duffer5
100+ Head-Fier
Are these subpar cables or decent?
New Audio-gd R-7, R-7HE R-8, R-27, R-27HE, R-28 Flagship Resistor Ladder DACs and DAC/amps
PeterCraig
500+ Head-Fier
I have an RG402 and I like it. Just got it to try last November
The RG402 is for listening to your best recorded music and you want to hear every detail. On average stuff it can sound a bit harsh or off, just like the recording. It can bring out all the warts.
I also have the Harmonic Technology. Everything sounds good with this cable.
It would be great to have the latest DI24 to be able to switch clock cables on the fly. Sometimes I switch up cables but generally I stick with the Harmonic Technology because everything sounds good and the details are all there too.
Upgrade consideration for R1N owners.....tested on headphone only
Listening back and forth with R1N and R8H2 on the DI20HE.
I realized how much the DI20HE has added to the R1N. I would place R1N and the DI20HE a better buy than R8H2(alone).
The R8H2 does win in technicality, authority, and pulls me into the soundstage. However the R1N brings the music into my room. It is contradicting explanation, but R1N plays the music specifically for the listener(surrounding), whereas the R8H2 is more inviting/seducing. The soundstage on R1N becomes bigger, more weight to the notes played, and the improvement is 50% atleast - overall.
This combo is easily at the same level as R8H2(alone) for my taste.
Get the DI20HE, and if the new DI24HE is improvement it will beat the R8H2 strong assumption.
I was trying hard to make the R1N challange Susvara alone, DI20HE was the answer.
Buying any DDC to R1N will improve it noticeably and lift it a class up.
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On R8H2 I only tried NO and N1.
Listening back and forth with R1N and R8H2 on the DI20HE.
I realized how much the DI20HE has added to the R1N. I would place R1N and the DI20HE a better buy than R8H2(alone).
The R8H2 does win in technicality, authority, and pulls me into the soundstage. However the R1N brings the music into my room. It is contradicting explanation, but R1N plays the music specifically for the listener(surrounding), whereas the R8H2 is more inviting/seducing. The soundstage on R1N becomes bigger, more weight to the notes played, and the improvement is 50% atleast - overall.
This combo is easily at the same level as R8H2(alone) for my taste.
Get the DI20HE, and if the new DI24HE is improvement it will beat the R8H2 strong assumption.
I was trying hard to make the R1N challange Susvara alone, DI20HE was the answer.
Buying any DDC to R1N will improve it noticeably and lift it a class up.
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On R8H2 I only tried NO and N1.
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Nayyte
500+ Head-Fier
Couple points I want to speak on,
Audio-GD's DAC lineup is really interesting and unique. There is currently only one "affordable" DAC available from them, the R-1 NOS. All their other DACs are significantly larger (size and $$) and quickly feel like overkill for even the above average audiophile, before they even leave the shopping cart. I don't see this as a negative but more of an oddity. You have to wonder what their lineup would look like if the oversampling chips didn't go through a price jump (hence the more NOS only releases).
On the positive for the current R-8 and R-7HE, you will find this mentioned in their description: "The USB interface itself is no longer equipped with clocks. The synchronous clock is applied to make the signal transmission more accurate and upgrade sound quality to an excellent level. The sound quality is now in fact better then with the previous generation R-8 2020** version fed by the DI-20 (not quite as good as with DI-20HE however).".
I think it's nice that they have added upgrades to these DACs so that their performance as a single unit is identical to that of the DI-20 added into the chain. Now I haven't heard any of these units first hand but I think it's nice that they are continually updated. I would raise an brow to anyone that truly believed in adding a DI-20/24/HE to a $2k-nearly$4k DAC (unless it improved the tonality; which is yet to be tested by multiple people before becoming gospel, not just OCC7N, CMIIW).
On to my next topic. I've had my R-1 NOS since September and am most likely around the 400 hour mark for my own time. Recently I've had it on for 6+ hours a day since I'm home from work for the winter. At this point I can honestly say that the brilliance of the R-1 NOS that I experienced in the first 100 hours is gone. I no longer notice the "sound" of this DAC in my chain. I find myself being more impressed by amps and headphone pairings in the chain rather than the DAC. I no longer feel the euphoria of certain songs like I used to; the feeling of divine reflection quickly after listening that makes me say "wow, that was all cause of this DAC, ridiculous". I don't know if this is because of my chain not being ideal tonality wise (everything too smooth, neutral, analytical, lacking warmth) or it's all just brain burn in. I came from a CMA400i before I got the R-1 NOS. Four years of being used to Current mode amplification and a very decent in a good way, AKM4490 chip. I have recently come to understand just how "warm and gooey" that Questyle sound was that I was so used to. I'm currently not sure of anything in my chain now that I realize this. Is the R-1 NOS dry, analytical, smeared, or just perfectly neutral? I honestly can't tell. I feel like the warm, "wet and punchy" sound was my preference in the past, but I'm indecisive. My ears and listening preferences have changed over the past 5 months for sure. I could sum up the initial criticisms in this paragraph to brain burn in.
The R-1 NOS pulls vocals forward with airy separation in relation to other instruments. Music without vocals is superb with the R-1 NOS, but throw strong vocals into heavy instrumental passages and it starts to feel seriously uncoordinated. This makes me sad since a few of my favorite bands have this style. I also believe that while this DAC produces every note clearly in complex passages, it does sound like everything in the mix is crammed into each other. Well duh! complex music does have everything crammed into each other yes, but I'm only saying that I want the separation to be larger or deeper. Depth in the music is almost one dimensional to me, but this could just be the headphone/speakers. SS is definitely not flat but also not a super isolated with instrument separation. I could also be describing the "exaggerated" decay of notes that I think is a trademark of R2R ladder designs.
All I know is that with my recently acquired topping A70 PRO I'm not a fan, the combo is fatiguing and lacking dynamics. With my D3a Papa Rusa custom tube amp, the sound is seriously impressive and pleasantly neutral/musical. But there is something about this combo that feels not so ideal (perhaps R2R+tubes is too much). The easy conclusion is that this DAC is letting me listen to everything after it in the chain like never before, revealing the strengths and weaknesses of my amp and headphones. I'm not sure how I feel about this. I want to try more amps but I also feel like no matter how many I try, I will only get slight tonal adjustments from neutral as long as the R-1 NOS is my DAC. I think my course of action is to find a SS amp I like (not the A70 pro most likely) and then start to explore other DACs in the future.
So I suppose my takeaway is that I would sooner try other DACs before going for a Audio-GD DDC. If one really liked the R-1 NOS then I could see the DDC as justifiable based on the good things other people say about it here, though I could be overstepping since I haven't heard one. I think I will just dip my toes into DDC, probably get a PCIE I2S card or a sub $300 DDC (used as well).
Also as a side note the R-1 NOS lacks a few features that a lot of chip based offerings have these days. Level control, filters, oversampling, remote, trigger. Level control being the most useful thing I actually need since I listen below 60db most of the time and 2.5V RCA output of the R-1 is too high for my tube amp.
I had the same problem with my custom tube amp... my current "stand-in" DAC, a VE Prime Pure DAC Gold, runs a high 4.054 V. A TVA passive preamp solved this problem brilliantly for me (more here). Very interested to hear/see what DAC you eventually land on for your system. Good luck.
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The DI20HE will fix that. Being able to tap into the different layers and hear the melodies isolated. The R1N is not one dimensional for me even alone, you have to revisit the chain imo...
I was not going to spoil this but here goes.
1. The first thing you are going to notice is the instrument placement - better isolation and pinpoint more information
2. 3D experience into a taller deeper soundstage.
3. ("Crossfeed" YES! - speaker sensation. I would say around 3-5%)
- it pushes the music a little more upfront in this sense. Not in the head experience.
4. Ambient information is more engaging
5. Musical
6. Weight to the instruments.
7. Layering is something different on this DDC. The reverbs on the different layers are noticeable even on R1N.
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From your post I got the impression you are expecting something from the DAC. I agree that the R1N is neutral, it is to the colder side vs R8H2, but also very honest. My impressions is still that Audio-gd does not stand in the way, but rather filling what's missing.
I am passing over 3000hours and I unfortunately don't share the same break-in experience. Mine was not very good in the start 600hours. I did not believe in break-in that much on Audio-gd as my R8H2 did not change much in this period...but the R1N only gets better. Mine was even a returned dac from another customer. It was horrible the first 100 hours for sure!
Also there are some areas where R8H2 shines. I was not trying to downplay it. It surely beats the R1N in the depth of the low-end better isolation of the bass melodies and gives an extra analog texture overall, R1N could stand to the colder side when it is alone. R8H2 sounds more meaty also. It has that "exhibition" "audio show" sound. It is big and bold...and also it has a better timing, musical presentation. Also it is every penny worth it...I am just saying the R1N is a robbery for the money. You need to hear it for yourself with bridge/ddc.
But if you want something from a DAC I don´t think Audio-gd is it. It is for the music and nothing in between. Yes they can lack personality/character but thats the point of it is not getting in your way of the music. If you want a DAC that takes your attention and make you think about the DAC/sound and not music.....I would strongly suggest you try other DACs as you mentioned for sure.
I mostly hate features and displays. There should only be a button to turn on the device for my preference. Filters in general and upscaling or oversampling right now in my journey = pointless. The only filters I play with now is NO and N1. NO is interesting with Master clock, and without N1 is more organic/raw.
Try other amps I think tubes needs to be in the more expensive end. Tube amps imo are suppose to even light up more holographic experience and not make it one dimensional
I'm not sure what the goal is. Neutral or exaggerated tones? These are opposites.
Because audio-gd gear in general is neutral, the tube amp would arguably give you the opposite. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy tube amps as well but they are two completely opposite things.
Before I had the r8, I had a denafrips ares ii, smsl su-9 and topping dx3 pro. I also have a shanling up4, ua2, fiio btr5, hiby r5g2 that I've tested as well. I would say the r8 is so far beyond those other dacs, the price difference doesnt even cover it.
I would disagree and say that r2r and tube amps are a match made in heaven. The r2r design amplifies the tubiness of the sound. I would say to the extent that its not doing the tube amp justice without an r2r dac.
Because audio-gd gear in general is neutral, the tube amp would arguably give you the opposite. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy tube amps as well but they are two completely opposite things.
Before I had the r8, I had a denafrips ares ii, smsl su-9 and topping dx3 pro. I also have a shanling up4, ua2, fiio btr5, hiby r5g2 that I've tested as well. I would say the r8 is so far beyond those other dacs, the price difference doesnt even cover it.
I would disagree and say that r2r and tube amps are a match made in heaven. The r2r design amplifies the tubiness of the sound. I would say to the extent that its not doing the tube amp justice without an r2r dac.
Further testing between R8H2 vs R1N.
R8H2 is very warm/dark as stock sound. Buying silver cables does very good things on this however still using the MWAY/ACSS copper:
I wanted the same airy tops as R1N by accident I actually discovered that R8H2 reminds on R1N between filters: As Kingwa also describes in the manual. Going up in OS it gets less warm…I find the tops airy now with copper/ACSS.
Between N1-O4 it matches the R1N airy tops but gets a “synthetical” better soundstage and more sound/information.
I could see/use this option as compensation for “silver cables” kind of.
I will be doing more test with silver cables back and forth.
NEXT: Silver/ACSS vs NO-N1-O2-O4
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O8 made the sound “sterile” not preferred at all
R8H2 is very warm/dark as stock sound. Buying silver cables does very good things on this however still using the MWAY/ACSS copper:
I wanted the same airy tops as R1N by accident I actually discovered that R8H2 reminds on R1N between filters: As Kingwa also describes in the manual. Going up in OS it gets less warm…I find the tops airy now with copper/ACSS.
Between N1-O4 it matches the R1N airy tops but gets a “synthetical” better soundstage and more sound/information.
I could see/use this option as compensation for “silver cables” kind of.
I will be doing more test with silver cables back and forth.
NEXT: Silver/ACSS vs NO-N1-O2-O4
—-
O8 made the sound “sterile” not preferred at all
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With the R8Mk3 and higher AGD DACs there are two NOS modes:
N0 : New NOS mode.
N1 : Basic NOS mode.
What exactly are the differences?
Thx
N0 : New NOS mode.
N1 : Basic NOS mode.
What exactly are the differences?
Thx
Nayyte
500+ Head-Fier
I agree to some extent. The neutrality of my R-1nos is really not like anything I've heard before. I would also say that r2r and tubes is indeed a great match but not so much for already exaggerated and fast styles of music. I've used Gorillaz as an example a lot since I like them so much but their music is already punchy with large dynamic swings. Through my chain they are just too fatiguing with headphones, I bet speakers would be heavenly. Music like brass ensemble, slow jazz, and choir sounds like perfection.
I've loved the ZMF Auteur OG ever since I got a used pair last year. I know it is referred as a bright leaning headphone but I never experienced it as such, just having awesome upper extension and clarity to my ears. That was when I was just using my CMA400i alone. My Auteur fed through r2r + tubes have turned them to being more neutral and less fun, with the brightness shining through. It's really crazy how swaping source gear can change a headphone so much. I definitely understand why people prefer using warmer amps with shyer upper mids/treble sections.
But when using the chain with my LCD-2 it's like a totally new headphone. The tonality of the audeze has not changed and has sort of blossomed. The bass isn't as muddy as before and that region has expanded greatly. Vocals have more texture and upper treble has more finesse and liquidity. A really nice pairing. I hope to swap in a AKM DAC soon to see if I could get that same feeling but was the added visceral nature of chip DACs.
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Hi all 
Long time lurker, but finally took the plunge today, as Iam very keen on the Audio-GD dacs. As a brief introduction, I've been on a dac search for almost 3 years now. Since dealer presence is sparse in my area, been using youtube videos to audition gear as best as I can. Yeah I know that is flawed, but it is better than buying blind
The only dac i auditioned in my room is a Gustard X26 pro, and liked it a lot. It was more detailed than what I presently have, but its stage width was relatively smaller.
I recently acquired a pair of pre-loved audio-GD master 2H mono blocks, which really impressed with their tonal colour and texture. And that coming from a tube guy running 845 SET's and EL34's can be considered high praise. Though the bass is more than I could accommodate in my small room, they are a keeper for me considering how real everything sounds on them, especially strings, piano and Vocals.
Then today by chance, i saw a comparative video of dacs on youtube by Alpha audio, where the Audio-GD R1 was included. Even on the brief bits of testing, I could discern how the R1 was noticeably richer and colourful in tone. Very similar to the Master 2H amps. Which is exactly what I seek.
So, below are my 2 queries :
1. Understand that the R1 is NOS and could be slightly different from the other dacs in the family. So in case I go with the R7HE MK III, will it preserve that tonality I heard with the R1. Or does it sound different. Ideally the R1's tonal colours and saturation, with albeit more details like the Gustard X26 pro, and an expansive stage will be end game for me.
2. I see that a twin case option is available for the R7HE MK3, has anyone seen it in the flesh by any chance. The single chasis version is really big and heavy. Probably a twin box, with the regenerative supply and dac section separated will be easier to handle and might also improve sonics. Hence curious about this. Any pics will be lovely to gaze upon.
Thanks in advance for your time and feedback.
Long time lurker, but finally took the plunge today, as Iam very keen on the Audio-GD dacs. As a brief introduction, I've been on a dac search for almost 3 years now. Since dealer presence is sparse in my area, been using youtube videos to audition gear as best as I can. Yeah I know that is flawed, but it is better than buying blind
The only dac i auditioned in my room is a Gustard X26 pro, and liked it a lot. It was more detailed than what I presently have, but its stage width was relatively smaller.
I recently acquired a pair of pre-loved audio-GD master 2H mono blocks, which really impressed with their tonal colour and texture. And that coming from a tube guy running 845 SET's and EL34's can be considered high praise. Though the bass is more than I could accommodate in my small room, they are a keeper for me considering how real everything sounds on them, especially strings, piano and Vocals.
Then today by chance, i saw a comparative video of dacs on youtube by Alpha audio, where the Audio-GD R1 was included. Even on the brief bits of testing, I could discern how the R1 was noticeably richer and colourful in tone. Very similar to the Master 2H amps. Which is exactly what I seek.
So, below are my 2 queries :
1. Understand that the R1 is NOS and could be slightly different from the other dacs in the family. So in case I go with the R7HE MK III, will it preserve that tonality I heard with the R1. Or does it sound different. Ideally the R1's tonal colours and saturation, with albeit more details like the Gustard X26 pro, and an expansive stage will be end game for me.
2. I see that a twin case option is available for the R7HE MK3, has anyone seen it in the flesh by any chance. The single chasis version is really big and heavy. Probably a twin box, with the regenerative supply and dac section separated will be easier to handle and might also improve sonics. Hence curious about this. Any pics will be lovely to gaze upon.
Thanks in advance for your time and feedback.
The answer from Kingwa:
Dear Matthias,
The different is on the FPGA hardware process methods.
The basec NOS mode is follow the OS mode method but remove the oversampling process design.
The new NOS mode is bypass the OS mode process ,create the new process method, on the hardware this is very simple process .
Kingwa
My experience in short sentence:
From R1N which is on the neutral side, the R8H2 is more warm and saturated.
R1N feels like a “toned” down version both in warmth and resolution. Very simplistic sounding and easy to digest.
R8H2 is “just” more of everything.
I would say speaker/headphones can be bottleneck on R8H2.
—
Filters I prefer no higher than O2 after some testing. The best one for me without master clock is N1. The real NOS. The NO/new feels/sounds experimental and ambient information feels more alive. Deeper visible soundstage…with Master clock
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Thanks,
how does sound the standard R8 (without regenerative PS) in comparison to the R1N and the R8HE?
I actually think that DAC might be the sweetspot. Best of both DACs.
R8H2 is more to the laidback side where R1N has more energy/exciting.
Fun part is I like them both equally.
From what I know between these dacs R1N/R8H2. I would also buy the R8M3 if I had the money/budget.
The R8H2 has some of the best lowend control I have heard. It feels like a whole seperate layer. It is placed lower in the sterero image with a lot of room for bass melodies. The R1N has it more mixed “into” the music even though it is still isolated, and feels like the listener is part of the band. R8H2 makes you watch the music being played like you are in the audience and hear the room informations more. OS will emphasize this information even more, with less warm. Too high OS feels synthetic to me.
All this I still have curiousity for the R8MK3. Because of how easy the R1N is to digest.
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