[grokit]

Get over it guys, I never said they sounded the same. What I meant by minimized is that the differences are not as exaggerated as they used to be in my perception. They obviously have very different sound signatures, but the experience of going back and forth between the two headphones isn't unpleasant at all anymore.

Even when I finally found a tube combo that seemed to compliment both cans, it would take a while for me to adjust to their different signatures. It used to take me a few days to make this adjustment, and during that adjustment period the HD800 would sound thin and dry in comparison to the warmth and lushness of the LCD2.1. Conversely, when switching to the 2.1 after the 800, the highs would sound rolled off to the point of missing detail, and the mid-bass was overpowering the rest of the spectrum.

Now that I have become more "psychacoustically adjusted" to (or more "intimately familiar" with) them, my brain has seemingly completed its learning curve and the adjustment between the two headphones happens instantly. I used to try and stick with one or the other for weeks at a time to avoid the unpleasantness of the adjustment period, and now that is no longer necessary.

Good thing because I really like variety and hate using any kind of equalizer. I moved my BBE hardware EQ to my desktop for easy access weeks ago and haven't even engaged it yet.

 

[Jamiee]

Don't worry grokit, they are disagreeing with me for my comments about the two headphones sounding different but not radically different

 
IMO, what you say is true, the two headphones sounded very very very different at the outset, but after being worked in I find them to have more in common sound wise than I was expecting. 
They are unmistakably different, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them night and day different.
I should also clarify that this is my opinion based on my own setup and gear.  For someone else the results might be a little different.
For example, I have certainly heard the HD800 sound quite different simply by driving them from a different amp.
 
 
BTW, the comment about the "dry hump mod" was particularly funny, but is one probably better off made behind closed doors

 

[rgs9200m]

Quote:

Get over it guys, I never said they sounded the same. What I meant by minimized is that the differences are not as exaggerated as they used to be in my perception. They obviously have very different sound signatures, but the experience of going back and forth between the two headphones isn't unpleasant at all anymore.
Even when I finally found a tube combo that seemed to compliment both cans, it would take a while for me to adjust to their different signatures. It used to take me a few days to make this adjustment, and during that adjustment period the HD800 would sound thin and dry in comparison to the warmth and lushness of the LCD2.1. Conversely, when switching to the 2.1 after the 800, the highs would sound rolled off to the point of missing detail, and the mid-bass was overpowering the rest of the spectrum.
Now that I have become more "psychacoustically adjusted" to (or more "intimately familiar" with) them, my brain has seemingly completed its learning curve and the adjustment between the two headphones happens instantly. I used to try and stick with one or the other for weeks at a time to avoid the unpleasantness of the adjustment period, and now that is no longer necessary.
Good thing because I really like variety and hate using any kind of equalizer. I moved my BBE hardware EQ to my desktop for easy access weeks ago and haven't even engaged it yet.

OK, point taken and thanks for taking the time for that very well written elaboration.
In general, I find that a lesser amp (say, plugging the phones into my integrated amp's headphone jack) will not bring out the differences dramatically. But with a high-end headphone amp,
then it's night and day.
(By the way, as you say, I sure hate equalizers myself also, but, that's a never ending argument too, so let's avoid that in this thread I'd say.)

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

OK, point taken and thanks for taking the time for that very well written elaboration.
In general, I find that a lesser amp (say, plugging the phones into my integrated amp's headphone jack) will not bring out the differences dramatically. But with a high-end headphone amp,
then it's night and day.
(By the way, as you say, I sure hate equalizers myself also, but, that's a never ending argument too, so let's avoid that in this thread I'd say.)

 
x2. I was going to say the same thing earlier but held back. I would extend this to include sources as well. My headphones sounded more homogenous with lower-end DACs/transports.

 

[grokit]

My Gungnir > WA22+upgraded tubes is more than adequate to showcase the differences between these two headphones. The Mini-i I had before that was also quite good with the V192 feeding it with lossless music.

You guys sure know how to put a fella on the defensive h34r:

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

My Gungnir > WA22+upgraded tubes is more than adequate to showcase the differences between these two headphones. The Mini-i I had before that was also quite good with the V192 feeding it with lossless music.
You guys sure know how to put a fella on the defensive

 
I'm saying in general. It wasn't directed at you. I saw you already clarified what you meant earlier.

 

[Jamiee]

Quote:

My Gungnir > WA22+upgraded tubes is more than adequate to showcase the differences between these two headphones. The Mini-i I had before that was also quite good with the V192 feeding it with lossless music.
You guys sure know how to put a fella on the defensive

 
grokit, trust me they are just making some general comments.  It's not directed soley at you.
I know what you mean and I know what they mean.  It's ultimately just a different perception of what constitutes "different" in terms of headphone sound.
 
I am like you and find the LCD-3 & HD800 to be more similar in character than I was expecting them to be.  This doesn't mean I think they sound identical, just that they are closer than I was expecting after break-in.
 
Others find that the two are miles appart sonically ("night and day"), and I can certainly understand this point of view as well - even though I don't quite agree with it. ...Or better yet, I sort of agree to dissagree

 
Fact is both are excellent top flight dynamic headphones and diserve the best you can throw at them.  Doing so will bring the best out of each, with the rest being up to personal preference. 
 
 
For reference my equipment is as follows:
 
NETWORK MEDIA SERVER = Synology DS412+ NAS
LOCAL MEDIA SERVER = Desktop PC (Core i7, 16GB RAM etc...)
DAC = Audiolab M-DAC
DESKTOP SPEAKER CONTROLLER = KRK Ergo
DESKTOP SPEAKERS = Dynaudio MC-15 + BM-9S Subwoofer
HP AMP #1 = SPL Phonitor + HD800 + (all) Stefan Audio Art cables
HP AMP #2 = Cavalli Audio Liquid Fire + LCD-3 + (all) Q Audio silk cables
 
(NOTE: Both the M-DAC and KRK Ergo have built in headphone amps as well).

 

[rgs9200m]

Quote:

 
x2. I was going to say the same thing earlier but held back. I would extend this to include sources as well. My headphones sounded more homogenous with lower-end DACs/transports.

x2 also. A more truthful digital source that digs deep into the music will absolutely highlight the differences in the headphones or speakers. Great point.

 

[tokendog]

I am currently demoing some LCD-3s and I must say... the earpads should be standard on all LCD models.  These things are, to me, FAR more comfortable BY FAR in comparison to the LCD-2 pads.  I mean it's hardly any comparison.  They are softer, they give when you press on them, and the clamping force is a LOT more bearable because of the plushness...
 
I'm shocked that these are not standard across all LCD models or at least available as an option.  I guess it's one of the "perks" of upgrading to the LCD-3s, but wow... it would probably go a long way to mute a lot of the complaints about comfort.
 
As for a comparison between the LCD-2.2 and the LCD-3, I need a lot more time to adjust to these and fortunately I'll have these for a few days before having to give them back to their owner.

 

[jonstatt]

Quote:

I am currently demoing some LCD-3s and I must say... the earpads should be standard on all LCD models.  These things are, to me, FAR more comfortable BY FAR in comparison to the LCD-2 pads.  I mean it's hardly any comparison.  They are softer, they give when you press on them, and the clamping force is a LOT more bearable because of the plushness...
 
I'm shocked that these are not standard across all LCD models or at least available as an option.  I guess it's one of the "perks" of upgrading to the LCD-3s, but wow... it would probably go a long way to mute a lot of the complaints about comfort.
 
As for a comparison between the LCD-2.2 and the LCD-3, I need a lot more time to adjust to these and fortunately I'll have these for a few days before having to give them back to their owner.

 
Yes the pads are much more comfortable for sure. The leather is a higher grade too, but interestingly the LCD-3 pads appear much more "hand made". By hand made I mean there is much more asymmetry if you look closely between the left and right pads of a 3 compared to the 2. I understand the stitching is done by hand. You can buy LCD-3 pads separately, although they are not yet listed on Audeze's website, they should be able to supply them and they are, to my understanding, compatible with the LCD-2. I don't know how much they cost compared to the $80 for a set of replacement LCD-2 pads
 
EDIT: Apparently Audeze refuses to sell LCD-3 pads unless you are an LCD-3 owner! I assume they go by serial number.....

 

[tokendog]

Quote:

 
Yes the pads are much more comfortable for sure. The leather is a higher grade too, but interestingly the LCD-3 pads appear much more "hand made". By hand made I mean there is much more asymmetry if you look closely between the left and right pads of a 3 compared to the 2. I understand the stitching is done by hand. You can buy LCD-3 pads separately, although they are not yet listed on Audeze's website, they should be able to supply them and they are, to my understanding, compatible with the LCD-2. I don't know how much they cost compared to the $80 for a set of replacement LCD-2 pads
 
EDIT: Apparently Audeze refuses to sell LCD-3 pads unless you are an LCD-3 owner! I assume they go by serial number.....

 
These pads are a significant upgrade to the previous ones.  It really changes the comfort of the headphones in my opinion.  I am under the impression you can't just order the LCD-3 pads and you have to show that you own them?
 
Basically, it's for LCD-3 owners only at the moment.  Any one know for sure?  If any one can order these just by contacting Audeze, then I recommend you do so, because...well, it's drastically improved.

 

[Radio_head]

Only available for order for LCD-3 owners.

 

[paradoxper]

I guess the question remains why? I thought initially it was because of an SQ change while using those pads.
Or perhaps it's because a pair of $80 ear pads transform your sub $1k LCD-2 into a sub $2k LCD-3. 

 

[tokendog]

Quote:

I guess the question remains why? I thought initially it was because of an SQ change while using those pads.
Or perhaps it's because a pair of $80 ear pads transform your sub $1k LCD-2 into a sub $2k LCD-3. 

 
Possible...if just changing the pads is the BIGGEST improvement, and it only cost $80 (which it should), then that's problematic.

 

[tokendog]

But according to my initial and very premature impressions of the LCD-3 compared to my LCD-2....wow.  These things pack a punch.  Clarity is most noticeable...  I'm kind of at a loss.  I need a lot more time with these guys but I probably should have never listened to these.  I need to stop doing that...  I am making a commitment right now that I'll never listen to a STAX setup... cause it's hard to go back once you've heard better.