[akg fanboy]

  The Sennheiser HD 598 CS looks pretty decent. These are for the office, so something I wouldn't mind losing to theft too much holds an appeal. Nothing's been stolen before, but I wouldn't like to lose some $300 cans.
 
It also meets a few criteria - good isolation, big bass and fully circumaural. Replaceable cable is nice.
Something aimed at studios in terms of durability would be a plus, as well as something from an established brand with widely-available replacement pads. I realise though that studio cans tend to emphasise unpleasantness so it can be dialled out of mixes.
 
So, to further specify:

1. Cheap-ish (<$200)
2. Very relaxed, gentle sound with very deep, rumbly but not boneheaded "thumping" bass and a bit of air in the treble. I'm very sensitive to the 3-8 kHz band and so forward-sounding phones are a no-no. I tend to get this shrieking/ringing staticky sound in my ears with forward phones. I'm a fussy baby.
3. Good isolation for the office (courtesy to co-workers)
4. Fully circumaural and comfortable
5. Replaceable cable and pads big bonus but not essential - a "commodity" product like the DT 770 would be the best if the DT 770 didn't take a cheesegrater to my eardrums every time the electric guitars kicked in.

My taste in music is very broad but in the "dark" ballpark and some of it tends to sound very large in scale, if that makes sense.
Some folk like Cohen and Vega.
Lots of older pop like Depeche Mode and The Cure.
Some classical and chamber pop like Lambchop and Tindersticks.
Heavier rock like Led Zeppelin and Soundgarden.
Shoegaze like Slowdive, My Bloody Valentine and Ride.
Some death/extreme/industrial metal like Godflesh and Jesu and very intense noise stuff like Einstürzende Neubauten and Swans which feature smashing metal and bass percussion seemingly generated by artillery.
Electronica like The Orb, Third Eye Foundation, Autechre and Aphex Twin which gets pretty harsh.

the b&o h6 seems to match everything you want, however they might not be over ear if your ears are not small. Otherwise the 598cs is a solid option that is pretty cheap these days and will be more comfortable if you want long term listening 

 

[Ladyfingers]

  the b&o h6 seems to match everything you want, however they might not be over ear if your ears are not small. Otherwise the 598cs is a solid option that is pretty cheap these days and will be more comfortable if you want long term listening 

That sounds like the winner. My ears are medium sized and just fit comfortably in the DT770s. The Sennheiser is going for $80 on eBay, so I may just pick it up. Thanks for the help!

 

[harry501501]

You should maybe look into the Yamaha MT220. It's not discussed often, but it should be! Those that have listened to it give it very good reviews, check around HF. I had the Yamaha HPH200, another small open back which I loved so took the plunge on the MT220. Instruments sound very natural and they're pretty open and airy for a closed back.
 
In fact, I've just started comparing them with the SPH9500 while I type with your specific music tastes... and do you know what, these share a VERY similar sound signature :-o
 
I've never noticed this before as I've only had the Philips for a few weeks. What i can say for certain though... is even though they share a similar sound, the Yamahas do it MUCH better in all depts. Now i like the SPH9500s, but i didn't think they where priced right at £100 (they're more accurately priced in USA at $50). Great balance to the sound, bit of sibilance. Bass has good resolution but there's not enough of it. the Yamaha's on the other hand...
 
Similar resolution in the bass, but more of it and just as tight. Goes a little deeper too.
 
Treble is very similar, but the Yamaha's take it down just a tiny notch and less chance of fatigue after long listening sessions. But it again sounds quite similar when i swap over.
 
Strangely, there is a similar sense of space and air between instruments and vocals. The open back SPH is wider though, but not by what you would expect comparing open v closed sets.
 
The Yamaha's are just more natural, with tighter... everything. Glad I answered this lol.

 

[Ladyfingers]

  You should maybe look into the Yamaha MT220. It's not discussed often, but it should be! Those that have listened to it give it very good reviews, check around HF. I had the Yamaha HPH200, another small open back which I loved so took the plunge on the MT220. Instruments sound very natural and they're pretty open and airy for a closed back.
 
In fact, I've just started comparing them with the SPH9500 while I type with your specific music tastes... and do you know what, these share a VERY similar sound signature :-o
 
I've never noticed this before as I've only had the Philips for a few weeks. What i can say for certain though... is even though they share a similar sound, the Yamahas do it MUCH better in all depts. Now i like the SPH9500s, but i didn't think they where priced right at £100 (they're more accurately priced in USA at $50). Great balance to the sound, bit of sibilance. Bass has good resolution but there's not enough of it. the Yamaha's on the other hand...
 
Similar resolution in the bass, but more of it and just as tight. Goes a little deeper too.
 
Treble is very similar, but the Yamaha's take it down just a tiny notch and less chance of fatigue after long listening sessions. But it again sounds quite similar when i swap over.
 
Strangely, there is a similar sense of space and air between instruments and vocals. The open back SPH is wider though, but not by what you would expect comparing open v closed sets.
 
The Yamaha's are just more natural, with tighter... everything. Glad I answered this lol.

These sound interesting. Are the mids gentle?

 

[harry501501]

Yes, there is no fatigue. The mids are positioned very similarly in the head space. The Philips are def harder to drive so need more volume, so that's why they may come across as gentle. To get a similar level of detail coming through in the mids I have to add much more volume on the Philips set. So 80% Vs say 60%, and the philips still won't get you the same level of clarity and detail as the Yams.
 
The Philips actually have a slight veil to the mids which isn't there in the Yams which also gives them the upper hand with detail levels. You hear more with the Yams at lower volumes, i can say that with certainty. The MT220s entered the market a few years ago well over £200, they have more than likely gone down as people don't tend to associate Yamaha with quality headphones. So like i said, even though they share a similar sound signature, it's done FAR better on the Yams. It's like a £50-70 set Vs. a £200+ set.
 
Put it this way, I've had Senn HD 650, AKG K550, Grado sr80e, have a look at my profile... personally the Yamaha MT220 is my clear favourite for sound and my go to headphone at home and in work.

 

[akg fanboy]

  Yes, there is no fatigue. The mids are positioned very similarly in the head space. The Philips are def harder to drive so need more volume, so that's why they may come across as gentle. To get a similar level of detail coming through in the mids I have to add much more volume on the Philips set. So 80% Vs say 60%, and the philips still won't get you the same level of clarity and detail as the Yams.
 
The Philips actually have a slight veil to the mids which isn't there in the Yams which also gives them the upper hand with detail levels. You hear more with the Yams at lower volumes, i can say that with certainty. The MT220s entered the market a few years ago well over £200, they have more than likely gone down as people don't tend to associate Yamaha with quality headphones. So like i said, even though they share a similar sound signature, it's done FAR better on the Yams. It's like a £50-70 set Vs. a £200+ set.
 
Put it this way, I've had Senn HD 650, AKG K550, Grado sr80e, have a look at my profile... personally the Yamaha MT220 is my clear favourite for sound and my go to headphone at home and in work.

What is the general sound signature of the yamahas? 

 

[Ladyfingers]

  Yes, there is no fatigue. The mids are positioned very similarly in the head space. The Philips are def harder to drive so need more volume, so that's why they may come across as gentle. To get a similar level of detail coming through in the mids I have to add much more volume on the Philips set. So 80% Vs say 60%, and the philips still won't get you the same level of clarity and detail as the Yams.
 
The Philips actually have a slight veil to the mids which isn't there in the Yams which also gives them the upper hand with detail levels. You hear more with the Yams at lower volumes, i can say that with certainty. The MT220s entered the market a few years ago well over £200, they have more than likely gone down as people don't tend to associate Yamaha with quality headphones. So like i said, even though they share a similar sound signature, it's done FAR better on the Yams. It's like a £50-70 set Vs. a £200+ set.
 
Put it this way, I've had Senn HD 650, AKG K550, Grado sr80e, have a look at my profile... personally the Yamaha MT220 is my clear favourite for sound and my go to headphone at home and in work.

Thanks!
 
I'm sort of paranoid now because after reading every thread I could find about the DT770, I was just shocked at how harsh they sounded with no-one saying anything at all in that vein and it made me wonder if I don't perceive sound slightly differently.
 
My home system is a NAD T747 with a Hsu Ultra 5.1 system with the ULS-15 sub, and its balance is very pleasing to me. I was warned the Hsus could be bright, but they seem to be reined in by the NAD. Lots of detail, and not a trace of harshness, and those ultra-deep lows.

 

[akg fanboy]

 
Thanks!
 
I'm sort of paranoid now because after reading every thread I could find about the DT770, I was just shocked at how harsh they sounded with no-one saying anything at all in that vein and it made me wonder if I don't perceive sound slightly differently.
 
My home system is a NAD T747 with a Hsu Ultra 5.1 system with the ULS-15 sub, and its balance is very pleasing to me. I was warned the Hsus could be bright, but they seem to be reined in by the NAD. Lots of detail, and not a trace of harshness, and those ultra-deep lows.

the dt770 is v shaped meaning it has exaggerated treble and bass response. Also that treble exaggeration might not be something you're used to if you were coming from a speaker setup, especially since they sit further away so should be less fatiguing 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 

Sony just has a too diverse product line and they don't separate service lines. Any other audio brand apart from those with equally diverse lines (ex Sennheiser, AKG, etc) you can waltz into a dealer and they can look into importing what the distributor though they couldn't move.

  The Sennheiser HD 598 CS looks pretty decent. These are for the office, so something I wouldn't mind losing to theft too much holds an appeal. Nothing's been stolen before, but I wouldn't like to lose some $300 cans.
 
It also meets a few criteria - good isolation, big bass and fully circumaural. Replaceable cable is nice.
Something aimed at studios in terms of durability would be a plus, as well as something from an established brand with widely-available replacement pads. I realise though that studio cans tend to emphasise unpleasantness so it can be dialled out of mixes.
 
So, to further specify:

1. Cheap-ish (<$200)
2. Very relaxed, gentle sound with very deep, rumbly but not boneheaded "thumping" bass and a bit of air in the treble. I'm very sensitive to the 3-8 kHz band and so forward-sounding phones are a no-no. I tend to get this shrieking/ringing staticky sound in my ears with forward phones. I'm a fussy baby.
3. Good isolation for the office (courtesy to co-workers)
4. Fully circumaural and comfortable
5. Replaceable cable and pads big bonus but not essential - a "commodity" product like the DT 770 would be the best if the DT 770 didn't take a cheesegrater to my eardrums every time the electric guitars kicked in.

 
 
If you can find it, and you want a cheap headphone that you'll leave at your work desk, there's Superlux HD660 and then use it with an EQ app like Equalizer APO (global Windows effect). $60, use EQ to trim the midrange-treble region, closed back, takes Beyer earpads.

 

[harry501501]

I'm pretty treble sensitive too, but i still like hearing what should be there in the highs and I don't like missing out on detail (top to bottom), i want to hear as close to possible (and within a budget) what was meant to be heard.
 
I also bought pairs that were meant to be non fatiguing that were like broken glass to my ears. Over time though I found some reviewers that described sound the way i heard it. BUT... you still need a bit of luck.
 
IMO, as I said, you don't have to put the same level of volume into the MT220s as the SPHs and you still hear MORE. Treble wise they are of a VERY similar level, just the MT220s are tighter and more accurate, more natural sounding. Bass goes deeper in the Mt220s but shares similar resolution (the SPHs may not have a lot of bass, but the bass they have is a very good standard).
 
Mids are positioned quite similar in the head space, both have great width and air. You will be able to drive the MT220s much better than the harder to drive SPHs, so don't need AMPs (although they always help on all headphones).
 
Me personally... I'm still quite surprised how similar they both are still.

 

[Ladyfingers]

  the dt770 is v shaped meaning it has exaggerated treble and bass response. Also that treble exaggeration might not be something you're used to if you were coming from a speaker setup, especially since they sit further away so should be less fatiguing 

Thing is it's not the treble as such. I papered them with 3, 4 and then 5 sheets and it removed all the upper treble but did nothing to reduce the shrieking from guitars. I used the foobar EQ to see what frequency was killing my ears and it was in the 1.8 - 5 kHz range (presence band?). At those frequencies I experience genuine pain from these things. It feels like someone is taking a dentist's drill to my skull.

 

[harry501501]

 
Thing is it's not the treble as such. I papered them with 3, 4 and then 5 sheets and it removed all the upper treble but did nothing to reduce the shrieking from guitars. I used the foobar EQ to see what frequency was killing my ears and it was in the 1.8 - 5 kHz range (presence band?). At those frequencies I experience genuine pain from these things. It feels like someone is taking a dentist's drill to my skull.

I had the same issue with the Soundmagic HP150. Those things made my ears bleed, even after i EQ the hell out of them... which i hate doing tbh. Don't get me started on Grado sr80e lol.

 

[harry501501]

 

 

Sony just has a too diverse product line and they don't separate service lines. Any other audio brand apart from those with equally diverse lines (ex Sennheiser, AKG, etc) you can waltz into a dealer and they can look into importing what the distributor though they couldn't move.
 
 
If you can find it, and you want a cheap headphone that you'll leave at your work desk, there's Superlux HD660 and then use it with an EQ app like Equalizer APO (global Windows effect). $60, use EQ to trim the midrange-treble region, closed back, takes Beyer earpads.

I struggled with the HD681 Evo's treble, although I'm not that sure how close they sound to 660?!

 

[Ladyfingers]

  I had the same issue with the Soundmagic HP150. Those things made my ears bleed, even after i EQ the hell out of them... which i hate doing tbh. Don't get me started on Grado sr80e lol.

I almost wonder if certain ears don't get standing waves in them or something. 
 
I do like the bass on them, though. Those old SHP805s weren't amazing but I could feel the lows nicely with them and the DT770 annihilates them.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry501501 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I struggled with the HD681 Evo's treble, although I'm not that sure how close they sound to 660?!

 

That's why I said,

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac /img/forum/go_quote.gif

If you can find it, and you want a cheap headphone that you'll leave at your work desk, there's Superlux HD660 and then use it with an EQ app like Equalizer APO (global Windows effect). $60, use EQ to trim the midrange-treble region, closed back, takes Beyer earpads.

 

Also one reason why I brought it up now is the concern about leaving it in the office (initially I thought you'd bring it home daily, like if you had a large enough bike messenger bag or backpack for daily use). This is something you can leave there and not really cry if someone takes it, but unlike the 681, it's closed back.

 

I have a profile for the HD330 on my work computer (using an Ibasso D-Zero as a DAC) on Equalizer APO, but it's tuned to flatten out the upper bass peaks. If you want to trim the treble and get some more low bass, do these:
20hz - +2dB

25hz - +2dB

31.5hz - +2dB

2500hz - -3dB

4000hz - -4dB

5000hz - -4dB

6300hz - -6dB

8000hz - -4dB

10000hz - -4dB