[LarsHP]

Frequency chart of the HE-400 from InnerFidelity.com (with pleather pads I expect):

 

[IEMCrazy]

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I suspect that you've also heard that the previous version of HifiMAN pads were pretty frustrating to take on and off.  I'm looking forward to getting the newer style of velour pads to try them.  Also, in comparison to the Sennheiser pads, fortunately, the HifiMAN pads don't cost $40+ to replace.  

 
Try $40+ per pad for AKG

  Those pads are about 1/3 the cost of the headphone it seems

 
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-These hifiman pads are very easy to take off and put back on (nothing compared to the nightmare that was the Denon and Beyer pads) so I will A/B them more down the line, and probably correct my initial impressions if I was wrong.

 
I love the Denon & AKG bayonet mount.  What part did you find a nightmare, removing the bayonet ring, or separating/inserting the pad material over the ring afterward?
 
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I was wondering what al your opinions on this headphone for movies compared to the denon 5000. Would either be a good a choice? I am leaning to the 400 as I like the open sound of my akg q701 just wishing they had better bass presenc. That and i would think an open headphone would sound more naturally like being in a theater.
If not I am open to sugjestions since I am a bt lost since headphones specifically for movies don't seem to betalked about much here.

 
It would be hard to beat the soundstage of Q701.   Short of HD800 and Audio Technica, 701 has one of the widest soundstages around.  HE-400 has more stage than Denon though.  Honestly I used HD650 a lot for movies years ago, so I'm probably not the one to talk to for ideal movie cans 

 
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You should stick with the velour for at least a week. We may have different head/ear sizes and of course the fit will be different for each of us. But the sound is better on all fronts for me. With the pleathers the drivers would sometimes just touch my left ear around the edge. With the velours it never does. So that it my measuring stick for the velours being thicker. 
 
Everything across the sound spectrum is better for me. The bass included. The sound stage is now massive. When I listen to Haydn, the violins featured are still beautifully layered but they are able to attach and punch with more energy than before. That may not be the best description but that's the only way I know how to describe it. 
 
I'll stick to my guns and original claim...the velours are a very nice upgrade for the he400 and at $16 shipped is a no brainer.

 
And I'll stick to my guns and claim that your main improvement comes not from velour pads but from driver placement that is easy to also correct for pleather via headband stretching. 

 
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Can someone tell me what accessories come with the HE-400? I heard they came in a cardboard box as opposed to the normal nice boxes. Do they also come with a silver cable? To my understanding the HE-300 comes with silver cables. 

 
Be very very very glad that it does not come with that failure-prone silver cable from HE-500!  Also, most folks seem to not prefer silver with HE-400.  The Canare cable is a very nice cable for them, IMO.
 
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Actually my source right now is the dx100. Is. That enough? Or just get a bifrost first?
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 
Bifrost!  You already have the slightly superior headphone, you'll get much more improvement from a better DAC than buying the model-below headphone (that has a somewhat different sound signature.)  It's possible you'd like HE-400's signature more, but the better DAC will benefit you with any headphone, so you might as well start there. 
 
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Velour > Leather
 
I have experience with the leather, now while satisfying to own and look at and soothing to the ego, the leather pads are not designed to match the sonic properties of the velour. The velour gives you the perceived soundstage by pushing the driver as far back as possible resulting in the typical HE-series helmet fit.

 
I still think thicker, angled, pleather pads would do the HE series a world of good.  Though from Raven's pictures the velour isn't much thicker, and I doubt I'd get farther placement with velour than with pleather and a properly stretched headband. 
 
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Now, having both the HE-400s and the HE-500s, I can say with some degree of confidence that while there is a sound difference between the two, the HifiMAN signature is shared to a high degree between the two models.  Now, for the buyer, if they want to opt for the more expensive HE-500, they can.  However, they should also consider what $300 in additional cost might offer them, and if it will be worth it or not.  If I didn't have both to my avail, I will state that I'd be quite content with the HE-400.  But, also having access to the HE-500 provides me with the subtle differences that the higher level model offers, which comes mainly in the mid-range being offered.  While the HE-400 doesn't have a bad mid-range at all, the HE-500 provides the benefit of an more level frequency response over the spectrum. 

 
Obviously, both are voiced differently.  HE-500 is more mids centric, HE-400 has more neutral mids and an ever so slight smirk/smile with the extended bass.  Do you find you can tell much difference between them overall? 

 

[TMRaven]

The new pleather and velour are the same thickness I think, except the pleather seems to give in easier, so when both are worn in, the velour will be overall slightly thicker.  The difference isn't huge enough to affect soundstage 'drastically' like some people mention.  In fact I don't really hear a big difference in soundstage depth between the two.

 

[jerg]

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Obviously, both are voiced differently.  HE-500 is more mids centric, HE-400 has more neutral mids and an ever so slight smirk/smile with the extended bass.  Do you find you can tell much difference between them overall? 

 
I think that the consensus (however much you want to believe it) is that since HE500 drivers are hand-made, with a larger tracing surface-area that is bonded in a more refined way, that its sound is just more refined and smooth; it shows too, in FR curves and square wave curves from Inner Fidelity, the HE500 curves are extremely smooth always, while HE400 curves are more bumpy with some rather sharp peaks/valleys in certain cases. 
 
There are quite a few photos of HE400/500 exposed drivers side-by-side and the tracing quality difference is pretty apparent.

 

[brokenthumb]

Does anyone notice that the material in the center of the pads seems more translucent on the velour.  I can see through it quite easily.
 
Edit: Nevermind, they look the same when held up to a light.  It's only when they are on the headphone that the velour seems more translucent.

 

[IEMCrazy]

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I think that the consensus (however much you want to believe it) is that since HE500 drivers are hand-made, with a larger tracing surface-area that is bonded in a more refined way, that its sound is just more refined and smooth; it shows too, in FR curves and square wave curves from Inner Fidelity, the HE500 curves are extremely smooth always, while HE400 curves are more bumpy with some rather sharp peaks/valleys in certain cases. 
 
There are quite a few photos of HE400/500 exposed drivers side-by-side and the tracing quality difference is pretty apparent.

 
I don't doubt the traces are made to different standards, and we do know they're voiced somewhat differently.   I don't doubt that HE-500 is technically superior, but i was mostly curious subjectively, since they aren't supposed to sound the same it's hard to have a direct comparison, if the HE-500 is actually notably subjectively better of if the two are so different that there's really no way to compare, or if they're so similar it's a struggle to differentiate them.

 

[TMRaven]

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Does anyone notice that the material in the center of the pads seems more translucent on the velour.  I can see through it quite easily.
 
Edit: Nevermind, they look the same when held up to a light.  It's only when they are on the headphone that the velour seems more translucent.

 
 
I experienced the same.  under normal angles I can actually see the metal of the magnet structure shining through the velour's cloth.  I never saw that on the pleathers.

 

[brokenthumb]

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I experienced the same.  under normal angles I can actually see the metal of the magnet structure shining through the velour's cloth.  I never saw that on the pleathers.

 
Yea that's what I'm talking about.  It's easy to see the magnet with velour but the pleather you can barely see it.

 

[jerg]

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Yea that's what I'm talking about.  It's easy to see the magnet with velour but the pleather you can barely see it.

 
They should be acoustically transparent enough not to make a difference though. But yeah, neat! I'm hoping my replacement pair will come with velour pads instead of pleather ones (I requested it but no replies yet).

 

[wje]

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Obviously, both are voiced differently.  HE-500 is more mids centric, HE-400 has more neutral mids and an ever so slight smirk/smile with the extended bass.  Do you find you can tell much difference between them overall? 

 
You've essentially listed the main difference between the two. Yet, the difference between the two isn't so radical.  The HE-400s still have a bit of an upper frequency tinge that I'd like to tame on the portable system - yet, it's not presented on my Yamaha integrated, where I also use the HE-500s.  But, both are are quite good - very good, in fact, that I feel my search has finally reached a plateau.  Instead of being on a mission to find I'll appreciate best, I'll live with what I have and enjoy.
 
Which, by the way prompted me to return the Philips Uptown headphones today.  I had a mess of headphones laying around and wasn't sure that pair would be getting a lot of use.  Also, the burn in process during the week seemed to bring about some high frequency sizzle that was a bit troubling to me as the sound was very good in the beginning, yet changed.  Usually, I'm familiar with the opposite happening.  As the burn-in and adjustments take place - be it physical with the drivers, or our own period of getting acclimated better towards the sound, I usually have great results at this stage.  However, I couldn't figure out what or why the Uptown model chose to have the upper frequencies blossom as they did.  Usually, it's the lower frequencies that either tighten up at that stage or improve a bit.

 

[MickeyVee]

Just got my velour pads this afternoon and now have had a couple of hours with them.. listened directly form my iPod U2, MBA & FiiO E10 and my min rig.. 
- better perceived soundstage  as Chris pointed out.. really enjoying it
- on the other hand, I found bass to be noticeably better and I have no idea why.. really liking it!
- overall much better comfort.. somewhat like my HD650 but nothing seems to beat the HD650 comfort..
 I don't think I'll be going back to the pleather.
I'm liking the HE400 more and more. My HD650 & M-80 are getting pretty lonely.  I definitely don't feel the need for the LCD-2 anymore; maybe further down the road once I upgrade my source.
 
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Velour > Leather
 
I have experience with the leather, now while satisfying to own and look at and soothing to the ego, the leather pads are not designed to match the sonic properties of the velour. The velour gives you the perceived soundstage by pushing the driver as far back as possible resulting in the typical HE-series helmet fit.
 
The leather really closed the gap and turned my HE's into a close quarters wall of sound akin to Grado. I also lost a bit of bass since at that distance everything is sort of just bouncing around all willy nilly in there.
 

 

[IEMCrazy]

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You've essentially listed the main difference between the two. Yet, the difference between the two isn't so radical.  The HE-400s still have a bit of an upper frequency tinge that I'd like to tame on the portable system - yet, it's not presented on my Yamaha integrated, where I also use the HE-500s.  But, both are are quite good - very good, in fact, that I feel my search has finally reached a plateau.  Instead of being on a mission to find I'll appreciate best, I'll live with what I have and enjoy.

 
Interesting.  It's amazing how different perspectives view all angles differently at H-F.  Originally my impression was that the voicing difference was the major difference.  Then I got led to the "HE-500 is so technically superior" that I almost bought them.  Then I got brought back down to reality by Matt and Mal who told me that while 500 is "better" it wasn't that much better, and if you own one you really don't need to own the other.  That shocked me.  I was curious of your take on them.
 
I still stand by the idea that HE-400 would have been considered an "entry flagship" and it not been $400 and had it not been preceded by HE-5 and HE-500.  H-F-ers are a fickle sort "it's too cheap, it can't be good!" (Mostly because prices have tripled in five years.  At one time $400 would have been ultra expensive.)
 
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Just got my velour pads this afternoon and now have had a couple of hours with them.. listened directly form my iPod U2, MBA & FiiO E10 and my min rig.. 
- better perceived soundstage  as Chris pointed out.. really enjoying it
- on the other hand, I found bass to be noticeably better and I have no idea why.. really liking it!
- overall much better comfort.. somewhat like my HD650 but nothing seems to beat the HD650 comfort..
 I don't think I'll be going back to the pleather.
I'm liking the HE400 more and more. My HD650 & M-80 are getting pretty lonely.  I definitely don't feel the need for the LCD-2 anymore; maybe further down the road once I upgrade my source.
 

Very interesting impressions.  Maybe I will have to try the velour.  Hard to choose.  There's so much to love about the pleather though.  How tight is your headband?  Does it compress the pleather a lot?
 
HD650 shouldn't be lonely....I did the same for a while, but I'm really appreciating them again after being without them for a while.  Now my HE-400's are getting lonely    You'll have to try HD650 once you get your Lyr....few headphones change as radically as those as you upgrade

   HE-400 does well with the upgrade as well though. Tough call.

 

[MickeyVee]

re Velour Pads: For the $10 plush shipping, it's really a no brainier to try out. I don't find the headband tight at all and I have a big head (physically They're almost as comfortable as my HD650 but I find the round design a little weird.

After listening to the HE400 for a while, they do sound much better than the HD650 from cheaper sources. I'm finding the HD650 fatiguing and a little irritating for longer listening sessions. The plan is to get the Lyr and use the Matrix Mini-I as the DAC. In the Headphonia review, they praise the DAC and say little about the HP amp and I now know why. Couldn't get to sleep last night so I listened to my iPod with the M-80 and really enjoyed it. Its great to have variety.

Very interesting impressions.  Maybe I will have to try the velour.  Hard to choose.  There's so much to love about the pleather though.  How tight is your headband?  Does it compress the pleather a lot?

HD650 shouldn't be lonely....I did the same for a while, but I'm really appreciating them again after being without them for a while.  Now my HE-400's are getting lonely    You'll have to try HD650 once you get your Lyr....few headphones change as radically as those as you upgrade    HE-400 does well with the upgrade as well though. Tough call.

 

[wje]

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Interesting.  It's amazing how different perspectives view all angles differently at H-F.  Originally my impression was that the voicing difference was the major difference.  Then I got led to the "HE-500 is so technically superior" that I almost bought them.  Then I got brought back down to reality by Matt and Mal who told me that while 500 is "better" it wasn't that much better, and if you own one you really don't need to own the other.  That shocked me.  I was curious of your take on them.
 
I still stand by the idea that HE-400 would have been considered an "entry flagship" and it not been $400 and had it not been preceded by HE-5 and HE-500.  H-F-ers are a fickle sort "it's too cheap, it can't be good!" (Mostly because prices have tripled in five years.  At one time $400 would have been ultra expensive.)
 

 
Yes, the perspectives here can range far and wide, depending on who provides the answers.  The voicing is slightly different - though, not by a major amount as say the HE-400s vs. the Sennheiser HD-600s, or some other can from another manufacturer.
 
The response from Matt and Mal were probably quite realistic and their comment regarding that one person really didn't need to own both headphones.  I think this is true - and, is what I stated to an individual earlier member a few posts back.  Keep the HE-500s, and put some velour pads on them.  Don't buy a pair of HE-400s, if you already have the HE-500s.  It really makes little sense.
 
The physical differences between the two drivers is quite apparent.  The HE-400 driver features more plastic, while the HE-500 has a bit more metal in the construction.  Also, it has been noted that the HE-400 was able to be released at a lesser cost due to the increased use in automation to build the drivers.  I also wonder if the same can be said for the HE-500?  Originally, the HE-500 was released at the $899 price point, but then dropped to $699.
 
The HE-400 scales real well with better amplification.  Lower end amps (my portable gear) limits the HE-400s and they seem a bit bright and have a bit more color.  However, running them off of my integrated amp, allows them to really shine.  The HE-500, however, seems quite flexible from use with the portable system as well as the integrated amplifier.  The HE-500s are a bit smoother - I'll admit that.  They're like a pair of comfortable jeans.  They're great to put on and just kick back and listen for an extended, enjoyable time.  The HE-400s can also perform quite similar with slightly less smoothness, but they can still do it well with a good amp.
 
At the moment, I'm keeping both.  The HE-400s are used at night and taking the place of my Fostex for the time being.  The HE-500s, meanwhile, serve duty in my study with my comfortable chair.  However, coming from a Grado background and having many of their offerings in the $300 - $500 range, I think the HE-400 is an extremely good buy for anyone who might be a Grado fan, yet would want to capitalize upon a better bass response to go along with the details that a Grado headphone provides.
 
Ahh ... the pleasantness of it all.

 

[IEMCrazy]

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re Velour Pads: For the $10 plush shipping, it's really a no brainier to try out. I don't find the headband tight at all and I have a big head (physically

They're almost as comfortable as my HD650 but I find the round design a little weird.
After listening to the HE400 for a while, they do sound much better than the HD650 from cheaper sources. I'm finding the HD650 fatiguing and a little irritating for longer listening sessions. The plan is to get the Lyr and use the Matrix Mini-I as the DAC. In the Headphonia review, they praise the DAC and say little about the HP amp and I now know why. Couldn't get to sleep last night so I listened to my iPod with the M-80 and really enjoyed it.

 
I may have to give the velours a try now I probably won't get them for a few months, I'll be packing away the full-size cans for the hot months and switching to the IEMs.   Still the sound with pleather is unique and likable.
 
HD650 is, without question, the least fatiguing headphone I've ever heard, anywhere.  I think I know where you're coming from with them though, and there's three things to watch out for.   First is the DAC.  I could never pick one DAC from another in double-blind ABX, however some DACs do, over time, fatigue me more than others.  I don't know anything about the Mini-I as a DAC, and it may not be that, but I figured it's worth a mention.  The second is the amp: I was often fatigued by the aggressive, closed-in mids of the Headroom Micro with the HD650.  I do not get that effect with either Lyr or, surprisingly, O2 (an almost ruler flat SS amp.)  So you definitely may find that situation change for you once you move amps.  Finally, when one isn't used to the dark smooth, laid back presentation of HD650, one tries to eke more excitement out of it.   Since the human brain perceives more high frequency at louder SPLs, the way one ekes more excitement out of it is to crank the volume too high.  Since they're very low distortion, the warning signs don't tell you it's happening.   I was very guilty of that behavior with HD650 for a long time until I learned what mistake I was making.  I find they're far more refined at much lower listening levels, and at appropriate levels, with decent other equipment, there's no way they could ever be fatiguing, even compared to HE-400 which is also non-fatiguing. 
 
I may still pick HE-400 as my favorite.  But where Denon was becoming my #2 favorite, I think the HD650s have bested the Denons again for the #2 slot.  We'll see if they get more fatiguing once I get my Silver Dragon.  But it's also possible that will bump them just above HE-400 again for the top. Recently I've been using my stock cable for HD650  and my Cardas (which is great, but not so much on a warm amp.) 
 
I'm at end-game in terms of amp and source.  There is better out there but it costs way more and provides only small improvement.  Headphones....I have a curiosity toward the flagships but again, the diminishing returns at that level are so severe that there's no reason for the current quad-can setup to not be end-game.  Especially if HE-400 can be as close to HE-500 as wje and others have suggested.
 
Some cable tweaks here and there, pad tweaks....the more fun, less pricy side of audio is what remains

 
 
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Its great to have variety.

 
Agreed in full

 
 
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The physical differences between the two drivers is quite apparent.  The HE-400 driver features more plastic, while the HE-500 has a bit more metal in the construction.  Also, it has been noted that the HE-400 was able to be released at a lesser cost due to the increased use in automation to build the drivers.  I also wonder if the same can be said for the HE-500?  Originally, the HE-500 was released at the $899 price point, but then dropped to $699.
 
The HE-400 scales real well with better amplification.  Lower end amps (my portable gear) limits the HE-400s and they seem a bit bright and have a bit more color.  However, running them off of my integrated amp, allows them to really shine.  The HE-500, however, seems quite flexible from use with the portable system as well as the integrated amplifier.  The HE-500s are a bit smoother - I'll admit that.  They're like a pair of comfortable jeans.  They're great to put on and just kick back and listen for an extended, enjoyable time.  The HE-400s can also perform quite similar with slightly less smoothness, but they can still do it well with a good amp.
 
Ahh ... the pleasantness of it all.

 
I think the HE-500 isn't benefiting from much automation.  The new plastic internals, the smaller diaphragm, new cage, etc were all the necessities needed for automation.  I think HE-500 moved to $699 because the costs weren't different from HE-5LE and $899 was just an entry price to separate the two.  I imagine they stopped making HE-5LE a while ago and put all former HE-5 production on HE-500, equalizing the cost.  What will be interesting is when 550 or 600 comes out presumably with the new automated assembly. 
 
Your findings about amp scaling between the two are interesting.  I wonder if smaller drivers in general need more precision in amplification (it would explain HD650.)  I also wonder, if you were to put the same cable on the HE-500's what differences you'd find? The thing that's been lacking is 500v400 comparisons with pleather+pleather velour+velour silver+silver and canare+canare. 
 
I do find it interesting that they got them to be so similar.  Smoothness/mids aside.