New denafrips DDC (Iris and Gaia)

[BzzzzzT]

Do you have a decibel meter? The Iris / Pontus combo (i2s) is incredibly resolving, with very little noise or distortion. It can be hard to judge volume just by listening if your previous system wasn’t as resolving. Ringing in the ears is usually a sign of listening too loud. I found this happened to me when I upgraded everything recently. By using a decibel meter I was able to find a safe listening level (and determine I was listening at unsafe levels for extended periods, but initially to my ears it did not sound louder than my previous DAC /Amp)

I do have a decibel meter. It's a good point to make, but is not applicable to this situation. It is at both low and high volume. I also know others who have the same issue. I have had two Arcam DACs in the past and an RME ADI-2. I also have two other DACs in my studio; a Focuswright and Steinberg A/D converter and both have DACs for playback. I know the Focuswright has an AKM in it.

The Iris brought the problem to the chain. My Pontus 2 had no issues with this and performs better than all my other DACs with i2s until the Iris was introduced. The Douk audio i2s fixed it. It also sounds better timbre wise with the same quality of the Iris and slightly better dynamics. I am also running a low noise power wart from ifi with it. This suggests that the Iris is developing some harmonic distortion. I also get this with different sample rates. It's worse with higher ones, but this is also because they often develop harmonics above the Nyquist rate due to the added frequency information. I will have to try putting my old somewhat functional oscilloscope on the signal to check. It brought horrible pain to my ears and tinnitus which I have never had issues with. I decided to warn others after I noticed other posts with the same problem and people selling their setup because of it. I also have the problem when I run correction software to give a flat frequency response like Sonarworks. There seems to be nothing wrong with the Iris function wise. It seems to be a problem in how it was implemented.

I was wondering if anyone had the issue. It makes volume much more fatiguing and sensitive in a way no other equipment I have used in the past has done. I really love Denafrips and their DACs but the Iris was not a good purchase for me.

 

[BzzzzzT]

Ringing in the ears is usually a sign of listening too loud. I found this happened to me when I upgraded everything recently. By using a decibel meter I was able to find a safe listening level (and determine I was listening at unsafe levels for extended periods, but initially to my ears it did not sound louder than my previous DAC /Amp)

It sounds like your having the same problem. On any good audio equipment you should be able to listen at high sound pressure levels within reason and not have ear ringing. I do not get this even when rocking out and I have had my hearing checked. I have high quality equipment. Often people fuss with cables and stuff down the chain when it was not implemented correctly in the first place.

 

[BzzzzzT]

BTW. This is the device I used that fixed the problem. Don't judge it by the price. It is a quality DDC. Your just reclocking the signal to send to the DAC. I am now a bit leery of these over-built DDCs. I did buy a power supply for it from ifi.

DOUK i2s

 

[sajunky]

m now using a $60 Douk i2s and that works amazingly well and causes no fatigue and I feel sounds even better. I really like my Pontus 2. But the DDC seems to cause harmonics above the Nyquist rate that are VERY bad. I'm not picking up any distortion and the signal sounds fine.

Iris do not add harmonic distortions, as it passes digital datastream. It can add jitter and our ears are more sensitive to jitter than harmonic distortions. Did you try both S/PDIF and I2S connections?

It is strange that U2 Pro fixes the problem, it only shows there is something wrong with Iris. You can try other DDCs like Audio GD DI-20HE and other. I own Douk Audio, it does a job redirecting ground loops when paired with good power supply (which you do), but it has no comparison with a real DDC.

 

[BzzzzzT]

Iris do not add harmonic distortions, as it passes digital datastream. It can add jitter and our ears are more sensitive to jitter than harmonic distortions. Did you try both S/PDIF and I2S connections?

It is strange that U2 Pro fixes the problem, it only shows there is something wrong with Iris. You can try other DDCs like Audio GD DI-20HE and other. I own Douk Audio, it does a job redirecting ground loops when paired with good power supply (which you do), but it has no comparison with a real DDC.

You are correct. The Iris is not causing harmonic distortion. It could be causing jitter. The Pontus 2 is the cause of the harmonics and maybe possibly jitter, but the root is the Iris. So on a technical level it is not the root cause but it is the driver of the distortion. I have not tried other cables. The maker should build their device correctly. Trying to fix something that was not engineered correctly or has faults by changing cables is not productive IMO. It was a $600 dollar DDC. It should not have this problem and I should not have to play with cables. This is why pro audio makes fun of audiophiles and the companies that cater to them. Other people are having this problem so it's not just me.

We will have to agree to disagree on the point of having a subjectively "real DDC." The Iris is a real DDC and the U2 does it just as well. Also the U2 is better than the more expensive Amanero. Where does it all end. There is no real advantage to the Iris over the U2 Pro and I seriously doubt the other two higher end models costing many times more. These devices just reclock signals and send it to the DAC. I find these DDCs to be basically overbuilt to do something that does not need all these components. If you spend large amounts of money it must be better. Right? Where does it all end. Apparently with your pocket book. Your just reclocking and pushing tiny voltages representing 1s and 0s. The ifi wall wort for my U2 has 1uV of noise for power. The Iris and the others I doubt comes even close as they have a linear power supply. Your not doing some complex conversion or driving an impedance coupled load. I'm not buying it and neither are my ears. DDCs are not snake oil but I don't see any advantage to these more expensive options. Just my view on this. I do think this is something that should be discussed.

I don't mean to sound argumentative or attack other's purchases. I just have recently come to the conclusion that these expensive DDCs are an overbuilt waste of money and if they do provide any minor improvement they are not apparent at audio frequencies. Save the money and spend it on a better amp and DAC. I suppose to some having a cheap device in the chain feeding an expensive DAC, amp and speaker/headphones will be emotionally divisive especially when there are more expensive devices that always state they improve things irrespective of reality. People tend to trust the brand. It's the nature of things.

 

[shwnwllms]

Other people are having this problem so it's not just me.

Any links to these reports of these issues? I can’t find any and I’m sure Alvin would like the opportunity to address them if they exist.

 

[BzzzzzT]

I was just talking with another guy on the microZOTL 3 thread about it yesterday and thought I would check here to see if others are having this issue. I'll try to find the others later. I'm not saying the Iris does not sound good. But it definitely has harshness and causes serious fatigue and hurts my ears. I do absolutely love my Pontus 2.

microZOTL 3

 

[BzzzzzT]

Any links to these reports of these issues? I can’t find any and I’m sure Alvin would like the opportunity to address them if they exist.

The thing is Denafrips has no return policy. It technically works fine and if I sent it back all I will be told is the device functions fine. Plus I'm not paying the costly shipping to send it back to Singapore or China. I don't know what Alvin is going to do. He can't do anything because of their policy. Because these companies have these policies and this equipment is expensive, it's important people know if something does not work well, because you will be stuck in a similar situation as me. What am I to do. I could not have returned it even if I wanted to. I feel the critique is justified because of this. I know I was taking a gamble on this. I accept that.

 

[CAJames]

...It technically works fine and if I sent it back all I will be told is the device functions fine.....What am I to do.

If it "works fine" I don't think you'll have any problem selling it and getting most of your money back.

 

[BzzzzzT]

If it "works fine" I don't think you'll have any problem selling it and getting most of your money back.

I plan to do that. The Iris probably works fine in many instances for many people with their equipment so I don't want to sound like a mean person or like I am trying to start some kind of flame war. I am a little miffed that this issue is with their own product and I am probably venting a little. It's hard to be critical of a product by a company that makes other products that you love. I feel so torn...

 

[S Crowther]

I plan to do that. The Iris probably works fine in many instances for many people with their equipment so I don't want to sound like a mean person or like I am trying to start some kind of flame war. I am a little miffed that this issue is with their own product and I am probably venting a little. It's hard to be critical of a product by a company that makes other products that you love. I feel so torn...

I have the Iris connected by i2s to the T+ and then to the Artemis head amp. No problems. I previously used the Singxter SU-6 also connected by i2s. The Iris was a big improvement.

 

[BzzzzzT]

I have the Iris connected by i2s to the T+ and then to the Artemis head amp. No problems. I previously used the Singxter SU-6 also connected by i2s. The Iris was a big improvement.

Good to hear! I don't know why it's having issues with my Pontus and why it gives me so many problems with my hearing. It can't be that bad, as others have liked it and it's quite well built, like all of Denafrip's equipment. I found it made a big improvement in both detail, separation and dynamics. There has to be some issue with how it interacts with the Pontus and why some others have had issues. I have no clue why my other DDC works fine for extended listening with no hearing issues.

 

[shwnwllms]

It sounds like your having the same problem. On any good audio equipment you should be able to listen at high sound pressure levels within reason and not have ear ringing. I do not get this even when rocking out and I have had my hearing checked. I have high quality equipment. Often people fuss with cables and stuff down the chain when it was not implemented correctly in the first place.

I just reviewed my i2s pinout configuration, both Mode 2 and Mode 3 worked for both redbook and hi-res files with L and R channels in proper configuration. The difference between the two being phase. I'm using a Wireworld Silver Sphere, so for me Mode 2 was out of phase, while Mode 3 was in phase (in other words I was listening to music out of phase, and oversampling to DSD256 in HQP). I'm pretty sure this is the cause of what I was experiencing, sounds like its the same issue with your setup. I suggest going back through the i2s configuration. Here is a chart to assist, you can always reach out to Alvin as well if you can't get it squared away.

https://www.denafrips.com/config-pontus

 

[BzzzzzT]

Thank

I just reviewed my i2s pinout configuration, both Mode 2 and Mode 3 worked for both redbook and hi-res files with L and R channels in proper configuration. The difference between the two being phase. I'm using a Wireworld Silver Sphere, so for me Mode 2 was out of phase, while Mode 3 was in phase (in other words I was listening to music out of phase, and oversampling to DSD256 in HQP). I'm pretty sure this is the cause of what I was experiencing, sounds like its the same issue with your setup. I suggest going back through the i2s configuration. Here is a chart to assist, you can always reach out to Alvin as well if you can't get it squared away.

https://www.denafrips.com/config-pontus

Thanks I'll try this. I really appreciate it! I will try this soon

 

[shwnwllms]

The manual says nothing about phase in relation to i2s. These people really need to spend more than a few hours writing their manuals. Denafrips if you read this, check out RME's DAC manuals. That is how to write a proper manual for audio equipment. You should not have to find this out on some internet forum. Geeeez!

You can’t fault Denafrips for this, there is no standard for i2s cables so every manufacturer is different. I applaud Denafrips for coming up with a solution and allowing a more robust programming feature than most manufacturers. Plus their customer service is 2nd to none.