New Beyerdynamic T5p 2nd generation

[Peridot]

 
Actually, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  I'm waiting to receive a replacement pads from ebay, some deep cushy ones, and will report back on the fitment and sound changes.  BUT the real solution might come from @PETEREK who is well known on head-fi for modding full size cans and making custom cables.  He tried one specific mod with his original T5p and might be able to reduce sound leakage without altering sound signature too much.  Once I get my replacement earpads, I will take one for the team so he can use his modding magic on T5p.2

 
Looking forward to hearing the results of this. Having heard the T5p.2, I really want to own them, but the leakage levels are a problem for me.

 

[GoSUV]

I have both the original T5p and T5p Gen 2 side by side, and I don't notice any external differences related to how the Gen 2 would leak more sound than the original. Now that I have just gotten the Gen 2, and from what I can tell, these two isolate the same and I am willing to bet they leak the same too, which is not a lot, but if you turn up the music loud, people nearby would hear some noises, but won't be able to tell exactly what you are listening to. Compared to my T1.2, The T1's would be almost open and people will be able to tell what music you are listening to clearly.
 
In terms of T5p's isolation (both versions), when music is playing at a moderate level, I can't hear my office phone ring on my desk. I think the isolation levels are adequate, but of course not as good as sealed in-ear monitors. These headphones should work ok on an airplane.

 

[scarfacegt]

Just ordered the t5p.the price was good, so couldnt resist i like good bass,but im not an basshead so from the few reviews and the impressions here,i think its an good allrounder for my music taste

 

[TimeLord]

I have both the original T5p and T5p Gen 2 side by side, and I don't notice any external differences related to how the Gen 2 would leak more sound than the original. Now that I have just gotten the Gen 2, and from what I can tell, these two isolate the same and I am willing to bet they leak the same too, which is not a lot, but if you turn up the music loud, people nearby would hear some noises, but won't be able to tell exactly what you are listening to. Compared to my T1.2, The T1's would be almost open and people will be able to tell what music you are listening to clearly.

In terms of T5p's isolation (both versions), when music is playing at a moderate level, I can't hear my office phone ring on my desk. I think the isolation levels are adequate, but of course not as good as sealed in-ear monitors. These headphones should work ok on an airplane.

Based on empirical evidence, I'd have to disagree with you that they don't leak a lot of sound. See my post on previous page for the evidence.

As for isolation, you cannot base the isolation level while the music is playing. Of course, while the music is playing you cannot hear the phone ringing, it's being drowned out by the music. Instead you should be testing how much of the outside noise is being attenuated with the headphones on, but not playing any music. That gives you a true measure of its isolation capabilities.

 

[plakat]

Based on empirical evidence, I'd have to disagree with you that they don't leak a lot of sound. See my post on previous page for the evidence.

As for isolation, you cannot base the isolation level while the music is playing. Of course, while the music is playing you cannot hear the phone ringing, it's being drowned out by the music. Instead you should be testing how much of the outside noise is being attenuated with the headphones on, but not playing any music. That gives you a true measure of its isolation capabilities.

Since I'm not interested in theoretical isolation but based upon what I do with headphones, I, in turn, have to disagree. While I'm able to hold a conversation while listening on the T1, the K812, the HD800S I'm not able to do so while using the T5p2. And thats not because I listen louder...
 
Given Tylls measurements of the original T5p I think isolation is not bad at all. As always it depends on usage... and personally I don't care for the often quoted library case or the sleeping wife case... both are not occasions I would use any headphone at. Not even in-ears actually.
 
And leakage depends so much on personal listening levels that a comparison is not useful. I know only few people who say about themselves that they listen loud. We once measured actual listening levels and the range was quite diverse...

 

[TexasBuck]

Just ordered the t5p.the price was good, so couldnt resist

i like good bass,but im not an basshead so from the few reviews and the impressions here,i think its an good allrounder for my music taste

 
The bass is excellent but not basshead level.  I have the Fostex TH600's for my fun headphone.  The T5P bass isn't at that quantity but satisfying enough that I will consider selling the TH600's.
 
I have not listened to anything yet, that hasn't sounded good on the T5p's.  I think they should be an excellent allrounder for you. 

 

[TimeLord]

Since I'm not interested in theoretical isolation but based upon what I do with headphones, I, in turn, have to disagree. While I'm able to hold a conversation while listening on the T1, the K812, the HD800S I'm not able to do so while using the T5p2. And thats not because I listen louder...

Given Tylls measurements of the original T5p I think isolation is not bad at all. As always it depends on usage... and personally I don't care for the often quoted library case or the sleeping wife case... both are not occasions I would use any headphone at. Not even in-ears actually.

And leakage depends so much on personal listening levels that a comparison is not useful. I know only few people who say about themselves that they listen loud. We once measured actual listening levels and the range was quite diverse...

Isolation is neither theoretical nor subjective. It's a measurement of actual reduction of noise.

You would not use open back headphones on a subway, not just because it disturbs the other passengers, but all the ambient noise will actually interfere with the music you're trying to listen to. The same problem is often observed by people trying out open back headphones at meets and Can Jam; too much ambient noise is present to audition the headphones properly.

The closed back headphone's isolation is supposed to allow you to keep out external noise so that you can focus on the music. The ability of a headphone to keep out that noise (isolation) is a measurable quantity that impacts its performance in noisy environments and not a theoretical use case.

 

[plakat]

Isolation is neither theoretical nor subjective. It's a measurement of actual reduction of noise.

You would not use open back headphones on a subway, not just because it disturbs the other passengers, but all the ambient noise will actually interfere with the music you're trying to listen to. The same problem is often observed by people trying out open back headphones at meets and Can Jam; too much ambient noise is present to audition the headphones properly.

The closed back headphone's isolation is supposed to allow you to keep out external noise so that you can focus on the music. The ability of a headphone to keep out that noise (isolation) is a measurable quantity that impacts its performance in noisy environments and not a theoretical use case.

Don't you say...
 
While I'm getting a bit tired of this discussion page after page, I still don't care for keeping a headphone on without music playing: Its completely irrelevant to me as I solely use headphones for listening to music, not as hearing protections in a noisy environment (where I use custom molded protections btw.). As I said above, Tyll does measurements, and it shows that isolation is not bad at all. This is reflected by my actual use cases and shows that I'm not dreaming this up.
 
And to keep discussions short you can skip the part about open/closed... I do already know.
 
Tylls measurements of the old T5p:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT5p.pdf

 

[TimeLord]

Don't you say...

While I'm getting a bit tired of this discussion page after page, I still don't care for keeping a headphone on without music playing: Its completely irrelevant to me as I solely use headphones for listening to music, not as hearing protections in a noisy environment (where I use custom molded protections btw.). As I said above, Tyll does measurements, and it shows that isolation is not bad at all. This is reflected by my actual use cases and shows that I'm not dreaming this up.

And to keep discussions short you can skip the part about open/closed... I do already know.

Tylls measurements of the old T5p:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT5p.pdf

There are plenty of pages extolling the virtues of these headphones. I don't see anything wrong with discussing their potential shortcomings as well. And I'll reiterate potential because it all depends on the use case.

I appreciate you pointing to Inner Fidelity's measurements because that does help to illustrate the expected isolation you'll get from the T5p.

To me, the actual attenuation level vs perceived sound while music plays matters because in a noisy environment such as on an airplane, to block out the engine and other noise present, you'll have to turn up the volume higher on the T5p compared to another better isolating headphone. If your use case does not call for better isolation levels, that's great, but it may matter to others like me.

For comparison, look at the isolation graph for the Alpha Prime and ATH-M50X. The attenuation for these headphones does not taper off like the T5p.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MrSpeakersAlphaPrime.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50x.pdf

 

[twister6]

Ok, so I got these replacement Beyer T5p thicker pads from ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thicker-protein-Ear-Pads-Cushion-For-Beyerdynamic-DT-T-HS-Series-Headphones-/172032786271 - nice seller to deal with, but they DO NOT fit T5p/T5p.2.  I already told him to remove T5p from a product description as one of the supporting models.
 
 
 
 
Just want everybody to be aware if/when you are searching ebay - these particular pads will not work with T5p.

 

[TimeLord]

Just want everybody to be aware if/when you are searching ebay - these particular pads will not work with T5p.

Sorry those pads didn't work out. Thanks for the information.

 

[plakat]

There are plenty of pages extolling the virtues of these headphones. I don't see anything wrong with discussing their potential shortcomings as well. And I'll reiterate potential because it all depends on the use case.

I appreciate you pointing to Inner Fidelity's measurements because that does help to illustrate the expected isolation you'll get from the T5p.

To me, the actual attenuation level vs perceived sound while music plays matters because in a noisy environment such as on an airplane, to block out the engine and other noise present, you'll have to turn up the volume higher on the T5p compared to another better isolating headphone. If your use case does not call for better isolation levels, that's great, but it may matter to others like me.

For comparison, look at the isolation graph for the Alpha Prime and ATH-M50X. The attenuation for these headphones does not taper off like the T5p.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/MrSpeakersAlphaPrime.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50x.pdf

Both show no relevant attenuation below 100Hz, so engine noise will still be a major problem. And sound wise I prefer the T5p2 by far. But tastes differ of course, and I respect Dan very much for what he does. Btw: what do you mean by "does not taper off" in the context of the isolation graph?

No, I don't see any problem with a discussion about shortcomings, I own many Beyerdynamic headphon s because i like their sound signature, not because I'm married to them. It's more that the ultimate isolation is simply not to be found with closed over-ears that are built with high end sound target. I think in-ears or ANC are simply the better solution to this specific problem... The more closed a headphone is, the harder it is to achieve an even sound signature and good detail retrieval with a nice spacious representation.

 

[TimeLord]

Both show no relevant attenuation below 100Hz, so engine noise will still be a major problem. And sound wise I prefer the T5p2 by far. But tastes differ of course, and I respect Dan very much for what he does. Btw: what do you mean by "does not taper off" in the context of the isolation graph?

No, I don't see any problem with a discussion about shortcomings, I own many Beyerdynamic headphon s because i like their sound signature, not because I'm married to them. It's more that the ultimate isolation is simply not to be found with closed over-ears that are built with high end sound target. I think in-ears or ANC are simply the better solution to this specific problem... The more closed a headphone is, the harder it is to achieve an even sound signature and good detail retrieval with a nice spacious representation.

Yes, I agree regarding the attenuation of noise at 100 Hz. The lower frequencies are more difficult to manage.

My tapered off comment was regarding the T5p's graph showing that attenuation flattened out at -35 dB and started rising after 4k Hz.

I too have several Beyerdynamics including the T5p and the T1. And the T5p is my favorite pair of Beyers.

Ultimately, we agree that there is a price to pay for great isolation: small soundstage. I also agree that IEMs are the best remedy for isolation.

Edit: corrected frequency typo.

 

[GoSUV]

Based on empirical evidence, I'd have to disagree with you that they don't leak a lot of sound. See my post on previous page for the evidence.

As for isolation, you cannot base the isolation level while the music is playing. Of course, while the music is playing you cannot hear the phone ringing, it's being drowned out by the music. Instead you should be testing how much of the outside noise is being attenuated with the headphones on, but not playing any music. That gives you a true measure of its isolation capabilities.

To each his own I guess. If you need the ultimate isolation and the least leakage, you would go for IEM's but you have to make some sacrifices since the soundstage will not be the same. To eliminate outside noise such as airplane engines, there are headphones with active noise cancellation but this also introduces some other factors like the ANC circuitry and its related shortcomings. You gain some and you lose some. To me the T5p's isolates adequately given its other technically outstanding attributes. In a sense, they are not significantly worse in terms of isolation or leakage compared to similar closed-back headphones is what I'm trying to say, and they are categorically much better than open-back or semi-open headphones such as the T1 (isolation and leakage).

 

[TokenGesture]

*teeters painfully on the fence*