New Hifiman Headphone HE-400 is out
Mar 28, 2012 at 8:32 AM Post #1,126 of 6,017
I reckon it's just that the headphones are just harsh in this case. Although when I changed the opamps in my Asus ST my DT880, DT440 and TF10 became really really harsh in the treble.
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 9:39 AM Post #1,127 of 6,017
So, the model has harsh treble then?
That would kind of be a deal breaker on my part.
 
A neat test would be if you note the following tracks to be painfully sibilant and/or find the treble piercing at times.
 
Jaga Jazzist - Day (Lots of effects going on in the upper register)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZzlOidLDc
 
Emancipator - With Rainy Eyes (Pay particular attention to the snare from 0:40 and out)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygad_Hxshlw
 
My impression so far was that treble on this phone was slightly laid-back and perhaps reminiscent of the LCD-2s and HD650s in being somewhat recessed. Are my impressions wrong? 
confused_face_2.gif

 
Oh, and I really did not mean to start a burn-in discussion here, sorry. I am just saying that I normally get more used to the sound of a headphone after about a month or so, this might be a lot of things.
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 10:26 AM Post #1,128 of 6,017


Quote:
Yes.  No problem.  Actually, with the regular TRS connector, I thought the HE-400s sounded "good".  Moving over to balanced connectors with the speaker taps changed the sound by improving the level of realism and detail - kind of in an eery way, actually.  In my case, my Sansui, presented the music to me through the TRS connector and I could listen to the many various artists and enjoy my music.  However, when moving over to the speaker taps, I found that when I went back and relistened to some of the various sections of music that I'm quite familiar with, the headphones were much more "alive".  The vocals had more authority - like the performer was in the room with me and not me off in the distance listening to them.  The changes in their vocals as they would sing through the songs was pure and I could easily hear the changes in pitch, etc. 
 
I think for anyone who has the HifiMAN headphones, it would be worth considering moving over to a balanced cable and speaker taps.  The price is actually quite cheap, and will not cost an arm and a leg.  I was able to get a pair of Neutrik 4-Pin XLR connectors (Male / Female) for $12.99 - delivered.  Also, the Canare star quad cable runs only about $.51 cents per linear foot + shipping from various on-line vendors.  Finally, a new set of golden headphone connectors runs $10.## + shipping and they claim that their version is easier to work with than the connectors that are sold and provided by HifiMAN.  Clearly, this isn't snake oil that I'm trying to sell people on.  Doing the speaker taps, extension cable with the XLR connectors at each end, etc., woud ony be about $60.00 in materials.  In my case, it was a bit less because I used my cable from my HE-5LEs, which had the HifiMAN golden headphone connectors in place, as well as the XLR connector at the end of the cable.  However, in time, I'll build my own dedicated cable for the HE-400s so I don't have to keep doing the cable swaps.
 
I've also been running my HE-5LEs this weekend with the balanced mode cables.  In that configuration, my 5LEs produced less bass than the 400s, but still a pleasing amount.  However, the vocals were even more accurate and responsive.  Now, I can only imagine what it must sound like to have the HE-6 with a balanced connection and milking that details and "liveness" for all one can.  But, one must also consider if it's worth spending 120% more money for a 15% improvement in sound?
 
When I got into this hobby some years back with my Grado SR-60s (5 or 6 years back) or even my Radio Shack (made by Koss) closed headphones about 32 years back or the Yamahas 28 years back, I never thought I'd be able to ever achieve this level of sound quality from headphones.  Call me impressed.  Greatly impressed.
 
 
 


hi.. is your amp is balanced as well? or is it just the headphone you terminate to balanced configuration (or 4 banana plugs)?
 
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 10:39 AM Post #1,130 of 6,017


Quote:
Mine is terminated via the balanced configuration - 4 leads to 4 leads. (L+, L-, R+, R-).
 



hmm, yes.. 4 banana plugs will get you balanced connection. but does your amp have balanced speaker out as well?
 
i don't have balanced speaker amp, but if reterminating the headphone in that configuration yields positive result, i may give it a try.. so i'm still waiting for your confirmation to proceed
tongue.gif

 
and also, if you look inside the amp, the headphone out has extra circuitry compared to the speaker out (usually dc offset protection, or module to lower the gain, etc.). so theoretically, the headphone out will be more inferior compared to speaker out
 
hence it's not a really objective comparison unless you compared both the trs and balanced connection through the speaker out (via trs-banana plug converter for the trs connection)
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 12:15 PM Post #1,131 of 6,017
Quote:
So, the model has harsh treble then?
That would kind of be a deal breaker on my part.
 
A neat test would be if you note the following tracks to be painfully sibilant and/or find the treble piercing at times.
 
Jaga Jazzist - Day (Lots of effects going on in the upper register)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZzlOidLDc
 
Emancipator - With Rainy Eyes (Pay particular attention to the snare from 0:40 and out)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygad_Hxshlw
 
My impression so far was that treble on this phone was slightly laid-back and perhaps reminiscent of the LCD-2s and HD650s in being somewhat recessed. Are my impressions wrong? 
confused_face_2.gif

 
Oh, and I really did not mean to start a burn-in discussion here, sorry. I am just saying that I normally get more used to the sound of a headphone after about a month or so, this might be a lot of things.


The treble isn't harsh at all. It just sounded like there was a very sharp spike in the upper mids that went away after burn-in. It almost sounded sybilant for a bit. Whenever the voice had a sharp syllable it seemed raspy, a bit like her mouth was too close to the mic and it was picking air blowing out of her mouth.

Edit: phone keyboards lead to miss-spellings.

edit 2: back at my computer so I can actually listen to those songs. They both sound awesome on these cans. Those snares sound great, good impact, although maybe a little sharp if you have the volume up high. The higher frequencies seem to get sharp if you turn the volume up high (past normal listening levels, they hurt your ears before the other sounds do). I listened to them with the volume pot on my fiio e-10 at around 12:30 (off is 9:00) and it was perfect.

These cans have a bit of a smile curve, with a bit more at the lower end of the sound spectrum, but I can't imagine calling them being V or U shaped. Coming from the ATH M-50's to these was a bit of a shock. Even though it has relatively less bass than the M-50 compared to the mids, that's just because it's very well balanced. The bass just doesn't bleed into the mids. I still find bassy songs extremely enjoyable, and I find myself tapping my foot along to songs more frequently.
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 12:30 PM Post #1,132 of 6,017


Quote:
The treble isn't harsh at all. It just sounded like there was a very sharp spike in the upper miss that went away after burn-in. It almost sounded sybilant for a bit. Whenever the voice had a sharp syllable it seemed raspy, a bit like their mouth was too close to the mic and it was picking air blowing out of her mouth.


+1 bullseye
 
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 1:00 PM Post #1,133 of 6,017
Double sided mounting tape as Lars mentioned. Not as neat looking as I would like but very comfortable. The earpads are the leather ones from FA-003


Mmmm. I would like to try this. But I can't seem to find where to buy just the foam replacements. Every search I do just ends up with replacement ear pads, not headband pads.

Looks mighty comfy though. I also might consider those Fischer pads too. Sure looks classy.
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 1:04 PM Post #1,134 of 6,017
Anyone else with batch 2 cans wanna comment on the HE400's mids after ~week or more of ownership / burn-in so far? I like how it's been smoothing out a bit, not nearly as drastic as how the treble changed though, and has left much to be desired in terms of flatness still.


The mids on mine have smoothed out a bit. A little less recessed than they were just out of the box. I really enjoy them. Certainly not as good as my pair of RE-262's I had a while back, but those had some of the best mids I've heard on any headphone.

I have noticed burn in over the past week and a half, but I don't think it's anything significant. The sound signature doesn't change, in my opinion. I just think they become more consistent. Fewer pops and the occasional funky sound is gone. They just stabilized the sound over the past 40ish hours.
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 1:37 PM Post #1,135 of 6,017


Quote:
So, the model has harsh treble then?
That would kind of be a deal breaker on my part.



Don't worry, they aren't sibilant (your linked YT music on highest quality have no harshness with these cans at all). The treble of these cans are very hard to describe; it's not laid-back / dark at all, but at the same time it is not as shimmery or sparkly as its big brother. I'd say it has a fairly prominent and flat lower treble and a subdued higher treble.
 
The reason why some of us think vocals have a raspy "sibilance" is likely because there is a little valley in the upper mids somewhere accentuating the vocals a bit more than neutral. However like I said it flattens out gradually as you burn-in.
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 1:41 PM Post #1,136 of 6,017
Double sided mounting tape as Lars mentioned. Not as neat looking as I would like but very comfortable. The earpads are the leather ones from FA-003


Mmmm. I would like to try this. But I can't seem to find where to buy just the foam replacements. Every search I do just ends up with replacement ear pads, not headband pads.

Looks mighty comfy though. I also might consider those Fischer pads too. Sure looks classy.


This is where I got mine http://www.thomann.de/de/sennheiser_hd_650_kopfpolster.htm
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 2:04 PM Post #1,137 of 6,017


Quote:
The treble isn't harsh at all. It just sounded like there was a very sharp spike in the upper mids that went away after burn-in. It almost sounded sybilant for a bit. 


 
 
Quote:
Don't worry, they aren't sibilant (your linked YT music on highest quality have no harshness with these cans at all). The treble of these cans are very hard to describe; it's not laid-back / dark at all, but at the same time it is not as shimmery or sparkly as its big brother. I'd say it has a fairly prominent and flat lower treble and a subdued higher treble.

 

I see now. I think... This sounds great! And I am getting fairly confident the phones do too! 
wink.gif

Back to my excited waiting. Thank you all very much for lots of great help so far!
 
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 7:26 PM Post #1,138 of 6,017


Quote:
This is where I got mine http://www.thomann.de/de/sennheiser_hd_650_kopfpolster.htm



Do you know if there are any websites based in the US which sell them?
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 8:05 PM Post #1,139 of 6,017


Quote:
hmm, yes.. 4 banana plugs will get you balanced connection. but does your amp have balanced speaker out as well?
 
i don't have balanced speaker amp, but if reterminating the headphone in that configuration yields positive result, i may give it a try.. so i'm still waiting for your confirmation to proceed
tongue.gif

 
and also, if you look inside the amp, the headphone out has extra circuitry compared to the speaker out (usually dc offset protection, or module to lower the gain, etc.). so theoretically, the headphone out will be more inferior compared to speaker out
 
hence it's not a really objective comparison unless you compared both the trs and balanced connection through the speaker out (via trs-banana plug converter for the trs connection)


For the small amount of money, I think going through an reterminating a spare cable is well worth it.  In my case, I used my HE-5LE cable, which already had a 4-pin XLR connector at one end.  So, in my case, I didn't have to chop up any factory cables to to where I am.  Then again, the factory cable for the HE-400 isn't fabulous cable by any means with the molded-on TRS connector, etc.  The Canare quad cable is a good cable, though.  However, my might consider ordering a pair of the gold connectors at the ear cup level and staring fresh with some new cable.  Again, it won't be all that expensive and you'll have a bit more control over your length, etc.  I receiver / amp isn't a "true" balanced amp to answer your question.  However, my running a balanced connection off of the speaker outs, it has meant for very life-like vocals that are almost chilling.
 
 
Mar 28, 2012 at 9:45 PM Post #1,140 of 6,017
Has anyone Tried doing a Diy all silver lighter cable with this headset yet??
 
Also what would i expect to hear in difference between stock and mody, if i performed that mod with my set whenever i do receive it??....
 

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