New Audiophiles, how to hear certain sounds.
Dec 20, 2011 at 3:55 PM Post #31 of 45
I recently found a pretty neat "album" that taught me how recognize these audiophile terms.
It's called: Ultimate Demonstration Disc; Chesky Records' Guide to Critical Listening.
It gives you brief explanation of terms followed by example (full) song.
1. High Resolution
2. Depth
3. Atmosphere
4. Midrange
5. Naturalness
6. Transparency
7. Presence
8. Visceral Impact
9. Rhythm & Pace
10. Focus
11. Holographic Imaging
12. Transient
13. Bass Resonance
14. Dynamic
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 5:33 PM Post #32 of 45
Wow great thread, i was about to post a thread asking this question but i guess ill ask it here.
Im new to classical music and i see all these people talking about a song being in c then changing to d or similar things. Now i am a beginning piano player so i now that C and D are notes, and i know a little about scales but im not sure what there talking about. I know that this question might be vague and hard to explain with long music and music theory classes, but those classes will be done later, could anyone show me a good example of a song that shows this and where to look and what im looking for?
Like this quote from Wikipedia on Beethovens 8th(my favorite) 4th movement. "The harmonically out-of-place loud C♯ that interrupts the main theme in the exposition and recapitulation finally gets an "explanation": it turns out to be the root of the dominant chord of the remote key of F♯ minor, and the main theme is loudly played in this key"

Is this really supposed to matter and make sense? Maybe a book recommendation also?
 
Dec 22, 2011 at 11:27 PM Post #33 of 45


Quote:
I recently found a pretty neat "album" that taught me how recognize these audiophile terms.
It's called: Ultimate Demonstration Disc; Chesky Records' Guide to Critical Listening.
It gives you brief explanation of terms followed by example (full) song.
1. High Resolution
2. Depth
3. Atmosphere
4. Midrange
5. Naturalness
6. Transparency
7. Presence
8. Visceral Impact
9. Rhythm & Pace
10. Focus
11. Holographic Imaging
12. Transient
13. Bass Resonance
14. Dynamic


Would really like to get ahold of something like this. 
 


Quote:
Wow great thread, i was about to post a thread asking this question but i guess ill ask it here.
Im new to classical music and i see all these people talking about a song being in c then changing to d or similar things. Now i am a beginning piano player so i now that C and D are notes, and i know a little about scales but im not sure what there talking about. I know that this question might be vague and hard to explain with long music and music theory classes, but those classes will be done later, could anyone show me a good example of a song that shows this and where to look and what im looking for?
Like this quote from Wikipedia on Beethovens 8th(my favorite) 4th movement. "The harmonically out-of-place loud C♯ that interrupts the main theme in the exposition and recapitulation finally gets an "explanation": it turns out to be the root of the dominant chord of the remote key of F♯ minor, and the main theme is loudly played in this key"
Is this really supposed to matter and make sense? Maybe a book recommendation also?



This is why i created the thread, so general frequencies from sound can be asked upon. However sadly i dont have an awnser for it lol. 
 
Dec 23, 2011 at 12:19 AM Post #34 of 45
Would really like to get ahold of something like this. 



This is why i created the thread, so general frequencies from sound can be asked upon. However sadly i dont have an awnser for it lol. 


Thanks for that, and hopefully ill get one, though i know it is probably a complicated question.
 
Dec 23, 2011 at 3:39 AM Post #35 of 45
Play around with a graphic eq.  Boost certain bands (slide it all the way up
tongue.gif
) and listen to how it changes the sound.  Should be pretty obvious.  Then you can recognize generally whats in 1k range, 500hz range, 10k range etc...
 
Seriously, you guys never did stuff like this?  Even on those old boomboxes and stereos with the sliding switch eq's on them?
 
Quote:
Wow great thread, i was about to post a thread asking this question but i guess ill ask it here.
Im new to classical music and i see all these people talking about a song being in c then changing to d or similar things. Now i am a beginning piano player so i now that C and D are notes, and i know a little about scales but im not sure what there talking about. I know that this question might be vague and hard to explain with long music and music theory classes, but those classes will be done later, could anyone show me a good example of a song that shows this and where to look and what im looking for?
Like this quote from Wikipedia on Beethovens 8th(my favorite) 4th movement. "The harmonically out-of-place loud C♯ that interrupts the main theme in the exposition and recapitulation finally gets an "explanation": it turns out to be the root of the dominant chord of the remote key of F♯ minor, and the main theme is loudly played in this key"
Is this really supposed to matter and make sense? Maybe a book recommendation also?


 
Key is entirely different.  The key of a piece, to oversimplify for clarity, is where the scale begins.  The C major scale begins at C then DEFGABC.  Similarly there are chords associated with that scale.  The D major scale starts at D E F# G A B C#.  Likewise there are chords associated with that.  To boil it down even more, the scale is a pattern of notes (i.e. whole step, whole step, half step, etc. [a whole step is moving two intervals including sharps/flats.  A half step is moving one.]).  This pattern is different depending on major/minor key.
 
My definition of key is wrong, since you'll find out later there are modes in the same key.  I think a better way of thinking about it is the chords instead of the scales.  Similarly, chords are just a combination of notes.  The pattern of notes that assemble a chord determine the type of chord.  A simple example: C major chord (C E G), C minor chord (C Eb G).
 
I would be very impressed if you could hear a song and tell me what key it was in just by ear.  Very few ppl have what's known as 'perfect pitch', which means when they hear a sound they know it's an A# or whatever.  Most people have 'relative pitch' which means if you listen to a tone that is an A# you then can make an educated guess at what the next tone is.
 
Quote:
I recently found a pretty neat "album" that taught me how recognize these audiophile terms.
It's called: Ultimate Demonstration Disc; Chesky Records' Guide to Critical Listening.
It gives you brief explanation of terms followed by example (full) song.
1. High Resolution
2. Depth
3. Atmosphere
4. Midrange
5. Naturalness
6. Transparency
7. Presence
8. Visceral Impact
9. Rhythm & Pace
10. Focus
11. Holographic Imaging
12. Transient
13. Bass Resonance
14. Dynamic



At the end of the day, audiophile jargon is audiophile jargon.  It's just the 1000 words used to describe the auditory 'picture'.  At least IMHO.
 
Dec 23, 2011 at 4:19 AM Post #36 of 45
Play around with a graphic eq.  Boost certain bands (slide it all the way up :p ) and listen to how it changes the sound.  Should be pretty obvious.  Then you can recognize generally whats in 1k range, 500hz range, 10k range etc...

Seriously, you guys never did stuff like this?  Even on those old boomboxes and stereos with the sliding switch eq's on them?

 


 
Key is entirely different.  The key of a piece, to oversimplify for clarity, is where the scale begins.  The C major scale begins at C then DEFGABC.  Similarly there are chords associated with that scale.  The D major scale starts at D E F# G A B C#.  Likewise there are chords associated with that.  To boil it down even more, the scale is a pattern of notes (i.e. whole step, whole step, half step, etc. [a whole step is moving two intervals including sharps/flats.  A half step is moving one.]).  This pattern is different depending on major/minor key.

My definition of key is wrong, since you'll find out later there are modes in the same key.  I think a better way of thinking about it is the chords instead of the scales.  Similarly, chords are just a combination of notes.  The pattern of notes that assemble a chord determine the type of chord.  A simple example: C major chord (C E G), C minor chord (C Eb G).

I would be very impressed if you could hear a song and tell me what key it was in just by ear.  Very few ppl have what's known as 'perfect pitch', which means when they hear a sound they know it's an A# or whatever.  Most people have 'relative pitch' which means if you listen to a tone that is an A# you then can make an educated guess at what the next tone is.



At the end of the day, audiophile jargon is audiophile jargon.  It's just the 1000 words used to describe the auditory 'picture'.  At least IMHO.


Thanks a lot for that, it was exactly what i was expecting and hoping for, now i don't feel so separated from the more advanced listeners and know at least what they are talking about. Very nice explanation. One last question, if a piece is written in lets say, f minor, would it only incorporate the notes in the f minor scale, or is that just what it is focused on? Thanks again.
 
Dec 23, 2011 at 6:06 AM Post #37 of 45

 
Love this song and dynamic drivers love this song for breaking in. Bass is very pronounced and killer treble.
 
Dec 23, 2011 at 6:46 PM Post #38 of 45


Quote:
Thanks a lot for that, it was exactly what i was expecting and hoping for, now i don't feel so separated from the more advanced listeners and know at least what they are talking about. Very nice explanation. One last question, if a piece is written in lets say, f minor, would it only incorporate the notes in the f minor scale, or is that just what it is focused on? Thanks again.


No.  F minor is the starting point.  So your key signature would look like this...

Four flats which is also the key signature for the relative major Ab.  A minor key is actually a bad example for my point (I'll mention why) so I'll use Ab major.  In a song written in Ab, you'll see the Ab major chord along with related chords that are made of notes in the Ab major scale ( I ii iii IV V vi vii ).  Now if you're listening to pop or something, you probably won't hear much outside of those several chords
tongue.gif
.  In actual music though, the composers throw in other chords too.  If I really wanted to I could throw a D minor chord in the middle of that song in Ab.  It wouldn't necessarily sound good, but I could do it.  With that said, in a lot of classical music you'll see chord progressions that include chords from other keys even though there is no explicit key change.  These sound good and TBH those chord progressions are what make classical and similar music so beautiful.  It just burns me that popular music doesn't use such interesting progressions.
 
A simple example of this.  I could start out on Ab major chord, then play the IV chord with is Db major.  From there I could decide instead of playing, say the V chord, I could play the IV chord in the key of Db major which is Gb major.  Then I could play the ii chord in the key of Db major etc. and then eventually return to chords in the key of Ab major.  This doesn't have to be a key change.  Sometimes it's only a chord or two taken from another key.  Note that you'll see a bunch of accidentals on the sheet music when this happens.  Sadly, when you hear a key change in pop, it's usually just transposing the same exact thing a couple steps up *facepalm*.  (btw, it is easy to hear a key change like this.)
 
The composer can also decide to throw in whatever notes he wants.  For example he could use whatever chromaticism in the melody he wants even if those notes don't fit into the chords being played.  In the words of my piano teacher, there are no wrong notes.
 
I decided not to use a minor key as an example because there's something funny that goes on in minor keys.  The natural minor uses the same notes as indicated in the key signature, but the 'harmonic minor' scale has the 7th (note in the scale) raised one half step (the harmonic minor is commonly used).  So in a song in F minor you'll probably see a bunch of accidentals and many of them will be E natural.  To confuse things even more there's also a melodic minor scale which is slightly different.  In the song, sometimes you'll see the E natural, other times you won't.  You may even see a D natural which comes from the melodic minor scale.  All of those are perfectly acceptable and still in the key of F minor.
 
Knowing all this makes looking at a piece of music much less daunting.  Instead of looking at a chord with a bunch of accidentals and needing to go through and look at each note, you'll start to recognize the pattern.  This is actually one of the most helpful things in reading music even when there aren't accidentals.
 
Now that you've had a crash course on music theory, find a book or an appendix in one of your books that has all the scales, chords, and arpeggios.  This is known as the circle of fifths/fourths.  Practice them and this will make much more sense
biggrin.gif
.
 
Dec 23, 2011 at 8:44 PM Post #39 of 45
No.  F minor is the starting point.  So your key signature would look like this...

Four flats which is also the key signature for the relative major Ab.  A minor key is actually a bad example for my point (I'll mention why) so I'll use Ab major.  In a song written in Ab, you'll see the Ab major chord along with related chords that are made of notes in the Ab major scale ( I ii iii IV V vi vii ).  Now if you're listening to pop or something, you probably won't hear much outside of those several chords :p .  In actual music though, the composers throw in other chords too.  If I really wanted to I could throw a D minor chord in the middle of that song in Ab.  It wouldn't necessarily sound good, but I could do it.  With that said, in a lot of classical music you'll see chord progressions that include chords from other keys even though there is no explicit key change.  These sound good and TBH those chord progressions are what make classical and similar music so beautiful.  It just burns me that popular music doesn't use such interesting progressions.

A simple example of this.  I could start out on Ab major chord, then play the IV chord with is Db major.  From there I could decide instead of playing, say the V chord, I could play the IV chord in the key of Db major which is Gb major.  Then I could play the ii chord in the key of Db major etc. and then eventually return to chords in the key of Ab major.  This doesn't have to be a key change.  Sometimes it's only a chord or two taken from another key.  Note that you'll see a bunch of accidentals on the sheet music when this happens.  Sadly, when you hear a key change in pop, it's usually just transposing the same exact thing a couple steps up *facepalm*.  (btw, it is easy to hear a key change like this.)

The composer can also decide to throw in whatever notes he wants.  For example he could use whatever chromaticism in the melody he wants even if those notes don't fit into the chords being played.  In the words of my piano teacher, there are no wrong notes.

I decided not to use a minor key as an example because there's something funny that goes on in minor keys.  The natural minor uses the same notes as indicated in the key signature, but the 'harmonic minor' scale has the 7th (note in the scale) raised one half step (the harmonic minor is commonly used).  So in a song in F minor you'll probably see a bunch of accidentals and many of them will be E natural.  To confuse things even more there's also a melodic minor scale which is slightly different.  In the song, sometimes you'll see the E natural, other times you won't.  You may even see a D natural which comes from the melodic minor scale.  All of those are perfectly acceptable and still in the key of F minor.

Knowing all this makes looking at a piece of music much less daunting.  Instead of looking at a chord with a bunch of accidentals and needing to go through and look at each note, you'll start to recognize the pattern.  This is actually one of the most helpful things in reading music even when there aren't accidentals.

Now that you've had a crash course on music theory, find a book or an appendix in one of your books that has all the scales, chords, and arpeggios.  This is known as the circle of fifths/fourths.  Practice them and this will make much more sense :D .


I'm at a loss of words, thanks a ton, hopefully this helps quite a few people because i feel like i should have paid you for this. Im going to be rereading this while google and wiki are open to understand it a lot better but i think i got the most of it. Again, thanks a ton.
Edit: Okay now looking through Wikipedia and some books that i have knowing what to look for, has gotten me to learn a lot more today then i would have expected. Like i said i am a beginning pianist and do not have money to be taking lessons right now though i now how important it would be. So my education is flawed and i did not know the group of flats and sharps at the beginning of a piece represented what key it was in or why it would matter. Now that i know better im going back and relearning the song i was learning, im not down too much though as it is in Bb major so i only need to correct two notes accidentals, one of which i already knew sounded better so i was using it anyways. More thanks.

 
Dec 27, 2011 at 3:58 PM Post #41 of 45
Any movie soundtracks I should try for a new audiophile?


I don't know what music you like but if you in to electronic the Tron Legacy soundtrack by Daft Punk is great. If you listen to classical you have a lot more choices but im not too into movie soundtracks so maybe someone else could help you out. Also try the search bar up top, ive seen a few threads about it.
 
Dec 27, 2011 at 5:07 PM Post #42 of 45


Quote:
Any movie soundtracks I should try for a new audiophile?


 
Whatever ones you like.  Most recent ones are recorded well so you should be fine.  I don't know about older ones.
 
I used to listen to soundtracks a lot more than I do now.  Hans Zimmer has a lot of good one (last samurai), also batman begins and dark knight (hans zimmer and james newton howard).
 
I always liked dark knight for testing new speakers, especially 'why so serious?'.  The Island (steve jablonsky) is also worth mentioning.  TBH I think the music was better than the movie
redface.gif
.  The only reason I watched it twice was because the music was so good.  It has a lot of little details that sound good on good headphones.
 
I haven't really been into soundtracks recently so I can't say about newer movies.  Tron was probably good just from what I remember during the movie, but I never bought it.  Honestly just try to pay attention to the music a little when you watch movies and get whichever ones you like.
 
Dec 27, 2011 at 10:18 PM Post #43 of 45
http://www.youtube.com/user/MusicToHealUrSoul has a lot of the "epic" soundtrack type music, along with some piano gems IIRC.  ...if that is the type of thing anyone's looking for. 
 
Guitar wise: Funkadelic - maggot brain, death - voice of the soul, most anything by billy mclaughlin, and as a guilty pleasure: i'm not ready by creeping lovely (if you can find an uncompressed copy) are all songs that have recently brought me joy when heard through a nice set of cans, and should be "accessible" to others' taste.
 
Not sure if audiophiles consider binaural recordings to be "cheating" but if I'm ever having a bad day I put on my 96K vinyl flac rip of ottmar lieberts' Up close album....it's a vacation that you don't have to pay for.  I really recommend searching for/purchasing a high quality rip, but here's a youtube upload of one of the songs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecOrBqQAuXg
 
smily_headphones1.gif
 You can close your eyes and you're on a beach, with the band playing right in front of you.

 
Sorry if the above was off subject/not-appreciated; the only audiophile jargon I'm fluent in is "I like this" and "I don't like this".
redface.gif

 
Dec 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM Post #44 of 45
[COLOR=000000][COLOR=800080]http://www.youtube.com/user/MusicToHealUrSoul[/COLOR] has a lot of the "epic" soundtrack type music, along with some piano gems IIRC.  ...if that is the type of thing anyone's looking for. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]Guitar wise: Funkadelic - maggot brain, death - voice of the soul, most anything by billy mclaughlin, and as a guilty pleasure: i'm not ready by creeping lovely (if you can find an uncompressed copy) are all songs that have recently brought me joy when heard through a nice set of cans, and should be "accessible" to others' taste.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]Not sure if audiophiles consider binaural recordings to be "cheating" but if I'm ever having a bad day I put on my 96K vinyl flac rip of ottmar lieberts' Up close album....it's a vacation that you don't have to pay for.  I really recommend searching for/purchasing a high quality rip, but here's a youtube upload of one of the songs: [COLOR=800080]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecOrBqQAuXg[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]:)  You can close your eyes and you're on a beach, with the band playing right in front of you.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=000000]Sorry if the above was off subject/not-appreciated; the only audiophile jargon I'm fluent in is "I like this" and "I don't like this". :xf_eek: [/COLOR]


Binaural recordings definitely aren't cheating. Audiophiles cant get enough of them, and nice post and recommendations, welcome to the community, don't be sorry your doing better than 90% of the new ones and youll get used to the jargon after a while.
 
Dec 27, 2011 at 10:50 PM Post #45 of 45
 
Quote:
Binaural recordings definitely aren't cheating. Audiophiles cant get enough of them, and nice post and recommendations, welcome to the community, don't be sorry your doing better than 90% of the new ones and youll get used to the jargon after a while.

Thank you very much!  I'm glad to be here; albeit my wallet may not share the same enthusiasm.  I was 87% sure that your avatar was Pamelia Kursten (Theremin performer) but upon further investigation I realized that it's Lykkeli Li.  *luckily this post didn't find its' way to a 20/20-phile forum*
tongue.gif

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top