[Olias of Sunhillow]

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There already is. Most audio engineers know what neutral sounds like. The EQ levers are right in front of them. The microphones they use come with FR graphs. Even off-the-shelf monitors they use come with FR graphs for left and right speakers. It's common to apply compensating adjustments of even partial decibels to make sure the monitors are totally flat. The best studios used custom monitors fully calibrated neutral.
 
If you knew anything about the industry, there's a lot corporate pressure placed upon audio engineers to tweak things a certain way, especially for popular music. Bump up the highs, bump up the bass, compress the crap of out it. Basically make it really stand out.
 
The final product is a re-interpretation of what the engineers (or the corporate bigwigs) feel like how the music should sound. If you ask them, they'll let you know what they did to it, if they are honest or forthcoming. Seriously, of lot audio engineers, even the very well known respected ones, will answer your questions via phone or e-mail. You may have to prod them a little bit because they like keeping their secrets to themselves. Sometimes you get even funny stories, like "Ahh, crap, I wish didn't put my name on that one. Corporate (or the band) forced me to do that." 
 
But yeah, they know what they are doing and there's no confusion with terminology, vocabulary, or definitions with these guys.

It doesn't really matter to me whether "most audio engineers know what neutral sounds like." As a listener, what's important is what you reference in your third paragraph... the final product is NOT neutral more often than not (and needs to be compensated for in the listening process, either through selection of equipment or EQ). How and why it ends up that way is an entirely different conversation.
 

 

[purrin]

That's why I wish amp manufacturers would would bring back tone controls (with defeats.) A lot cheaper than several headphones (or speakers) with differing FRs.

 

[MorbidToaster]

I'll admit that I might be thinking about slapping a Rane hardware EQ in my rack for some time now...
 
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That's why I wish amp manufacturers would would bring back tone controls (with defeats.) A lot cheaper than several headphones (or speakers) with differing FRs.

 
 

 

[googleli]

It doesn't even matter what is "natural", "bright", "dark", "detailed" at all. If you listen to it for a while with your favourite music and like how it sounds, after comparison with a number of other high end headphones, just settle with it. Ignore all graphs, measurement and other subjective BS on Head-fi, including this post. These terms are all just relative and serve no real purpose apart from stirring up flame wars in the symantics of discussions. It just happens to me that the two I like are SR009 and LCD3, so if the Beats do that for you, feel free.
 
After my LF has arrived and I post some long overdue impressions of SR009 and LCD3, I will substantially cut down my time on Head-fi. Too much BS (from me), and too much Head-fi spendings in the past year.
 
One year ago I made my first full size headphone purchase, and within this one year -
LCD2
Leben CS300XS
Esoteric D-07 (sold)
Esoteric K-01
Beyerdynamic T5p
SRM727ii (I bought the amp two days before arnaud shipped  the 009 to me)
SR009
LCD3
Rega Saturn (2nd hand)
Liquid Fire, and
Power cables and interconnects which in total surpass the price of a SR009.
 
I have paid for the Thunderpants a while ago and still waiting for its arrival but I now seriously doubt whether it would get any meaningful head time.
 
And portable gear:
CLAS
HP-P1
SR71B
Stepdance
Energizer pack for Stepdance
iBasso DB2
 
most of which are now obsolete thanks to my new office rig.
 
Enough Head-fi for me, dudes... I probably will still get the SR010 or LCD4 when they come out, but until then, I am off onto something more important - say buying a flat in bloody Hong Kong. The total sum of all of the above can probably only get me about 20 square feet of living space in Hong Kong in the more prestigious districts nowadays.
 
Looking at my tag - turned from "Junior head-fier" to "Headphoneus Supremus" in one year... Probably doesn't mean anything, but reminds me that the time spent here is also getting ridiculous. The first thing I do  every morning after checking my Blackberry is checking my Head-fi subscriptions on Head-fi.
 
 

 

[MorbidToaster]

But what about your Zodiac Gold, Googleli?
 
Or your ALO Reference 16?

 

[googleli]

Zodiac Gold - I will have to try it with my Rega Saturn as transport and see how much the improvement is before pulling the trigger.
 
I have already ordered the Reference 16 (Black Friday weekend sale 10% off) and it will come from ALO together with my Liquid Fire.

 
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But what about your Zodiac Gold, Googleli?
 
Or your ALO Reference 16?

 

 

[MorbidToaster]

Tons of pictures, if you will.
 
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I have already ordered the Reference 16 (Black Friday weekend sale 10% off) and it will come from ALO together with my Liquid Fire.

 
 

 

[googleli]

Jian, being a neurologist and a Head-fier in Hong Kong, do you know Dr. Allan So? He was my high school buddie and has become a neurologist, and now he is also an audiophile.

 

[googleli]

Sure

 
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Tons of pictures, if you will.
 


 
 

 

 

[koonhua90]

Hmm guys I think I figured out what is the problem with the issue of discomfort due to more pressure felt on the right side.
 
The leather pad of right ear-pad has less foam near the front, near the line where the leather is sewed together. As a result of this, there is less padding and quite a bit more pressure is felt on a small part of my cheek, just below the right temple. I have even gone to the extend of bending the headband, making the right side looser, but the uneven pressure is starting to get annoying. I have sent a email to Audeze, hoping to get this fixed.
 
If it's at the price of LCD-2, I wouldn't mind about this, but the price of LCD-3 is quite a lot, and at that price there shouldn't be any fit issue due to uneven pads. It doesn't really look that different, but when I squeezed it with my hand I realized how the left side is so much more firmer. It's a shame that they can get the driver matched to 0.5 dB but can't match the ear-pads to proper firmness.
 
I also have a bit of problems with the build quality, as one of the hinge of left cup was starting to make noise and I had to oil it myself. 
 
So do I think this is a perfect headphone? No. There are some problems with the build quality, or maybe I just received a bad unit. And as some have pointed out about the detail on the LCD-3, I think I agree with them. I do not have any other high end headphones, but on swapping to the JH16, perhaps due to close proximity of drivers to the ears/ due to the way Jerry tune the JH to be more analytical, the micro-details on the JH16 is more prominent, even though LCD-3 resolves ambiance better. Sound-wise, maybe I do not have the proper rigs the LCD-3 to full potential, but build quality wise, it's apparent there are some problems with the unit I received.

 

[sillysally]

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What's the reason for selling your LCD-3's than?
 

Most of you guys are comparing the LCD-3 to the LCD-2's, I am comparing the LCD-3's to my HE6 using two respected higher end amps, WA5LE with WE300B nos matched very strong (test 4.3V=80, 5V=80, #2 tube 79 and 79) and same date code (5626), TSRP navy 6SN7GT's oval mica nos matched very strong date codes of Aug 1942, EML 5U4G's new. Parts upgrade is more extensive that what is listed on the Woo WA5LE page, plus a ALPS RK50 pot and other upgrades. My Liquid Fire Amp is stock but I have tried many different brands of top grade tubes in it. For the rest of my front line gear see my profile, and yes I do have other headphones that I don't show like my HD-800's. Note that I have taken my Crownson Shadow Stereo Motion System out of the loop for all my comparisons.
 
My reason's are that my HE6 has better bass impact, better mids and highs, faster, cleaner, and without ear fatigue for extended periods of time. The biggest plus on the LCD-3 side is that its much easier to drive than the HE6 as far as volume goes. Of-course these opinions are based on what I hear and these two headphone amps with and without my Realiser. I also used the same kind of aftermarket headphone cables DHC OCC copper.
Also considering the fact that the LCD-3 is twice the price of what I paid for the HE6 new, what is the point of keeping the LCD-3's for what I hear and enjoy. But then again price imo doesn't really enter into the total package if you enjoy one headphone better than the other you are comparing it to.
 

 

[gurus]

Quote:

Most of you guys are comparing the LCD-3 to the LCD-2's, I am comparing the LCD-3's to my HE6 using two respected higher end amps, WA5LE with WE300B nos matched very strong (test 4.3V=80, 5V=80, #2 tube 79 and 79) and same date code (5626), TSRP navy 6SN7GT's oval mica nos matched very strong date codes of Aug 1942, EML 5U4G's new. Parts upgrade is more extensive that what is listed on the Woo WA5LE page, plus a ALPS RK50 pot and other upgrades. My Liquid Fire Amp is stock but I have tried many different brands of top grade tubes in it. For the rest of my front line gear see my profile, and yes I do have other headphones that I don't show like my HD-800's. Note that I have taken my Crownson Shadow Stereo Motion System out of the loop for all my comparisons.
 
My reason's are that my HE6 has better bass impact, better mids and highs, faster, cleaner, and without ear fatigue for extended periods of time. The biggest plus on the LCD-3 side is that its much easier to drive than the HE6 as far as volume goes. Of-course these opinions are based on what I hear and these two headphone amps with and without my Realiser. I also used the same kind of aftermarket headphone cables DHC OCC copper.
Also considering the fact that the LCD-3 is twice the price of what I paid for the HE6 new, what is the point of keeping the LCD-3's for what I hear and enjoy. But then again price imo doesn't really enter into the total package if you enjoy one headphone better than the other you are comparing it to.
 

Good enough reasoning for me. I am glad I decided to fall off the wagon on the pre-order of a LCD-3, just could not justify the price without hearing one. Now it looks likely that even after I hear one I probably would not end up buying one. 
 

 

[jax]

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And why are these graphs important?

They could come in very handy if you own birds.
 

 
...or kept within arms reach should you be faced with this at the wrong time
 

 
 
 

 

[googleli]

The TP mod!!

 

[jax]

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Well most of the shows are really bad, and I think you get a lot of wierd stuff at them. I'm also sure a lot of manufacturersbrighten up their stuff on purpose get get attention. In my mind, what I am referring to is that there are certain known speaker companies that do produce good stuff year after year - you know you they are. They don't necessarily show up at RMAF every year, mostly because they don't need to.
 
On the issue of convergence, I certainly don't want everything to sound the same, but I think some amount of convergence to better sounding designs wouldn't be a bad idea. It's even more "all over the place" with headphones than speakers.
 
 

Can you expand on that a bit more?  Most of the shows are bad - What do you mean by that?  ...weird stuff at them?  You're sure manufacturers brighten stuff up?  Are you suggesting that they are altering the gear they bring to the show to make it sound "brighter", or some other ?  Known speaker companies produce good stuff year after year.....  What is a "known" speaker company?  Don't get me wrong, I think I see eye to eye on some of what you are saying, but it is entirely vague in the way you've put it here.  
 
"Convergence to a better sounding design" implies that there is some objective way to define what "better" is.  "Better" is an entirely human concept and is completely dependent upon a perspective as well a subjective judgement at some stage as to what exactly defines, well, "betterness".  Who's going to determine what "better" is?