[intrepidcase]

 

I think you are misunderstanding - yes the NOS-19 will definitely sound better than the DAC-19 in "NOS" mode i.e. no oversampling.  But that doesn't mean that everyone will prefer no oversampling - be it on the NOS-19 or in DAC-19 NOS mode - to the standard 8x oversampling in the DAC-19 default mode. (or even 2x or 4x modes on DAC-19). Oversampling was created for a reason and not doing any oversampling has trade-offs. It's a preference, not a "better". In fact, I would guess that most people would prefer 8x DAC-19 oversampling vs NOS-19 no oversampling if they did an A/B test in most systems.
 
I don't understand the $80 difference to be honest. If the NOS modify instructions are the only difference between the models it makes no sense.

 

[intrepidcase]

afaik, the reason that the DAC-19 does not do well in pure NOS mode with no oversampling is because the master clock is attached to the right channel signal process line. This results in a timing imbalance between the channels when there is no oversampling. The NOS-19 model has fixed that hardware issue. And then instructions were provided to make this change yourself. Why they are charging $80 more for the NOS model doesn't add up - the only difference is the wiring change and different firmware. If someone else would like to correct me or clarify that would be great.

 

[EricGC]

Thanks for explain. I have never heard NOS sound, so can't tell. I hope someone can describe how it sounds compared to OS, and what kind of music NOS/OS is suited for?

 

[intrepidcase]

NOS will sound warmer, fuller, more 'natural' possibly. But it will sound muddier, less 'tight' and less clear. Those are inherent trade-offs, particular with red book music. With all due respect, I don't think a NOS DAC is suitable in your case if you have never heard one or know why you would want one. If the NOS-19 simply sounded better than the DAC-19 then they wouldn't be selling the DAC-19 anymore.
 
From the NOS-19 page on the Audio-GD site:
 
"The oversampling design and NOS design had different sound characteristic ,it is not which is better but depend on the customer's prefer."

 

[EricGC]

I am not sure how this mod works, but seems like once mod is done, an NOS19 can't run in OS mode anymore?
 
Some high end brand, e.g. Metrum, Audio Note, only offer NOS DAC. Why? Not only NOS DACs cost more to build, they must also sound good to make the sale.

 

[intrepidcase]

  I am not sure how this mod works, but seems like once mod is done, an NOS19 can't run in OS mode anymore?
 
Some high end brand, e.g. Metrum, Audio Note, only offer NOS DAC. Why? Not only NOS DACs cost more to build, they must also sound good to make the sale.

The mod is to the DAC-19, not the NOS19. And yes, once modded it can't run in oversampling mode anymore. NOS dac's are not inherently more expensive to build. This is getting silly.
 
I am not sure what your point is anymore - some high-end brands only sell tube amps, some only sell solid state amps. Some car makers offer stick-shift only, some fancy automatics.

 

[EricGC]

I am hesitating between DAC19 and NOS19. I thought NOS19 is more expensive so it *should* sound better. It might not be the case. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[EricGC]

For DAC19/NOS19, USB is 384k, while Coaxial and Optical are 96k. But from feedback in this thread, Coaxial and Optical sound better than USB?
 
So it makes sense to get I2S-HDMI, and use SU-1 to get best sound? Otherwise use Coaxial and Optical, still better than USB (even with Amanero combo384 module).
 
From what I read from this forum, DAC19 has best performance/price ratio in $1000 range. How is it directly compared to Metrum Musette, gungnir MB, etc.? How is it compared to some DIY DAC, like DDDAC, ANKITS DAC 2.1/3.1, Twisted Pear Buffalo, Soekris DAC 1101? Many of these DIY DACs are R2R.

 

[Hansotek]

For DAC19/NOS19, USB is 384k, while Coaxial and Optical are 96k. But from feedback in this thread, Coaxial and Optical sound better than USB?

So it makes sense to get I2S-HDMI, and use SU-1 to get best sound? Otherwise use Coaxial and Optical, still better than USB (even with Amanero combo384 module).

From what I read from this forum, DAC19 has best performance/price ratio in $1000 range. How is it directly compared to [COLOR=660099]Metrum Musette[/COLOR], gungnir MB, etc.? How is it compared to some DIY DAC, like DDDAC, ANKITS DAC 2.1/3.1, Twisted Pear Buffalo, Soekris DAC 1101? Many of these DIY DACs are R2R.

I can speak to a couple of those. The Metrum Musette is very slightly better than the DAC-19, but just by a hair. They are so close it is hard to even pick out individual differences, but the Musette is the better sounding DAC, IMHO. The Schiit Gumby is pretty close as well, but a bit more forward than the other two. The only clear advantage of Gumby is that it is balanced - if you are running a fully balanced setup, Gumby is the pick. If you are just running SE, I'd opt for the Musette or DAC-19 instead. The Soekris DAC-1011 is not on the level of the other 3 mentioned here. It is decent, but at the end of the day, it is clearly a level below. FWIW though, the amp in the Soekris is extremely underrated; it can drive planars pretty well, which is impressive for a portable/transportable device. I can't comment on the other DACs you mentioned. I'd love to get some time with the Twisted Pear Buffalo.

 

[intrepidcase]

I can speak to a couple of those. The Metrum Musette is very slightly better than the DAC-19, but just by a hair. They are so close it is hard to even pick out individual differences, but the Musette is the better sounding DAC, IMHO. The Schiit Gumby is pretty close as well, but a bit more forward than the other two. The only clear advantage of Gumby is that it is balanced - if you are running a fully balanced setup, Gumby is the pick. If you are just running SE, I'd opt for the Musette or DAC-19 instead. The Soekris DAC-1011 is not on the level of the other 3 mentioned here. It is decent, but at the end of the day, it is clearly a level below. FWIW though, the amp in the Soekris is extremely underrated; it can drive planars pretty well, which is impressive for a portable/transportable device. I can't comment on the other DACs you mentioned. I'd love to get some time with the Twisted Pear Buffalo.

And with respect to EricGC's question about an optimal digital chain - the Musette doesn't do I2S so I would guess that an SU-1 via I2S into a DAC-19 might move ahead of the Musette a bit. I see the SU-1 as a class A outboard USB input (the Amanero just converts USB to I2S on it's board). Of course, if you aren't starting with a USB source then the SU-1 is moot.
 
I almost went for the Gumby because of the balanced outputs but didn't for a few reasons:
 
- it's more $$
- it can't do I2S and has a poor USB implementation from reviews.
- head-to-head reviews suggested that Gumby balanced = DAC-19 unbalanced and that the Gumby was too forward as you mention - and is not kind to rock/harder music. The DAC-19 is more forgiving.
 
On the final point re sound character - the DAC-19 has finally allowed me to completely enjoy listening to Zeppelin, Rush, etc without my ears hurting. For that I am very grateful.
 
In my system (Mac Mini source), the DAC-19 provides the naturalness and warmth, and the SU-1 brings out the clarity and soundstage. I also have an Intona but not sure how much that helps with the SU-1 inline - I see it more as a decrapifier for the poor USB output of a pc/mac.

 

[Pharmaboy]

 
And with respect to EricGC's question about an optimal digital chain - the Musette doesn't do I2S so I would guess that an SU-1 via I2S into a DAC-19 might move ahead of the Musette a bit. I see the SU-1 as a class A outboard USB input (the Amanero just converts USB to I2S on it's board). Of course, if you aren't starting with a USB source then the SU-1 is moot.
 
I almost went for the Gumby because of the balanced outputs but didn't for a few reasons:
 
- it's more $$
- it can't do I2S and has a poor USB implementation from reviews.
- head-to-head reviews suggested that Gumby balanced = DAC-19 unbalanced and that the Gumby was too forward as you mention - and is not kind to rock/harder music. The DAC-19 is more forgiving.
 
On the final point re sound character - the DAC-19 has finally allowed me to completely enjoy listening to Zeppelin, Rush, etc without my ears hurting. For that I am very grateful.
 
In my system (Mac Mini source), the DAC-19 provides the naturalness and warmth, and the SU-1 brings out the clarity and soundstage. I also have an Intona but not sure how much that helps with the SU-1 inline - I see it more as a decrapifier for the poor USB output of a pc/mac.

 
I have a NOS 19 and find it superior in just about every way to all other DACs I've heard. When I switch in another DAC for this or that reason (including Audio GD's own rather find NFB-15.32), it sounds a little sharper, more hyped in transients, and the bass seems dryer, less natural.
 
I briefly tested my coax (via Musical Fidelity V-Link/192 + oyaide 510 RCA digital cable) vs the NOS 19's USB input (which has Amannero mod)--and preferred coax. The differences was small, but all in the direction of the sound I seek--a bit more warmth, resonance, space around notes, etc.
 
The SU-1 is on my short list of system upgrades, along with an improved PS for the USB Regen, the Supra 2.0 USB cable, and a few other trinkets.
 
But you really have to keep something in mind when talking about the DAC-19 or NOS 19: these units change in sound rather markedly over time. When I first read this thread, I thought it crazy that people talked about sound changes up to & beyond 500 hrs of burn-in. But after listening to my NOS 19 do exactly that, I no longer think it's crazy; in fact, I wouldn't doubt there are even more changes, albeit fairly subtle, as time marches on.

 

[EricGC]

If you have it on all the time but don't feed it with audio signal, does that count as burn-in time? That way 1 month will be good enough?

 

[EricGC]

Thanks for the info.

The dddac and ankits 3.1 are actually in $2000 range. I have read some reviews saying Audio-gd Master 7 is slightly better than these 2.

Soekris DAC-1011 may have lowest cost, but it requires some diy experience to build.

So there seems no surprise or miracle here - we can safely say that dac19 is a good performer in its own category?

Also from many reviews I read, unlike amp, tube DAC does not necessarily have sonic advantages over solid state. I have a tube preamp and a 300b SET amp, both use RCA. I guess I won't go wrong with DAC 19.

I can speak to a couple of those. The Metrum Musette is very slightly better than the DAC-19, but just by a hair. They are so close it is hard to even pick out individual differences, but the Musette is the better sounding DAC, IMHO. The Schiit Gumby is pretty close as well, but a bit more forward than the other two. The only clear advantage of Gumby is that it is balanced - if you are running a fully balanced setup, Gumby is the pick. If you are just running SE, I'd opt for the Musette or DAC-19 instead. The Soekris DAC-1011 is not on the level of the other 3 mentioned here. It is decent, but at the end of the day, it is clearly a level below. FWIW though, the amp in the Soekris is extremely underrated; it can drive planars pretty well, which is impressive for a portable/transportable device. I can't comment on the other DACs you mentioned. I'd love to get some time with the Twisted Pear Buffalo.

 

[Hansotek]

If you have it on all the time but don't feed it with audio signal, does that count as burn-in time? That way 1 month will be good enough?

You should play music through it, but it doesn't have to output to anything.

 

[melody50]

Please share the experience the DAC used with CD Transport, I am planning to get the NOS version..