[Denkmal]

Part of my point lol...the nicer headphones tend to be way less forgiving to crap masters. Sometimes that is good sometimes that is bad lol depending on how crap your fav artists masters are.

Well yes but there are ”high end” and nice headphones that are less sensitive to this. I have a pair of open Hifimans that actually are able to make old rock enjoyable whilst still sound awesome on good modern masters.

 

[angelom]

Is the sound quality good considering its a Bluetooth closed-back headphones or good in general? How does it compare to open-back headphones? Could it rival the sound of wired open-back headphones priced at 500 euros or dollars, for example?

Isn't easy answering your questions because we have several variables for trying giving good AND factual, honest answers for your questions. But here are some comments, anyway.

Probably the more important variable is this: The absolutely incredible amount of exaggeration so many people using in audio forums. Comments about how much better is wired than wireless, how much better is lossless than lossy, how fantastic is hi-res vs redbook files, how very much better the sound is if you using an amp, a DAC, this or that expensive cable, or this or that DAP, etc., etc. And some more, even obscure, variables...and people throwing BIG pronouncements and making MASSIVE generalisations so easily. This is why I saying in one post more early that is (very) difficult finding reliable and truly credible reviewers.

For me, one CRITICAL aspect is tonal balance. Then, after good tonal balance, how the headphone is capable of reproducing sound (meaning: technical abilities).

Fo me the iO-12, for being a closed-back headphone, is impressive in the open way is presenting the sound. For me, the sound isn't only excellent for a bluetooth headphone, but for a good headphone in general.

I don't hearing all 500 EUR open back headphones, but I can telling you that the Dali team creating a headphone that, in my opinion, will sounding better than several 500-1000 EUR wired-only headphones... and maybe some that are more expensive even.

 

[Dalmonegrig]

Fo me the iO-12, for being a closed-back headphone, is impressive in the open way is presenting the sound. For me, the sound isn't only excellent for a bluetooth headphone, but for a good headphone in general.

I see on your list DALI iO-12 and Mark Levinson 5909.
Will you keep both (iO-12 + 5909) or will one of them leave?

Thank you for the information.

 

[angelom]

I see on your list DALI iO-12 and Mark Levinson 5909.
Will you keep both (iO-12 + 5909) or will one of them leave?

Thank you for the information.

After I buying the very excellent Solitaire T in November last year, I immediately start trying selling my 5909 here in head-fi, but I think the price is very high for some people. I receiving several offers from people new in head-fi with no buying/selling transactions history, so I always saying "Sorry, no" because I don't want risking possible PayPal claim and have a scam buyer. But I know I will selling my 5909 soon. The Solitaire T and iO-12 are, without any doubts, the very best BT/ANC headphones. And the ST is having not only phenomenal wireless performance, but impressive wired-only performance too, like NOT any others BT/ANC headphone, including the iO-12.

 

[Maukey]

Good pertinent questions.

I'm using the iO-12 the majority of the time with ANC off, so all my comments about sound quality in my previous post are in this mode. About the differences in sound between ANC off or ANC on, yes, the difference is there, but isn't big like the very big difference in the ML 5909. With ANC on you have a bass boost but isn't strong at all like in the 5909 and some others ANC headphones. The bass boost in the iO-12 is similar like when I'm in ANC off mode and I changing to "bass" mode. So, yes, is clear audible difference but the bass boost isn't strong or so strong that making the iO-12 sounding bad/wrong. For airplane use, specially, this little boost is maybe a good thing because is possibly helping getting better perception of low frequencies in the music.

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a seal issue for me. I didn't want to be incorrect in saying that the Solitaire T has a more consistent sound quality in all modes if it was in fact a seal issue. If you remember, one of my big complaints with the iO-6 was the struggle to get a good seal. It made it impossible for me to listen to it with ANC off because I needed the seal correction. Not the case anymore. I too notice a bass drop with ANC off on the iO-12, but the bass is not anemic with harsh treble as was the case for me with iO-6. As a matter of fact, I think overall I'm preferring the sound with ANC off when noise is not an issue.

 

[angelom]

Thanks. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a seal issue for me. I didn't want to be incorrect in saying that the Solitaire T has a more consistent sound quality in all modes if it was in fact a seal issue. If you remember, one of my big complaints with the iO-6 was the struggle to get a good seal. It made it impossible for me to listen to it with ANC off because I needed the seal correction

Yes, I remember seeing several posts about problems obtaining a good seal with the iO-6 and this, naturally, affecting the sound, like in any headphone or IEM.

Not the case anymore. I too notice a bass drop with ANC off on the iO-12, but the bass is not anemic with harsh treble as was the case for me with iO-6.

I think Dali really looking at their results and feedback of their iO4 and iO6 and analysing and waiting, wisely, several years until developing a genuinely better and different sounding headphone.

As a matter of fact, I think overall I'm preferring the sound with ANC off when noise is not an issue.

You must being very careful that you NOT start becoming a neutral/reference-head, after your appreciation of the ST and the iO-12's sound!

But, seriously now, this 2 headphones offering more that just correct tonal balance that, don't matter what people reading in forums, in a perfect world is ALWAYS best trying in person. BUT the reality is that this isn't possible in so many places and countries, so is always great having people like you trying giving a more honest and objective view (with NO fanboyism) of many different ANC headphones in your excellent ANC comparisons thread.

 

[Dragonmilenario]

From what I'm reading, the wired analog mode is not as good as the BT mode, too bad.

Is the USB mode possible to use it from an iPhone with a lighting connector?

 

[angelom]

From what I'm reading, the wired analog mode is not as good as the BT mode, too bad.

Is the USB mode possible to use it from an iPhone with a lighting connector?

With my iPhone 15 Pro you can having a direct connection from the iO-12 to the iPhone with only a USB-C to USC-C cable, but you must knowing that when this is happening the iPhone will be charging the iO-12 at the same time. (same happening with the ST)

I also trying connecting the iO-12 with my other iPhone (XR) via USB-C to lightning cable. This, like with all others BT/ANC headphones, isn't possible just directly with this cable so you will needing very probably the Apple camera adapter but I don't know for fact this is possible because I don't having this adapter.

 

[rael67]

You need an OTG cable (USB-C to lightning). Then it should work.

 

[Dragonmilenario]

Can anyone indicate what issues or changes in sound occur with a 3.5 mm analog mini-jack cable? Less dynamics, less transparency, or something else?

 

[angelom]

Can anyone indicate what issues or changes in sound occur with a 3.5 mm analog mini-jack cable? Less dynamics, less transparency, or something else?

The sound in fully passive mode with 3.5mm cable is NOT terrible like others BT headphones when the battery dying and you must using a 3.5mm cable. Fully passively the iO-12's sound is more thin, specially with less bass presence, and the treble is missing only little sparkle for improving timbral qualities, for reproducing cymbals, for example. The sound is very listenable, and even enjoyable after few minutes of your ears adapting to the sound, but is needing some EQ work for approaching a similar sound when the headphone is on. The iO-12 in this fully passive mode is responding well to changes in EQ.

Also, in fully passive mode with my 2 iPhones the volume isn't sufficient if you want music playing more loud or for more quiet mastered albums or classical music with quiet passages. But with my 16" MacBook Pro, because is one of the recent models (mine is from 2021) that can now driving headphones with high impedance, the volume isn't a problem at all and you have very sufficient volume remaining for killing your ears.

 

[TomBY]

Well in all the years I use wireless headphones, I never experienced running out of battery while listen to music. The battery life is sufficient to provide enough power capacity for the usual continuous usage. With the tremendous battery life of around 30 hours and even more, I have no concern that I may run out of battery. With the quick charging feature, of many wireless headphone, a fifteen minutes of charge can give you several hours of listening. I haven‘t found in the technical data section, if the IO-12 has a quick charge feature, but I would be surprised, if there isn’t such thing. So, I would only consider wired usage, if I could gain significant sound improvement.
Because my usage of wireless headphones is mostly if not exclusively mobile, the quality of sound in wired mode is of no concern for me. At home, I mostly listen to my speakers in my living room, at my work room, I use my wireless headphone for computer work. In bed I mostly listen music with my excellent Sennheiser IE-900 (wired IEM), because is doesn‘t disturb, when I lie in bed on the side.

Today, we have excellent wireless headphones, with great sound and long battery life. IO-12, PX8, H95, Bathys, and ML 5909, let down mainstream Sony WH XMx and Airpod Max headphones down regarding sound without to much trade off with ANC. As such, we have now really good alternative options. I chose the BW PX8 for comfort, portability, sound, price, design and ANC quality. I am still puzzled, if I should give the IO-12 another test at my local dealer (if it is available), the main reason not to buy it, were size (especially the case) and price.

 

[begor]

A quick update after 25 days of using IO-12.

1. First things first, I've decided to keep them. Now the question whether I should keep PX8
2. Overall sound quality is simply excellent. I often reach for IO-12 even at home, where I have a couple of good wired headphones (e.g. Fostex TH900 MK2, 109 PRO, DCA Aeon 2, ZMF Aeolus). Even if IO-12 was just a wired headphone without ANC, I think it'll be very competitive within 1k EUR market. This was never the case for me with PX8 or Bathys.
3. I was at first cautious about "Hi-Fi" and "correct audio reproduction" claims, because I'm personally not a big Harman enjoyer and prefer a bit more warm sound signature instead of anemic neutrality. However, "anemic" is the last word that comes to my mind while listening to IO-12. They're indeed mostly neutral, but without sounding anemic and lifeless. Also bass levels are just fine. If I want to indulge myself in layers of bass, I'll pick my TH900 MK2
4. Passive connection. Tried a couple of times with different sources (MB Pro jack, Mojo 2, Burson Conductor), too early to tell, but I think it's actually good enough. Maybe a bit less bass dynamics as DSP-driven BT connection, but overall similarly enjoyable.
5. Comfort is also very good. It does not have the same "wait, I was wearing headphones all that time"? effect as e.g. 109 PRO, but IO-12 is still very comfortable.
6. Size. Enormous, unfortunately. Luckily I never wear headphones outside, only APP2/wired IEMs, but if I have to wear headphones outside, IO-12 will not be the one I'd keep. For listening in the office/train/plane I think it's perfectly fine.

 

[angelom]

Well in all the years I use wireless headphones, I never experienced running out of battery while listen to music. The battery life is sufficient to provide enough power capacity for the usual continuous usage. With the tremendous battery life of around 30 hours and even more, I have no concern that I may run out of battery. With the quick charging feature, of many wireless headphone, a fifteen minutes of charge can give you several hours of listening. I haven‘t found in the technical data section, if the IO-12 has a quick charge feature, but I would be surprised, if there isn’t such thing. So, I would only consider wired usage, if I could gain significant sound improvement.
Because my usage of wireless headphones is mostly if not exclusively mobile, the quality of sound in wired mode is of no concern for me. At home, I mostly listen to my speakers in my living room, at my work room, I use my wireless headphone for computer work. In bed I mostly listen music with my excellent Sennheiser IE-900 (wired IEM), because is doesn‘t disturb, when I lie in bed on the side.

Today, we have excellent wireless headphones, with great sound and long battery life. IO-12, PX8, H95, Bathys, and ML 5909, let down mainstream Sony WH XMx and Airpod Max headphones down regarding sound without to much trade off with ANC. As such, we have now really good alternative options. I chose the BW PX8 for comfort, portability, sound, price, design and ANC quality. I am still puzzled, if I should give the IO-12 another test at my local dealer (if it is available), the main reason not to buy it, were size (especially the case) and price.

You are missing the point completely. Using the 3.5mm cable if the battery dying is a very secondary reason for passive mode.

The real reason for the 3.5mm fully passive mode in the iO-12, Solitaire T and ML 5909 is because the manufacturers of this products claiming that in fully passive mode the performance is excellent. And this is part of the premium price of this 3 headphones. The idea is having a genuine 2 in 1 solution because you have people that prefer using a good headphone with a cable when is possible. For this people the BT mode is for occasions when you don't want using cables BUT still having excellent sound quality wirelessly.

In the case specifically of the Solitaire T, the engineers at T+A designing the ST first and mainly as a passive headphone and then, after doing this, they adding the BT, ANC, transparency, an telephone call features, and using some unique tech for a BT mode they calling "High Quality" mode. The ST even comes with a balanced cable, apart from the standard 3.5mm single ended cable, precisely for people that want using the ST in passive mode with a balanced cable.

The iO-12 even comes with two 3.5mm cables, one for portable use (1.2m) and one for home use (3.0m), and is coming too with a 3.5mm to 6.3mm adapter for passive use possibly with an amp and/or DAC.

 

[TomBY]

As usual, you are very quick in claiming, that someone is missing „the“ point. You should answer rather polite and without pointing permanently on other people’s fault, which are mostly only in your mind. You get never tired to claim that other people aren’t objective or even worse „fanboys“ and that most reviewers don’t do their job very seriously.

I explained reasons, why wired usage for me is of low importance, and I would consider a wireless headphone to be used wired only, if there is a massive improvement in sound quality, which I don‘t see with the IO-12. If sound quality is even lesser in wired mode than in wireless mode, I would not bother with cables at all (unless the source has no BT).