[Atriya]

Which would you choose between a (Schiit) Valhalla 2 and a (Schiit) Lyr+ for the 2022 Utopia, for someone looking to dip toes into tube amps? Both have a low gain mode, which maybe the Utopia benefits from.

I already have a great DAC with a great solid-state amp built in, so I don't need the Lyr's ability to work in solid state mode (i.e. sans tube).

Looking for an expansive & possibly "tubey" sound to complement my solid-state DAC/amp.

 

[chrisnyc75]

Which would you choose between a (Schiit) Valhalla 2 and a (Schiit) Lyr+ for the 2022 Utopia, for someone looking to dip toes into tube amps? Both have a low gain mode, which maybe the Utopia benefits from.

I already have a great DAC with a great solid-state amp built in, so I don't need the Lyr's ability to work in solid state mode (i.e. sans tube).

Looking for an expansive & possibly "tubey" sound to complement my solid-state DAC/amp.

I have both Valhalla & Lyr and Utopia. Both work fine with Utopia, but while Valhalla is a very special pairing with certain headphones, I generally think Lyr suits Utopia better. Valhalla softens the transients that make Utopia so special a little bit more than Lyr does, so if that's what you're looking for then Valhalla might be the choice for you. Personally, I like to lean in to what Utopia does best, not balance it out. YMMV.

 

[Atriya]

I have both Valhalla & Lyr and Utopia. Both work fine with Utopia, but while Valhalla is a very special pairing with certain headphones, I generally think Lyr suits Utopia better. Valhalla softens the transients that make Utopia so special a little bit more than Lyr does, so if that's what you're looking for then Valhalla might be the choice for you. Personally, I like to lean in to what Utopia does best, not balance it out. YMMV.

It's great to hear from someone who owns all 3! Thanks a lot!

I got the Valhalla, but I'm using it as a preamp, feeding into a solid state headphone amp (Burson Soloist 3XP for now, but I'll be getting the newly released Schiit Syn).

This is my attempt to somehow get the tube characteristics of the Valhalla, while also driving from an SS amp. So far I like the sound.

 

[shaylin3]

Is dave still one of the best solid state headphone amplifiers with utopia2022?

 

[Atriya]

Is dave still one of the best solid state headphone amplifiers with utopia2022?

My understanding is that the DAVE's headphone out is good but not great. I have come across people who prefer the headphone out of the Hugo TT 2 over the DAVE (while maintaining that the DAVE is far superior as a DAC).

 

[number1sixerfan]

Is dave still one of the best solid state headphone amplifiers with utopia2022?

I have done extensive testing with the OG Utopia and the Nutopia. I would absolutely say no (but strictly if we're talking "best", ultimately they are easy to power adequately). The Dave's headphone output is solid and a convenience. And if you aren't looking to spend money, it's good enough to use alone.

But with both the OG and 2022, the results were very consistent with a better, external amp added--better bass impact and subbass overall, with a fuller sound. I have spent maybe 30 or so hours altogether comparing this, as everyone in the Dave thread just keep affirming that the headphone amp was perfect. Again, good enough to enjoy, but the Utopia is quite a bit better overall with a better standalone amp. Btw, the amps I tried were the WA33 and Eddie Current Studio B, along with a few speaker amps carefully.

Edit: for what it's worth, I do think the 2022 pairs a bit better with the Dave than the older OG model due to the tuning.

 

[shaylin3]

The price of WA33 and Eddie Current Studio B is too high for me. Does anyone recommend a price around 3K? Or is it better to continue to use DAVE output at this price?

 

[helljudgement]

Does anyone recommend a price around 3K?

DNA Starlett is one of the best options for the original Utopia regardless of price points. Long wait times so try to find one second hand.

The price of WA33 and Eddie Current Studio B is too high for me.

Not sure if you can still get a Studio B new but I do recall it being sold for around 3.2k. Add a pair of 300b tubes, it's more like a 4k amp. It is my favorite amp for the original Utopia and I do see them popped up used so might be worth looking second hand as well.

 

[shaylin3]

Solid-state headphone amplifiers seem to be less recommended?

 

[Sonic Defender]

Is dave still one of the best solid state headphone amplifiers with utopia2022?

Audio myth at work perhaps. Are you perhaps getting caught in the trap thinking that the more expensive and boutique a product it is, it must have something special about it? Any amplifier that is competently designed, has inaudible distortion and can provide enough power for the dynamic swings the music and SPL you listen at requires is enough. So in the case of the Utopia, you can probably find several amps that are under $400 that are more than adequate. The idea that there is special sounding power from more expensive amplifiers has absolutely no evidence base in the realm of physics.

 

[jamesjames]

It seems to me that it's not quite fair to launch into 'audio myth' territory here. The question, in one sense, is always whether a particular amp is good enough to give the best possible result with particular phones. Granted, there may in theory be many amps which fit the bill, and prices may vary enormously. Nevertheless, to ask on a forum like this for impressions from readers on which amps have given good results - well, that seems to me like a very sensible thing to do.

 

[shaylin3]

Audio myth at work perhaps. Are you perhaps getting caught in the trap thinking that the more expensive and boutique a product it is, it must have something special about it? Any amplifier that is competently designed, has inaudible distortion and can provide enough power for the dynamic swings the music and SPL you listen at requires is enough. So in the case of the Utopia, you can probably find several amps that are under $400 that are more than adequate. The idea that there is special sounding power from more expensive amplifiers has absolutely no evidence base in the realm of physics.

I know the truth but my ears don't say so,It's also possible that I misunderstood.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I know the truth but my ears don't say so,It's also possible that I misunderstood.

It is funny to say this in this setting, but really, you can't trust your ears. Well you could, if they were the only part of yourself that was truly involved in this type of decision, but as I am pretty confident you already know, conditioning is at play. It is very hard to accept that the mega expensive box with all of the technical jargon and discussion about inaudible parameters isn't better than the much less expensive, perfectly adequate one. We fear that there is that ever so slight secret sauce that we are missing, then because in truth we want to purchase the exotic, probably more beautiful to look at and play with mega buck product, we start the process of filtering out what we don't want to hear, that we don't need to waste all that money for no audible benefit, a position clearly demonstrated by scientific evidence, and start focusing on what we want to hear because it confirms our true desire.

Once we are there and now filtering out the evidence that challenges our desire, we now can completely focus on the subjective evidence only. Before you know it, you plunk down the huge money, and what a surprise, you start to hear what everybody who did what you did hears. There is no reason in the realm of physics that the Utopia 2022 cannot be driven to absolute, and perfect audible transparency with many quite affordable amps paired with an equally affordable DAC in the chain. That is all I was saying. I am not saying there are not other reasons to buy mega buck products, there are, and everybody has to decide what they want for themselves, but along the way we shouldn't assume that the laws of physics have suddenly been rendered moot. It is ok to want what we want, just because we want it.

 

[Roasty]

if everyone was of sound mind, we'd all just have a topping a90 and a d90, with canare interconnects and stock cables and call it a day. how boring would that be?

 

[number1sixerfan]

The price of WA33 and Eddie Current Studio B is too high for me. Does anyone recommend a price around 3K? Or is it better to continue to use DAVE output at this price?

I was just mentioning that, that's what I compared to the Dave's amplifier. You don't need a $10k amplifier for the Utopia, they are very easy to power. But again I would say, imho, it is worth using an amp behind the Dave for sure. Around that price range, I would probably look at the Ferrum stack or something similar.

Also for the recent conversation about price and sonic differences, I just recently compared the $1.2k GSX Mini (which I have a lot of love for), compared to the EC and my speaker amps, and pretty big difference lol. Very easily discernible, and the Mini has quite a bit of power. I do fully agree that ultimately we pay a premium for our toys, but I simply cannot agree with anyone that suggests that we shouldn't use our ears to judge or that major differences don't exist beyond certain price points. Again, the trap of more $$$ = better certainly exists, but I just cannot agree when I know my ears are reliable.