[Audeze]

  This is valid in the context of psychoacoustics, however, it does not explain the reason why there is such variance in frequency response exists between left and right channels of these headphones, particularly since most of it can be attributed to the shape and density of the pads.

Not correct. There are physical differences in shape of ears between left and right ears in measurement systems and they will show significant differences in measurement as well. If you are in LA area, we can show this to you in our lab very easily. 

 

[MilhouseV]

  Not correct. There are physical differences in shape of ears between left and right ears in measurement systems and they will show significant differences in measurement as well. If you are in LA area, we can show this to you in our lab very easily. 

I'm not debating whether a particular test head may produce different measurements at EEP.  However, a significantly less advanced tests appear to capture differences in frequency response of LCD headphones​' right and left channels, which get subsequently resolved by matching physical characteristics of right and left earpads (among other things) - while revealing other discrepancies and inconsistencies which could be attributed to poor manufacturing practices.

 

[Articnoise]

  If you measure your left ear and your right ear (shape, size etc), they will be different. This is true for most people. 

 

That almost all people have a bit different shaped, size etc. ears or that the left and right ears are different from each other was not what questioning.

 

I don’t feel like we are talking about the same thing, lol. Maybe am not very clear. You said that the left and right ear are “intentionally made differently”. To me that mean that you tune the right and left driver a bit different. And that the reason for this is that the left ear channel generally are shaped in one specific way and the right generally are shaped in another specific way.

 

[bfreedma]

 Not correct. There are physical differences in shape of ears between left and right ears in measurement systems and they will show significant differences in measurement as well. If you are in LA area, we can show this to you in our lab very easily. 

I'm not debating whether a particular test head may produce different measurements at EEP.  However, a significantly less advanced tests appear to capture differences in frequency response of LCD headphones​' right and left channels, which get subsequently resolved by matching physical characteristics of right and left earpads (among other things) - while revealing other discrepancies and inconsistencies which could be attributed to poor manufacturing practices.

I wouldn't make any absolute conclusions from a thread based on a sample size of one unit where the tester also managed to damage that LCD-3 beyond repair in an attempt to modify them.

 

[MilhouseV]

I wouldn't make any absolute conclusions from a thread based on a sample size of one unit where the tester also managed to damage that LCD-3 beyond repair in an attempt to modify them.

 
This would certainly be true for an inexperienced modder.  However, in this case, the individual happens to have an extensive experience with various planar headphones - Denon, Fostex.  He also completed a mod on another LCD-3, which showed improvements after the mod.

 

[Audeze]

We received one of the modded headphones for RMA repair. About half the magnets were missing (a first) and the diaphragm was ripped apart. We replaced the driver and sent it back. I am not sure if these are the same headphones being referred in the other thread. 

 

[Audeze]

   

That almost all people have a bit different shaped, size etc. ears or that the left and right ears are different from each other was not what questioning.

 

I don’t feel like we are talking about the same thing, lol. Maybe am not very clear. You said that the left and right ear are “intentionally made differently”. To me that mean that you tune the right and left driver a bit different. And that the reason for this is that the left ear channel generally are shaped in one specific way and the right generally are shaped in another specific way.

Yes. Lost in translation

 .   The left and right drivers on a headphone are not tuned differently. they are made identical to each other within manufacturing tolerance.
I was only referring to the graphs where it shows different frequency response because of the differences in ear shapes on dummy head. Hope that clears it up.

 

[MilhouseV]

  We received one of the modded headphones for RMA repair. About half the magnets were missing (a first) and the diaphragm was ripped apart. We replaced the driver and sent it back. I am not sure if these are the same headphones being referred in the other thread. 

Sounds like someone else was trying to mod the LCD.
 
The damaged set described in the other thread is still with the guy in Moscow.  Maybe you could help him out - he's been looking for a driver or a pair.

 

[Audeze]

 
I'm not debating whether a particular test head may produce different measurements at EEP.  However, a significantly less advanced tests appear to capture differences in frequency response of LCD headphones​' right and left channels, which get subsequently resolved by matching physical characteristics of right and left earpads (among other things) - while revealing other discrepancies and inconsistencies which could be attributed to poor manufacturing practices.

Without looking at the particular test, I cannot comment on its veracity. Will try to post some analysis of earpad differences etc next week. We can measure a bunch of them to show statistical differences. 

 

[Audeze]

We have even worked with many modders to help them customize the headphones. Some of the mods are really cool, some leave us scratching our head. The best modder for Planar headphones we have come across is @Kabeer

 

[MilhouseV]

I am quite certain that Snorry would gladly work with you on mods to LCD's. He has quite a following in Moscow, and the only drawback is his high expectations for quality of workmanship and precision machining of components and parts.

 

[MacedonianHero]

  Here is a bit more explanation about the graphs and measurement artifacts. Above 2kHz it is very difficult to measure headphones with dummy heads.
 
When transducers are measured, typically an IEC-standard baffle is used, where we see very tight and consistent response. Audeze’s transdcuers are matched in pairs using IEC Baffle.
Judging headphones’ performances above 2kHz just by using graphs is quite difficult. The dummy heads that are used can also be very different. There are several different models, and each comes with several sets of ears (small/med/big, male/female, etc). On top of all these variations, the microphone placement is also quite different. Some have the microphone near the entrance of the ear canal, some have it near the ear drum. If you measure one with a blocked ear canal then you don’t see the ear canal resonances, which are very important. We use 4 different types of testing rigs to measure headphones during manufacturing.
 
The ones we publish use a Neumann KU100. In this model, the microphone in the test rig picks up sound at the entrance of the ear and the positioning of the headphone makes a big difference in measurements above 2kHz. Slight changes in position results in significant changes in the measurements. When testing, we usually take 5 different position measurements and average it (Similar to what Tyll at Innerfidelity does). When using other rigs (eg - IEC baffle), this is not necessary and one measurement is sufficient. 
 
Here is a measurement of a non-audeze headphone taken from innerfidelity.
 

 
Here is the same audeze headphone measured with slightly different positions

 
 
Conclusion:
When measuring headphones on dummy heads, graphs will have measurement artifacts. This is true for not just Audeze headphones, but most other headphones as well. These are measurement artifacts, so you shouldn’t read too much into them and/or treat them literally. If you measure the same unit 5 times in an IEC baffle, the lines will be virtually indistinguishable.

 
These conclusions are very much in line with the work I did with Tyll a few years back...the reproducibility of the measurements is very strongly affected by positioning on the dummy head and the exact same pair of headphones could change several dB on the smallest changes in positioning. In case anyone is interested:
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/expert-tests-innerfidelitys-headphone-measurement-repeatability-and-reproducibility#MCFLjforHxSDCdOT.97

 

[NoxNoctum]

  Well now you've got me worried. It seems odd though that the LCD 2 *and* 3 would both start acting up at more or less the same time though...
 
I should note that I only hear it on my speaker amp, not my Lyr or EF-6. Also -- I can hear the noises even if I turn my DAC off... not sure what that signifies? I don't have any level of understanding techwise behind this stuff (yet 

)
 
 
@Audeze I see you're active in the thread -- please feel free to jump in here if you have any idea what could be going on.

Just so as not to sully Audeze's good name... my issue turned out to be a bad RCA cable. Although only the LCDs were having the problem initially, the HE-6 started to as well which is when I started looking at the other parts of my chain.

 

[Gibalok]

Listened lcd2 and lcd3 again.. Lcd2 are meaty but lcd3 are more refined.. But again.. I cant justify the price difference. ****ty marketing..

 

[marcan]

Listened lcd2 and lcd3 again.. Lcd2 are meaty but lcd3 are more refined.. But again.. I cant justify the price difference. ****ty marketing..

Which LCD2? Fazor, pre-fazor?