[angelom]

Dali always impress with quality but compared to something like Airpods Max, even Bathys, these look horrendous. Like airport $15 headphones with no brand.

I personally prefer the "airport" $15 Dali iO-12 than the kindergarten $10 Focal Bathys.

 

[Frabera]

It seems that the 12 do not really compete against the T, I thought it would have been as good as the T but with a bigger stage and maybe clearer and more detailed, it seems not to be the case at all, therefore I am not so motivated to purchase one, maybe the main difference might be on BT with iOS, as the T does not have a good synergy with my iPhone 13.

 

[angelom]

It seems that the 12 do not really compete against the T, I thought it would have been as good as the T but with a bigger stage and maybe clearer and more detailed, it seems not to be the case at all, therefore I am not so motivated to purchase one, maybe the main difference might be on BT with iOS, as the T does not have a good synergy with my iPhone 13.

I have an iPhone 15 Pro and like the ST very much with this device. I'm sure you, personally, will like the io-12 more than the ST with or without your iPhone 13. I'm serious.

And I'm sure more people will enjoying more the more exciting sound of the io-12 than the 'boring' sound of the ST. I'm serious too.

 

[Frabera]

The T was a bit "boring" in the beginning but after a few months of use, it is not any more at all.

 

[Frabera]

I mainly listen the T wired with my Shanling M9+ the balance is great and not fatiguing at all, I am squared the 12 might be to punchy and less relax.

 

[angelom]

I mainly listen the T wired with my Shanling M9+ the balance is great and not fatiguing at all, I am squared the 12 might be to punchy and less relax.

The ST is more "punchy" than the 12. But the 12 having a more big soundstage and more treble presence with less mids presence. I think that people in Asian markets (Japan & South Korea and maybe China) will preferring more the 12...but I really think more people in west countries, in general, preferring the 12 sound too, specially because of more big soundstage and perception of more details in the recording. This is the reason I saying the 12 is more exciting in sound.

The iO-12 is a very, very good headphone, and I think is better in sound than the M 5909, that, before trying the 12, is my second favourite ANC headphone. BUT, people that liking bass will becoming very disappointing with the bass of the 12, even with the "bass' setting on.

---------------

In a separate topic, I think that for the first time real-leather earpads (of the io-12) are becoming more hot than in all my past experiences with leather earpads. I think the ST's vegan earpads are better for me. If this is true (I need more testing), this is a BIG surprise for me.

 

[Frabera]

What about separation of instruments ?

 

[angelom]

Transparency mode in the ST is the best, is the more close to what you hearing in real life, meaning when not wearing headphones. Second is the AirPods Pro 2nd gen (this is a surprise for me that isn't first! Is amplifying sounds more than ST so is less natural). Then the 12 and ML are very similar, having less volume than natural sound without headphones so more difficult hearing environment sounds.

I don't testing telephone calls quality yet but recording a voice memo in my iPhone with the 12 is absolutely terrible, is almost no sound when I playing back the audio at more high volume (!!). The ST and ML (for voice memos in iPhone 15 Pro) is very, very better. I have similar bad problem with the b&w px8 with voice memos in my iPhone, but later trying in real telephone calls and is better. BUT, practically not being possible recording a voice memo in iPhone with the 12 (is really, really terrible) is not good. I will trying testing with real call in next few days.

 

[Fabik]

I personally prefer the "airport" $15 Dali iO-12 than the kindergarten $10 Focal Bathys.

I agree, the design of the iO-12 is really nice.

BUT, people that liking bass will becoming very disappointing with the bass of the 12, even with the "bass' setting on.

I'm also disappointed by Dali's missed opportunity. The bass setting makes things worse: the mids and treble become quite muddy. That's why I no longer use the bass EQ. As I wrote in my first impressions that the bass was like that of the H95, the iO-12's volume was really high, and of course the louder the headphones, the more punchy the bass. But I found that at the same volume I still preferred the H95s. If the bass setting made them sound like the H95, I would keep the Dali iO-12 for those lazy evenings on the sofa. But I still wouldn't take them with me when I'm out and about (because of size and lack of good ANC).

For now, I'm going back to the H95s again and again, and they deserve it. With a bit of EQ you can boost the treble a little more and they have a good balance between bass and treble. Of course, they can't compete with the clarity and soundstage of the iO-12. But for the €550 I paid for the H95s, I got another pair that compensated for the H95s' weaknesses like open back headphones. I have heard that the Sennheiser HD600s have a great soundstage.
But if you're travelling, just want to take a pair of headphones with you and like to enjoy music with a big stage, the iO-12 seems like an excellent choice.

Transparency mode in the ST is the best, is the more close to what you hearing in real life, meaning when not wearing headphones.

Yes, the transparency is very good. Like in real life. But not when you speak, your own voice is really muffled. The AirPods Max still wins in this aspect.

 

[angelom]

For now, I'm going back to the H95s again and again, and they deserve it. With a bit of EQ you can boost the treble a little more and they have a good balance between bass and treble. Of course, they can't compete with the clarity and soundstage of the iO-12. But for the €550 I paid for the H95s, I got another pair that compensated for the H95s' weaknesses like open back headphones. I have heard that the Sennheiser HD600s have a great soundstage.

I don't have the h95 anymore but I owning for maybe 2 years, but I really think that the io-12 is a better sounding headphone. And you're correct about the bass, when you saying you needing more volume in the 12 for getting more low end realism, BUT I still think the 12 at mid volume is a better sounding headphone than the h95 (from memory), but maybe with EQ the h95 is very close (I never using EQ with my h95).

About the hd600, this is a great headphone, and yes, soundstage is very good (is an open-back headphone!), BUT the problem with the hd600 is that is beautifully neutral except in low bass that is lacking very much. Still, the hd600 is a excellent reference of great sound.

Yes, the transparency is very good. Like in real life. But not when you speak, your own voice is really muffled. The AirPods Max still win here.

Maybe you reading my post wrong? I saying that the ST transparency is excellent (not so much the io12), then the AirPods Pro 2, and then the io12 and ML 5909, this last 2 having less volume that what you hearing in real life (with no headphones on). I prefer the little more amplification of the AirPods Pro 2 (than less sound of outside world of 12 and 5909) because I want hearing all things around me when I'm using transparency mode (with music, film or podcast on). Is a long time since I owning the AirPods Max so I don't remember exactly all aspects, but my memory telling me that transparency is excellent too. The ST's transparency is incredibly natural.

 

[angelom]

Ok, this is one aspect that I mentioning several times in the ST thread. This is about the reproduction of cymbals (and also of snare drums), and this is why I mentioning before in this thread that, in my opinion, the high frequencies are the more difficult frequencies doing correctly in a headphone. With the 12 (and 5909) you having a more big soundstage and the perception of more details (this is with the help of more treble presence), but for actual realism of cymbals and snare drums, the ST clearly is more accurate, in my view. This is similar like when in photography some photos showing more details or more contrast in colours, but ultimately isn't so real like what your eyes perceiving in reality -- more impressive initially, yes, but not so natural at the end.

But I must insisting that the io-12 is really a very, very good headphone with really very good sound. And, if I don't know the ST, I keeping definitely. I still need doing more testing for being 100% sure that I keeping the ST and not the 12, but right now I'm 85% the ST is my preference.

 

[Frabera]

What are exactly the main differences between the ST and the 12 ?

 

[angelom]

Not so good news.

A big surprise after all the iO-12 marketing and posts and videos online: The iO-12, in completely passive mode with 3.5mm cable, isn't sounding so good like in BT mode. The sound is thin and is clearly needing more bass and maybe just a little treble lift. When using the 3.5mm cable and the headphone is switching on, the sound is clearly better, and is the same (or identical) like when is in BT mode but only with more volume. So, the io-12 is is depending very much on DSP for better sound. This is NOT the case with the ST, a headphone that is first designing like a good close-back wired-only headphone and then the T+A engineers adding the unique BT (and ANC) aspect in this headphone.

The io-12 is very different from the ST in fully passive mode (headphone completely off), the ST with the option, even, of using in balanced mode where every ST owner or reviewer reporting better sound than in BT mode but still having very, very close tonal balance and sound. I always saying in the ST thread that the ST, in fully passive mode vs BT "high quality" mode, are incredibly similar in sound quality, a very remarkable and unique aspect in the BT/ANC market, making the price of the ST maybe not so crazy like some people thinking.

 

[Europolit]

Ok, this is one aspect that I mentioning several times in the ST thread. This is about the reproduction of cymbals (and also of snare drums), and this is why I mentioning before in this thread that, in my opinion, the high frequencies are the more difficult frequencies doing correctly in a headphone. With the 12 (and 5909) you having a more big soundstage and the perception of more details (this is with the help of more treble presence), but for actual realism of cymbals and snare drums, the ST clearly is more accurate, in my view. This is similar like when in photography some photos showing more details or more contrast in colours, but ultimately isn't so real like what your eyes perceiving in reality -- more impressive initially, yes, but not so natural at the end.

But I must insisting that the io-12 is really a very, very good headphone with really very good sound. And, if I don't know the ST, I keeping definitely. I still need doing more testing for being 100% sure that I keeping the ST and not the 12, but right now I'm 85% the ST is my preference.

I didn't expect the Solitaire T to be on a par or close with the Bose/AirPods Pro 2 in terms of ANC. Wow. Maybe I need to try them too. But I will wait for your verdict on the iO-12s first, as the STs come with a hefty price tag of €1,300.

We seem to be in the same boat. I had the same irritation with the AirPods Max. Same problem with the ears touching the drivers with the XM4/XM5. Sadly, I have the AirPods Pro 1. Gen and the silicone in my ears also causes irritation/sweat and they always slowly come out of my ear, so I'm not a fan of in-ear any more. In my case, it has to be an ANC headphone.

I've read that the ST doesn't have enough room for large ears. Can you confirm this? Sorry for going off topic here a bit. But I find it good to have some references to other brands in terms of com

In my experience, @angelom and @WDitters don't rush to give early impressions under the excitement of a new purchase. They will do some serious listening and comparisons before giving some first impressions.

It looks like the iO-12 will be fantastic for people with large ears.

Just to add my two cents to this. I just picked up the IO-12 at the Hifi-Klubben store here in Amsterdam (NL) - a great store by the way - earlier today. Listened to them for a minute or two in the store and decided they were as good as I had hoped they would be and got them. I have big ears and the Solitaire T, which I also have, are a bit too small for me, I am still able to wear them though, and they are not uncomfortable at all; they would just be e v e n more comfortable with slightly larger cups (for me). The IO-12 was just wonderful for me in terms of size.

Oh, one more thought that others have also commented on. It seems like the use case for a product like the IO-12 is different, at least for me, than your regular Sony XM5 or Bose product that you might drag around in your backpack, use when you're biking or whatever. I imagine the IO-12 as something you would rather listen to in the same room as your regular Dali speakers when your partner/children/neighbors don't want you to use the full-sized speakers. It really has this (and I am saying that based on my short in-store listening session)... seem to have... the ability to shift you to an alternate cocooned reality filled with the music you love. The big pads embrace you and float you away....

 

[Frabera]

In terms of sound which differences have you located between the IO-12 and the Solitaire T ?