[up late]

ok

 

[Sonic Defender]

I'd go further. In addition to differences between the performance of amps (which affects their sound), there are differences between the technical characteristics of headphones which, in turn, affects the performance of amps. In short, with headphones more than many other transducers, it's the combination of phones and amp that needs to be considered by the buyer. No amp is perfect. Some work better with high impedance phones. Some are better at delivering current. Some are great if they don't need to deliver high SPLs, but not otherwise. Whether a particular amp will perform well in a particular system is the real question. And that's a very sensible question for potential buyers - with real systems - to consider.

Beware the self-appointed expert.

In an effort to avoid repeating my mistake and posting OT here I will send you my reply via PM so that the thread is respected.

 

[up late]

i finally got around to listening to the 'nutopia' today at a local hi fi dealer where i also listened to the final audio d8000 pro and hifiman susvara. all three headphones were connected to the burson conductor 3r via the balanced headphone socket, which was in turn connected to a hi fi rose streamer (sorry but i didn't take note of the model). i listened to a selection of my usual test tracks that were available on tidal.

before i comment on the nutopia's sound, i'll touch on its design and build quality. i don't regard its appearance as an improvement over the previous iteration. i prefer the look of the 'og' utopia tbh but to each his own. some folks have commented that the nutopia is better built than its predecessor because it feels more solid. the nutopia's recycled carbon fiber yokes do feel more rigid than the og's, which flex and can creak. other than that, the nutopia didn't look or feel better built than the og to me - ymmv.

as i didn't compare them side by side, i have to rely on my memory of how the nutopia sounded, which is not ideal but it is what it is. that said, i am listening to the og as i type and am pleased to hear that the sparkle is back. the nutopia's treble sounded somewhat attenuated compared to both the susvara and d8000 pro to my ears, with the d8000 pro sounding quite bright. i've also read impressions from folks saying that the nutopia's bass is more textured than the og but that wasn't my experience. nor did it sound any more open or spacious than the og to me, which could be expected given that the cable connectors have been moved from the grille to the ear cup frame. so as an og owner, i feel no need to 'upgrade'.

 

[jamesjames]

i finally got around to listening to the 'nutopia' today at a local hi fi dealer where i also listened to the final audio d8000 pro and hifiman susvara. all three headphones were connected to the burson conductor 3r via the balanced headphone socket, which was in turn connected to a hi fi rose streamer (sorry but i didn't take note of the model). i listened to a selection of my usual test tracks that were available on tidal.

before i comment on the nutopia's sound, i'll touch on its design and build quality. i don't regard its appearance as an improvement over the previous iteration but to each his own. some folks have commented that the nutopia is better built than its predecessor because it feels more solid. the recycled carbon fiber yokes do feel more rigid than the 'og' utopia, which flex and can creak. other than that, the nutopia didn't look or feel better built than the og to me - ymmv.

as i didn't compare them side by side, i have to rely on my memory of how the nutopia sounded, which is not ideal but it is what it is. that said, i am listening to the og as i type and am pleased to hear that the sparkle is back. the nutopia's treble sounded somewhat attenuated compared to the susvara and d8000 pro to my ears, with the d8000 pro sounding treble tilted and bright. i've also read impressions from folks saying that the nutopia's bass is more textured than the og but that hasn't been my experience. nor did it sound any more open or spacious than the og to me, which could be expected given that the cable connectors have been moved from the grill to the ear cup frames. so as an og owner, i feel no need to 'upgrade'.

My own experience comparing the new and the old was identical - and would agree also re the Susvara. I've not really heard the D8000.

Edit: amps used were Moon 430HA and Phonitor xe; cables were balanced; source was Marantz SA10.

 

[texx2818]

Just got my shiny new pair of Utopias. So far, big fan!

 

[edstrelow]

I have been off for some time from these forums for some time now. Essentially I got what I needed some years back when I delved into the problems of headshell and speaker cabinet resonance, and got some good answers, namely they need a lot of damping. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/ I use sorbothane but other materials are also available. However I am currently visiting a friend in the UK who has invested heavily in his gear including the Utopia, Naim Unit Atom, Dave, 1,000 pound interconnects etc. and had listen to what some regard as an ultimate phone. My opinion, good but harsh sounding treble as is just about any phone or speaker where the case/cabinet is not well damped. I am sure I can make the focals significantly better but I didn't bring my supplies with me. Since I have well-damped Stax SR-007's at home, I see no need to go into dynamics.

The Brits seem a bit better on damping than Americans, possibly because of the influence of the old BBC monitors which had extensive damping according to my sources. My friend's speakers are Harbeth 30.2 which the company claims are heavily damped although the company does not disclose with what. Naim which my friend is heavily into has made a fetish of damping its circuits, cables etc.

As regards the Dave/Naim/Utopia combination there is certainly no denying that this is a quality system. It still sounds somewhat harsh compared to my comparison laptop travelling phones, Sony MDR-ZX110 with fair hunks of sorbothane glued on with a Lord industrial glue and wrapped in electric tape to make them a constrained damping setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained-layer_damping. The Sony's cost the princely sum of $10.00 the sorb and glue probably trebled the price (the glue is $35/half pint). The Sony's are somewhat muddy in the lower/mid bass but you can't get everything for ten bucks. Imaging and soundfield are about the same.

I suggest that if you really care for quality sound rather than massaging your egos with discussions about owning costly gear you might want to look into this.

 

[texx2818]

I have been off for some time from these forums for some time now. Essentially I got what I needed some years back when I delved into the problems of headshell and speaker cabinet resonance, and got some good answers, namely they need a lot of damping. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/ I use sorbothane but other materials are also available. However I am currently visiting a friend in the UK who has invested heavily in his gear including the Utopia, Naim Unit Atom, Dave, 1,000 pound interconnects etc. and had listen to what some regard as an ultimate phone. My opinion, good but harsh sounding treble as is just about any phone or speaker where the case/cabinet is not well damped. I am sure I can make the focals significantly better but I didn't bring my supplies with me. Since I have well-damped Stax SR-007's at home, I see no need to go into dynamics.

The Brits seem a bit better on damping than Americans, possibly because of the influence of the old BBC monitors which had extensive damping according to my sources. My friend's speakers are Harbeth 30.2 which the company claims are heavily damped although the company does not disclose with what. Naim which my friend is heavily into has made a fetish of damping its circuits, cables etc.

As regards the Dave/Naim/Utopia combination there is certainly no denying that this is a quality system. It still sounds somewhat harsh compared to my comparison laptop travelling phones, Sony MDR-ZX110 with fair hunks of sorbothane glued on with a Lord industrial glue and wrapped in electric tape to make them a constrained damping setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained-layer_damping. The Sony's cost the princely sum of $10.00 the sorb and glue probably trebled the price (the glue is $35/half pint). The Sony's are somewhat muddy in the lower/mid bass but you can't get everything for ten bucks. Imaging and soundfield are about the same.

I suggest that if you really care for quality sound rather than massaging your egos with discussions about owning costly gear you might want to look into this.

Agreed, we should all walk around with duct taped headphones on.

 

[edstrelow]

I have stayed off because you get tired of arguing with idiots.

 

[jamesjames]

I have been off for some time from these forums for some time now. Essentially I got what I needed some years back when I delved into the problems of headshell and speaker cabinet resonance, and got some good answers, namely they need a lot of damping. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dam...s-with-sorbothane-and-other-materials.744839/ I use sorbothane but other materials are also available. However I am currently visiting a friend in the UK who has invested heavily in his gear including the Utopia, Naim Unit Atom, Dave, 1,000 pound interconnects etc. and had listen to what some regard as an ultimate phone. My opinion, good but harsh sounding treble as is just about any phone or speaker where the case/cabinet is not well damped. I am sure I can make the focals significantly better but I didn't bring my supplies with me. Since I have well-damped Stax SR-007's at home, I see no need to go into dynamics.

The Brits seem a bit better on damping than Americans, possibly because of the influence of the old BBC monitors which had extensive damping according to my sources. My friend's speakers are Harbeth 30.2 which the company claims are heavily damped although the company does not disclose with what. Naim which my friend is heavily into has made a fetish of damping its circuits, cables etc.

As regards the Dave/Naim/Utopia combination there is certainly no denying that this is a quality system. It still sounds somewhat harsh compared to my comparison laptop travelling phones, Sony MDR-ZX110 with fair hunks of sorbothane glued on with a Lord industrial glue and wrapped in electric tape to make them a constrained damping setup. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrained-layer_damping. The Sony's cost the princely sum of $10.00 the sorb and glue probably trebled the price (the glue is $35/half pint). The Sony's are somewhat muddy in the lower/mid bass but you can't get everything for ten bucks. Imaging and soundfield are about the same.

I suggest that if you really care for quality sound rather than massaging your egos with discussions about owning costly gear you might want to look into this.

I sympathize with some of the thinking here. But I wonder whether it might be a bit reductivist. I too have some cheap Sony's that I like - the MDR MA900 - which I picked up for a couple of hundred dollars used. No duct tape I'm afraid, but pretty good nonetheless. In fact, I prefer them to the Utopia which I've owned (twice) and, as I've noted above, I think the new Utopia is less engaging than the old. But I would have to admit that, while the Sony imaging and balance appeals to me in ways no Focal ever will, the Utopia is tremendously good in some other respects - better than the Sony I think. The unremarkable point, I suppose, is that we become ever more discriminating (fixated? obsessive?) in relation to the particular qualities that appeal - and this drives the search for the next thing. There's a place for healthy scepticism on this site - but the more tolerant the better I think - for all of us.

 

[paradoxper]

I have stayed off because you get tired of arguing with idiots.

You could just stay off. You enjoy harping.

 

[jz520]

I use my Cayin C9 with Mojo 2/Poly. It’s outstanding with the Diana V2. I have to try it out with my new Hugo 2/2GO.

Hi how was the pairing of the Hugo2/C9/V2? Thanks

 

[Spawn300Z]

It’s outstanding. This portable solution works well for most headphones.

This setup provides great detail, transparency and bass. Also great with the Utopia 22 although don’t need all that power.

 

[jz520]

It’s outstanding. This portable solution works well for most headphones.

This setup provides great detail, transparency and bass. Also great with the Utopia 22 although don’t need all that power.

Thank You! i was thinking of getting the DTC but i think ill be fine with the V2 now..

 

[Tanalasta]

Agreed ... The Hugo2 whilst a very accomplished DAC for size and technically excellent does not have a great power output/amp. So whilst Utopia is easy to drive, there is the usual improvement in dynamics especially if you are using the 4.4mm output from a C9. I use a PWA RCA adapter for the Hugo2 to create a 4.4mm output from the Hugo2 and plug it into the C9.

That said, it's not strictly necessary. Whilst I appreciate reading about the technical aspects, I'm not a sound engineer. It's simply "how does it sound" - the end outcome that is important to me. I'm more likely to plug the Oriolus Trailii into the hugo2/C9 chain than the Utopia.

I concur that when auditioning the Nutopia v the original ; there were subtle sonic differences. A tad more weight in the Nutopia. This is based on a faint, distant audio memory. But from a sonic perspective, it was more nuance than a need to upgrade. So I didn't do so.

 

[jz520]

Am i better off using the 4.4 PWA adapter than just using the Audioquest(cable) RCA output from the H2 goin to 3.5 in the C9? Sorry bout this newbie question just starting with this hobby…Thanks