the He-400s arrived. They are as good as this thread indicates, tube amp and velour pads= fantastic.

 

[Black Sun]

Thanks jerg for your detailed reply. I'll also PM purrin and ask his opinion.

 

[TexasBuck]

Quote:

I have not used my 600s since the He-400s arrived. They are as good as this thread indicates, tube amp and velour pads= fantastic.

I ordered the velour pads, but my NuForce Icon HD amp will have to do. (At least for the next several months)

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Thanks jerg for your detailed reply. I'll also PM purrin and ask his opinion.

 
Do note though that purrin's measurements and subjective listening impressions were with stock pleather pads, instead of the velour pads, so it's not really the optimal HE400 performance so to speak.

 

[Anda]

I have a HE-400 on loan and the FA-003/HM5/Jaycar pads are also very nice for the HE series.

 

[jfindon]

Got my velours in the mail today... now how do you change them? I've read they're easier on the newer revisions but don't recall seeing instructions.

 

[TMRaven]

You just literally pull them off.

 

[jfindon]

Ok, getting them off is easy, do the tabs on the velours need to be inserted or do you just use that little flap again?  I'm guessing the tabs but I can only get two in at a time.

 

[brokenthumb]

Quote:

Ok, getting them off is easy, do the tabs on the velours need to be inserted or do you just use that little flap again?  I'm guessing the tabs but I can only get two in at a time.

 
Just press gently down on the pad where the tab is and it will slide under the lip, repeat on the other tab.

 

[jfindon]

Wow, if this is easier I would hate to see what it was like before.  Pushing isn't making them go and I don't want to smash my $400 headphones.  What a pain.

 

[MattTCG]

After you've done it a few times, it will seem like cake...