[Stillhart]

  I don't want more treble. Honestly, I crave for less treble and thicker sound. Let me put it in this way:
 
Dac-19 is a better option because:
1- Has less treble
2- Has thicker sound
3- Sounds more realistic
 
nfb-28 is a better option because:
1- Is much cheaper (around 500$ cheaper)
2- Is completely balanced (I don't know how much difference does it make)
3- According to my emails with Kingwa, with using a monster power cable, nfb-28 can sound as warm as something like nfb10.33
 
Here is my question:
"Don't you recommend any other of your products that are warmer and thicker sounding?
What is your idea about NFB-10.33 or a dac like DAC-19 ?
Do you think that Monster power cable can make nfb28 to sound as warm/thick as dac19 or nfb-10.33?"
 
This is his answer:
" The proper power cable can make the sound warm as the NFB10.33. But the Monster cable had different mode, not every mode had the much warm sound.
You can consider get the NFB10.33 had the warm and smooth sound ."

 
 
 
Thank you very much. It was really helpful.
My main concern is that will I be able to hear those differences? I mainly listen to rock/metal and many of them are not recorded/mastered very well and distortions are inherent of all songs.
You can save me a lot of money if you can try another power cables with your nfb-28 and see whether it makes nfb-28 to sound warmer/thicker or not.

 
I'm not going to say Kingwa is wrong, but it seems like you're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.  If you know you want a warmer and thicker sound, just get the 10.33 (Wolfson DAC) and enjoy it.  Move up to the DAC-19 when you have the cash and you're ready for a big jump in SQ.

 

[Youth]

Do you prefer the dry sound of schiit amps or do you want something just as detailed yet a euphonic and musical sound all while being balanced with a detailed 3D like sound stage never lacking the subtle nuances of instruments we clearly miss in most Dac implementations. The dac19 is surely a good combo but be sure you pair it well with a good amp. Personally I would choose the nfb1amp if you have xlr 4pin connections for your headphones. If you have 6.3mm then get the c2 11th aniv amp. Both are nearly the same( nfb1amp is 2000mw per channel PURE class A, yet fully balanced output) and the c2 is Single ended 6.3mm yet 3000mw per channel PURE class A. I still would choose nfb1amp myself and just re-terminate headphones with 4pin xlr eidolic TECU connectors. That's my two cents.

Between the gmb and dac19, well. They both are good choices. I know the dac19 has a sound that Is truly special all while being insanely detailed with no issues of long listening sessions. In other words, no fatigue. schiit products are known to be fatiguing even for short couple hour sessions. Their high end Multibit still is a bit too dry imho. Detailed, yes, but simply tiresome for more than 3-4hours.
I owned a DAC19 for a couple months and decided to get an all in one setup that was similar in sound. The pcm1704uk is a great r2r Dac and the best implementation yet is from Audio-GD / Kingwa.
If you are a lover of music, the dac19 will leave you in awe.
I ended up getting a master11 for the reason of fully balanced and an insanely powerful pure class A amp. My headphones are not too efficient so they pair well with the m11 since it has power to spare with any headphones. If you can afford a Master11, by all means you will not regret it. But the dac19 is all around 97% of the m11 for a fraction of the price. But the biggest mistake would be pairing it with a less than desireable amp. Personally I think even the liquid carbon isn't all that powerful for what it is. The nfb1amp is truly a lot of bang for buck without cutting corners on quality. It would make for a sweet looking audio-Gd stack. I would put the dac19 on top of nfb1amp and call it a day. That's a close to end game setup for most people and beyond expectations of most audio enthusiasts.

The question is, have you hear the dac19? Or or similar? Master7, master11? Red 10.32?

I think the gmb is cool in its own and glad that schiit has offered an alternative to the YGGdrasil. Albeit a lower end chip selection. Still good! I would still stick with audio-gd being the music lover I am. I listen for long sessions and that's means 8hours or more in a day. I've only managed that with ease with the audio-Gd dac19/nfb1amp or c2 or what I have now is master11 (my end game setup)

I want to like schiit products but they fall short in many ways.
If you get a dac19 you will feel confident with your decision once you sit down for a long listening session and appreciate why everyone has nothing by extremely positive reviews.

I want to reiterate that both are good choices, but if you get s chance to hear them both side by side it's likely you will still prefer the sound of the Dac19.

Lastly, to answer your question about pairing well with T1.2 or A2. I see you are clearly a fan of Beyer headphones. They do have a nice neutral sound and to some they are even a bit bright. I believe the dac19 would be a closer match for beyers than the GMB. That's my opinion. Strongly dependent on the amp you choose to use too. Of course!!! The A2 I would not even consider for a second due to it being insanely overpriced for the performance you get. The audio-go nfb1amp or c2 could run circles around the A2 is just about all categories and a fraction of the cost. Seriously. And you can output acss from the dac19. The amanero combo 384 in the dac19 is great. I tried a wyrd and found no improvement. The only USB device that reclocks or cleans up would be the USB regen Amber from uptime. That's a legit device. I owned two wyrds and sold one as the benefit was not comparable to the USB regen Amber. I'm rambling, back to the A2... The specs can't even come close to audio-gd and if you did the ultimate test, listen... The amps are what audio-Gd is really known for. Do yourself a favor and save about a grand by changing your mind on the Beyer A2 and pick yourself up a nfb1amp and a pair of acss cables. Your Beyer headphones will pair MUCH better with this setup. You can get a dac19 and the nfb1amp for about the price of a Beyer A2. An educated choice that will deliver performance of $5000+ Dac/amp setups. Please consider this route! You won't regret it.
The nfb1amp power specs are:
9900MW / 25 ohm
8000MW / 40 ohm
3500MW / 100 ohm
1200MW / 300 ohm
600MW / 600 ohm

Pure class A is 2000mw per channel @40ohm (per Kingwa)
And c2 amp is:
Pure class A 3000mw per channel @40ohm

Which makes more sense? For me? Nfb1amp. All my stuff is balanced.
Kingwa states the nfb1amp is most neutral and the c2 amp is slightly more warm in its sound signature.
　
Also both the c2 and nfb1amp have he relay based super exponential volume control that is far superior than most amps's.

I haven't heard anyone say that the dac19 had any particular headphones that didn't pair extremely well. It's so musical that it brings the best out of any headphone.

I have to add one last note... I had the dac19 for a portion when it was paired with my fiance's nfb28 (2015 edition) and the nfb28 was the amp for the dac19. It didn't do justice for the dac19 as the amp side was not as nice as a c2 or nfb1amp. But pretty darn good either way. Definitely an improvement with the nfb1amp or c2!
I just wanted an all in one unit with massive power, the m11 was my answer. I know have the most beastly Dac/amp for my end game setup. One owner on the M11 thread has commented that he sold his Yggdrasil because the m11 has superior musical sound that allowed him to listen for long uninterrupted listening sessions. The DAC19 is essentially the little brother to the m11 and has a very very similar sound.
audio-gd > Schiit
IMHO. That's comparing the pcm1704uk dac19/nfb1amp/c2 or TOTL m11 against the GMB/mjolnir or TOTL YGG/Rag.

I don't want to buy into hype. I'm all about listening to all these products and making educated decisions. The price is definitely hard to beat too. Simply listen and hopefully for extended periods to truly appreciate the audio-gd house sound. It's euphonic. Audio-gd runs circles around the schiit gmb/mjolnir and Beyer a2.

 
I think you have just saved both my wallet and my ears, thank you so much for taken the time to write this very helpfull post! 

 
You have convinced me to drop the A2 and go full Audio-GD. Before I continue here is some details:
 
- I'm gonna be listening to music on my PC, so I will be using USB.
- I'm gonna buy the T1.2: http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/t-1-2-gen.html
- I might buy the DT 1770 Pro: http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/dt-1770-pro.html
- I'm gonna buy CDs and rip them into 16/44 FLAC (I don't know if all are mastered well/compressed)
- I will probably use foobar2000
- I live in Denmark
 
 
I have a few questions:
 
Will the Audio GD stuff work with DT 1770 Pro?
 
What is the difference between balanced cable and the normal cable? Does balanced sound better?
 
What is  acss cable you speak of? 
 
What is manero combo 384?
 
Wouldn't c2 11th aniv amp be better for the T1 than the nfb1amp since you say it's a bit warmer, or would that be a bad pairing with the aleady warmish DAC 19?
 
How is the Master 11 compared to DAC 19/one of the two amps you mentioned?
 
How is the USB REGEN compared to Audioquest Jitterbug? 

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to understand.

 

[Stillhart]

Those are some pretty broad questions.  I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but I suggest you research some of this stuff and come back with more specific questions.  I'm happy to help, but some of this is very easily explained with a quick search...

 

[bimmer100]

  I don't want more treble. Honestly, I crave for less treble and thicker sound. Let me put it in this way:
 
Dac-19 is a better option because:
1- Has less treble
2- Has thicker sound
3- Sounds more realistic
 
nfb-28 is a better option because:
1- Is much cheaper (around 500$ cheaper)
2- Is completely balanced (I don't know how much difference does it make)
3- According to my emails with Kingwa, with using a monster power cable, nfb-28 can sound as warm as something like nfb10.33
 
Here is my question:
"Don't you recommend any other of your products that are warmer and thicker sounding?
What is your idea about NFB-10.33 or a dac like DAC-19 ?
Do you think that Monster power cable can make nfb28 to sound as warm/thick as dac19 or nfb-10.33?"
 
This is his answer:
" The proper power cable can make the sound warm as the NFB10.33. But the Monster cable had different mode, not every mode had the much warm sound.
You can consider get the NFB10.33 had the warm and smooth sound ."

 
 
 
Thank you very much. It was really helpful.
My main concern is that will I be able to hear those differences? I mainly listen to rock/metal and many of them are not recorded/mastered very well and distortions are inherent of all songs.
You can save me a lot of money if you can try another power cables with your nfb-28 and see whether it makes nfb-28 to sound warmer/thicker or not.

 
what power cables do you have in mind that will actually make a difference that is notable. 
 
I used Pange AC14SE power cables with all my gear.
all my gear is powered from a PS Audio PS300 AC regenerator with Multiwave2...yet running pure sinewave 60hz @ 118V.
 
 
Warmer can be achieved by the amp you choose moreso than the cable you choose. and the DAC you choose. Listen to stillhart and get a cheapy Wolfson dac. If all you listen to is metal than who cares. It's not that important for quality since you listen to melodic distortions anyhow. Even better, look at tube amps too.
 
If you listen to natural and clean sounding instruments with high end recordings than you will appreciate the R2R sound.
 
Otherwise, save your money. Get a a 10.33 wolfson Audio-gd and be happy.
 

 
don't spend too much on cables either. Sounds like your main focus is heavy metal stuff. I don't believe a cable will make a NFB28 sound as warm as a Wolfson dac / 10.33... don't believe that one bit. The sabre is just outright NOT a good match for metal music IMHO. Tube amp or some wolfson is your best bet. R2R does well too, but why bother is what i'm saying...

 

[Stillhart]

Haha, that was a bit harsh.  I get your point, but it may have come across a bit more critical than you intended.
 
I have a NFB-15, which has the same DAC's as the 10.33 and I really like it.  I use it every day at work.  Yes, it's colored and warm, but if that's what you're looking for than I say go for it and enjoy.  One of the best sounding setups I've ever owned was the HD650 with a tube amp and Wolfson DAC.  Nothing in the chain was stellar on its own, but damn did it sound good together!

 

[Youth]

  Those are some pretty broad questions.  I hope this doesn't come across as rude, but I suggest you research some of this stuff and come back with more specific questions.  I'm happy to help, but some of this is very easily explained with a quick search...

 
What does broad mean? Sorry, English is not my native language.

 

[Stillhart]

   
What does broad mean? Sorry, English is not my native language.

 
My apologies.  I meant that those questions are very big and wide.  It would take a lot of writing to answer them, but most have been answered other places.  I suggest finding the answers to some of the big questions (like SE vs balanced) and then come back when you can ask more specific (smaller, easier to deal with) questions.

 

[x RELIC x]

Pretty sure that a power cable isn't going to make up the major difference with what the DAC-19 brings to the table. The biggest difference I heard was MORE micro detail and resonance that the Delta-Sigma implementations gloss over / smear / misinterpret / approximate. I'm talking about the low level stuff, the stuff that's hard to put your finger on but is easily recognized in comparison.

For example when I listen to Another Brick in the Wall Part1 on the DAC-19 I hear the high hats go 'tSHisssss Tss ts - tSHisssss Tss ts - tSHisssss Tss ts - tSHisssss Tss ts'. From my Sabre based HA-1 DAC I hear 'sssh s - sssh s - sssh s - sssh s'. The difference is not subtle and no power cable will give you that. Both comparisons using the balanced amp of the HA-1.

As far as warmth is concerned I don't find the DAC-19 to be warmer than the HA-1 Sabre DAC. It's just that there is more realism to the bass, more gravitas, more impact, more depth, all of this when called for........ no added warmth or coloration, just added realism / texture / depth.

As for guitar distortion the DAC-19 handles intended guitar distortion very well. It sounds like real guitar amplifier distortion instead of noise like on other systems. Again, the difference is clearly noticble to me.

 

[Youth]

   
My apologies.  I meant that those questions are very big and wide.  It would take a lot of writing to answer them, but most have been answered other places.  I suggest finding the answers to some of the big questions (like SE vs balanced) and then come back when you can ask more specific (smaller, easier to deal with) questions.

 
Oh, well a small and precise explanation will do fine also 

 That being said I would be happy to read about it. I will try google SE vs balanced and read what I find.

 

[bimmer100]

   
I think you have just saved both my wallet and my ears, thank you so much for taken the time to write this very helpfull post! 

 
You have convinced me to drop the A2 and go full Audio-GD. Before I continue here is some details:
 
- I'm gonna be listening to music on my PC, so I will be using USB.  Get a good USB card like the Eifidelity USB (budget) or a Paul Pang V2 or Paul Pang V3 OXCO (expensive).... but power them with a nice but cheap linear power supply like the teradak brand. ask me more if interested. But clean USB source is key.
 
- I'm gonna buy the T1.2: http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/music-pleasure/t-1-2-gen.html 
- I might buy the DT 1770 Pro: http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/dt-1770-pro.html - Not sure why you are most interested in this headphone, wish I have heard them to better judge - I would say a pair of Hifiman HE560, HIFIMAN HE1000, or Ether Carbon's would be options to consider. or budget headphones for the Oppo PM3.
- I'm gonna buy CDs and rip them into 16/44 FLAC (I don't know if all are mastered well/compressed)
- I will probably use foobar2000 Consider Jriver, I prefer it over Foobar2000 personally, yet foobar is pretty good overall.
- I live in Denmark
 
GOOD! save your money and your ears! go Audio-gd - off subject, but sorry for all the darn typos in my post. IT was done on my iphone6. :/
 
 
I have a few questions:
 
Will the Audio GD stuff work with DT 1770 Pro? Audio-gd should work with any headphones - most of their amps are powerful enough for anything.
 
What is the difference between balanced cable and the normal cable? Does balanced sound better? This is a touchy subject with some people - haha.... My opinion is I prefer balanced as the soundstage seems to be improved subtley and is separated a little better. Also each speaker has it's own ground and more power going to each speaker when in balanced mode. I prefer all my headphones to be terminated with a quality cable like that from Norne Audio. And terminated with Eidolic Tecu or Tellerium copper XLR 4pin balanced connectors. Everything I have is balanced. A simple connector to convert to 6.3mm SE is easy and cheap...If I ever choose to use SE.
 
What is  acss cable you speak of?  ACSS is a technology that Audio-GD uses that has an improvement in the noise floor being reduced and SQ improved over other options such as XLR or RCA. Read more about it on the Audio-gd website. "The ACSS is a non-feedback technology made with fully discrete amplifiers. Most people know the global feedback design can offer better specs in test measurements, and classic non-feedback can't do well in test measurements but can offer better sound for the human's ears. Here is a conflict of the classic circuits. But the ACSS opens a new field, it can offer a least coloration sound which is more neutral with very low distortion and high linearity. So it can retain the dynamics, detail and neutral sound but not sound bright or harsh."
 
What is Amanero combo 384? It's a USB interface that is available to most Audio-GD dacs. It's a very very low jitter USB interface that offers very smooth and detailed sound via the USB interface. Highly recommend for you!!!
 
Wouldn't c2 11th aniv amp be better for the T1 than the nfb1amp since you say it's a bit warmer, or would that be a bad pairing with the aleady warmish DAC 19? difference is very subtle - the Dac19 I would call neutral over warm. And both amps are very neutral over being warm or bright. Only slightly warmer is the C2. nearly same. Personally I would terminate your headphones to 4pin XLR Eidolic TECU.  I can get you some pretty darn good deals with Norne Audio if you PM me and i'll introduce you to Trevor @norne. He can educate you a bit on cables and connections etc. 
 
How is the Master 11 compared to DAC 19/one of the two amps you mentioned?  Both are fantastic setups - my personal opinion is to go all out and get the end game setup... the Master 11 is absolutely over the top amazing for the money. It out performs just about everything out there. I would personally say it's better than most dac/amps in the 5,000-10000 USD range. It's a TOTL setup that will bring you bliss to your ears. Yah yah...i'm sounding like i'm hyping it up. But for the money it's really impressive. The DAC19/NFB1amp is nearly the performance yet the DAC19 is Single End and only 2 PCM1704UK chips, while the M11 has 4 and a helluva bigger and better amp!!! the specs are brutal and amazing in fact!
Master 11 Amp specs:
16000MW /  25 ohm 

8000MW /  50 ohm 

 4000MW  /  100 ohm

1300MW / 300 ohm

650 MW / 600 ohm
 
How is the USB REGEN compared to Audioquest Jitterbug?  - the Uptone USB Regen Amber is in it's own class. It fixes the issues with USB Phy IC noise by correcting USB cable issues that are not matched for proper impedance of 90ohm. It is installed directly to the back of the dac (shortest path) and it makes the sound with an audible improvement over the Jitterbug, Wyrd, IFI purifyer etc etc. It's not the same type of USB device. Read up here http://www.audiostream.com/content/uptone-audio-usb-regen
 

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to understand. I'm happy to help and give you my opinions, others may share different points of view but take everything with a grain of salt and choose what is right for you. 

 

[x RELIC x]

bimmer100 have you compared the SE Line out from the Master 11 to the balanced Line out? Wondering what differences you hear from the DAC balanced vs SE with the AGD PCM1704UK implementation. I may jump on the Master 11 and sell my DAC-19 (love this DAC to death) and HA-1 to fund it.

 

[wahsmoh]

@bimmer100 have you compared the SE Line out from the Master 11 to the balanced Line out? Wondering what differences you hear from the DAC balanced vs SE with the AGD PCM1704UK implementation. I may jump on the Master 11 and sell my DAC-19 (love this DAC to death) and HA-1 to fund it.

hehe if you sell that DAC-19 I'll be on it quick

 

 

[Stillhart]

 
hehe if you sell that DAC-19 I'll be on it quick

 

 
Oooh.  I know you love your Progeny; I'd be curious to see what you think of the DAC-19.  I think it'll be somewhat of a sidegrade sound-wise, but curious nonetheless.

 

[evillamer]

@bimmer100
 
New recommendation for you: corning optical usb cable + uptoneregen/wyrd. Say goodbye* to usb packet noise.
 
* http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-corning-usb-3-optical.html

 

[bimmer100]

@bimmer100


New recommendation for you: corning optical usb cable + uptoneregen/wyrd. Say goodbye* to usb packet noise.

* http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-corning-usb-3-optical.html

Actually the guy at uptone did further testing on the Corning optical USB cables and found them to have other issues and actually are a step down in performance. Interesting I thought. But I decided against those.