[Hero Kid]

Quoters fail.
 
Regardless, nice write up warp08!

 

[warp08]

Quote:

Thanks. Would you say the higher treble is emphasized vs. mids or about the same vs. mids when compared to the HE-500? I listen at low volumes.
 
My issues with the HE-500s, keeping in mind my low level listening, when weighed against being A) open and B) $700, were 1) I was missing a bit of the tactile impact in the bass that something like the M50s give at very low volume, 2) I was missing some expected wetness / shimmer in the treble, and 3) I wasn't hearing a clear advantage in transient response or detail. I liked them, just didn't love them.
 
For $350 instead of B) $700, I can overlook A) open and 3) average transient / detail response. And it sounds like 1) tactile bass is more developed on these. Wondering what the treble is like for a low volume (60-65 dB) listener.
 
Thanks!

I apologize, but as I said I only had a very short time to spend with these.  Normally I wouldn't even post about an experience but this has happened in my home using familiar equipment and recordings.
 
There is a common misconception held that amplification loudness vs. headroom are closely related and essentially synonyms for the same thing.  Orthodynamic headphones do scale up with amplification well, regardless of make or model.  This applies somewhat less to the HE-400s just because the driver surface is a bit less than, say the HE-500 but not drastically so.  So, regardless of listening level the dynamics of rendering will not change, in fact, THD should be lower since the amp and the driver operate at lower load and better efficiency.
 
The HE-400s have actually somewhat higher detail and transient response than the HE-500s.  This could be good or bad depending on listening preference.  I personally love the HE-500 sound because I prefer the analogue sound signature for many genres and remastered classic recordings.  As Fang explained, in order to enhance treble and transparency, the midrange was made more linear.  I'm not saying it lacks midrange completely, but this signature will be overall more balanced.  It won't have the ultra-transparency and sound stage of the HE-6--when properly driven--but you will get most of that goodness including the tight bass and sensible treble extensions with very little sibilance, more attributable to the Dark Star's signature than the headphone's further aided by the aftermarket silver cable in this regard.  
 
I'm not saying the HE-400s outperform the HE-500s nor the HE-6s, but my initial reaction was and remains that I hear more than $400 sound out of them.  In fact, somebody entertaining getting the HE-300s vs. 400s, the 400s will be worth the extra $100 without hesitation.  As for getting it vs. the 500s, it's a matter of taste. If you prefer a more linear headphone sound signature, the 400s may be your ticket.  If you like me and appreciates the charm of warmer sound, the extra investment may well be worth it.  If you can, get both of them.  With the price drop on the HE-500s, I just don't see how you can go wrong with either one.
 

 

[dealsaddict]

wow thanks warp08!!! such nice pictures of the He-400. I still can't see the headphone termination though. Does it plug into the headphones via a 1/4 jack or it's proprietary ?

 

[Vonx]

Hmm, what is the retail price going to be after the pre-order promotion is over?
 
$399?

 

[M-13]

 

Quote:

 
The HE-400s have actually somewhat higher detail and transient response than the HE-500s.

 

 

[Vonx]

Quote:

 

 

Due to the emphasized treble, obviously. 

 

[murrays]

 
Quote:

Hmm, what is the retail price going to be after the pre-order promotion is over?
 
$399?

 
That's what their website states.
 

 

[M-13]

Treble doesn't increase transient speed... I'm thinking thinner/lighter diaphragm. Increased transient speed would increase actual detail and not just preceived detail through treble boost. 
 
Quote:

Due to the emphasized treble, obviously. 

 

 

[MohawkUS]

 

 

I had a very brief conversation with Fang and he noted that the HE-400s were more detailed and laid-back than the HE-500s, less involving and forward. I'm rethinking my pre-order.

 

[JudgeDreadLocks]

Do you think you could give a quick comparison on these vs. HD600's in terms of midrange?

 

[Nankai]

Quote:

I had a very brief conversation with Fang and he noted that the HE-400s were more detailed and laid-back than the HE-500s, less involving and forward. I'm rethinking my pre-order.

Really? When did I say that? HE-500 headphones are much better for long time listening, and I don't think HE-500 have less detail.
 
To be honest, we did tune HE-400 more "American sound" than HE-500. Comparing typical America sound thiel or JBL speakers to UK speaker such as spendor sp100, ATC or harbeth, many people believe thiel or JBL have more detail or more neutrual than those UK speakers, but I personally perfer Spendor or harbeth a lot. I don't like America sound signature. But business is business, we have to make something can sell. 
 
If Senn dare to sell Orpheus below $2000, a lot of headfiers will complain that it is lack of detail comparing to STAX. 
 
Fang

 

[Nepenthe]

There is a common misconception held that amplification loudness vs. headroom are closely related and essentially synonyms for the same thing. Orthodynamic headphones do scale up with amplification well, regardless of make or model. This applies somewhat less to the HE-400s just because the driver surface is a bit less than, say the HE-500 but not drastically so. So, regardless of listening level the dynamics of rendering will not change, in fact, THD should be lower since the amp and the driver operate at lower load and better efficiency.

But we hear differently at different volume levels. We tend to be less sensitive to bass and treble at low volumes (why all reviews should include a measurement of the volume that was used). That is what I'm getting at.

Originally Posted by warp08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The HE-400s have actually somewhat higher detail and transient response than the HE-500s. This could be good or bad depending on listening preference. I personally love the HE-500 sound because I prefer the analogue sound signature for many genres and remastered classic recordings. As Fang explained, in order to enhance treble and transparency, the midrange was made more linear. I'm not saying it lacks midrange completely, but this signature will be overall more balanced. It won't have the ultra-transparency and sound stage of the HE-6--when properly driven--but you will get most of that goodness including the tight bass and sensible treble extensions with very little sibilance, more attributable to the Dark Star's signature than the headphone's further aided by the aftermarket silver cable in this regard.  

Well, it's sounding pretty good so far. Thanks.

I had a very brief conversation with Fang and he noted that the HE-400s were more detailed and laid-back than the HE-500s, less involving and forward. I'm rethinking my pre-order.

More detailed and yet more laid-back? Hmm.
 
Can one of you folks who knows Fang mention to him that closed, isolating, detailed orthos with efficiency along the lines of the HE-400 (based on numbers) would be a wonderful thing to invest some R&D into? 

 

[tim3320070]

Quote:

 
Can one of you folks who knows Fang mention to him that closed, isolating, detailed orthos with efficiency along the lines of the HE-400 (based on numbers) would be a wonderful thing to invest some R&D into? 

 
Yes, yes, yes. A D7000 killer for less money. I can't think of a headphone like this other than a super pricey Stax or cheapy Fostex- something of quality, in between would do well IMO.

 

[MohawkUS]

Really? When did I say that? HE-500 headphones are much better for long time listening, and I don't think HE-500 have less detail.
 
To be honest, we did tune HE-400 more "American sound" than HE-500. Comparing typical America sound thiel or JBL speakers to UK speaker such as spendor sp100, ATC or harbeth, many people believe thiel or JBL have more detail or more neutrual than those UK speakers, but I personally perfer Spendor or harbeth a lot. I don't like America sound signature. But business is business, we have to make something can sell. 
 
If Senn dare to sell Orpheus below $2000, a lot of headfiers will complain that it is lack of detail comparing to STAX. 
 
Fang

Maybe I misunderstood, I said that I preferred a more engaging forward sound as compared to a detailed laid-back sound, and you responded that the HE-400 was more like the second one and that the HE-500 might be what I was looking for.

 

[nick n]

Quote:

Well, it's sounding pretty good so far. Thanks.
More detailed and yet more laid-back? Hmm.
 
Can one of you folks who knows Fang mention to him that closed, isolating, detailed orthos with efficiency along the lines of the HE-400 (based on numbers) would be a wonderful thing to invest some R&D into? 

If you look directly before your post Fang ( Nankai ) addressed this "detailed and more laid back" thing