[chesebert]

"Anyway, measurements are just for reference, they can't tell you what you are going to actually hear"

This is what I wrote.
It means that you don't know how the NDH-30 will sound by just browsing the frequency response graph.

You have to listen to know.

Πιο απλά δεν γίνεται να το γράψω.

FR cannot tell you everything you are going to hear. FR can absolutely tell you certain aspects of what you are going to hear and is a key parameter in determining the timbre and tone of the final sound reproduction, among other attributes of the reproduction.

Your statement is implying or suggesting FR is useless in the evaluation of audio reproduction - that is simply wrong.

Man, what’s your background as a professional reviewer?

 

[Ichos]

FR cannot tell you everything you are going to hear. FR can absolutely tell you certain aspects of what you are going to hear and is a key parameter in determining the timbre and tone of the final sound reproduction, among other attributes of the reproduction.

Your statement is implying or suggesting FR is useless in the evaluation of audio reproduction - that is simply wrong.

Man, what’s your background?

Sixth grade preliminary school.

 

[dpeterfy32]

does anyone have both 660s2 and ndh30? I would be technically interested in the differences. space, stage, imaging, transparency, resolution. I can decide between them very quickly... one day I want to put one in the basket, the next day the other.

 

[rafaelo]

Sixth grade preliminary school.

Thanks god even better!!! You are qualified for the matlab student version which is rather cheap. Otherwise you need to buy the full version which cost some thousand dollars and run all this code....

Alternatively, you can hear the headphones directly and form an opinion...

Your choice man...

 

[Rob80b]

FR cannot tell you everything you are going to hear. FR can absolutely tell you certain aspects of what you are going to hear and is a key parameter in determining the timbre and tone of the final sound reproduction, among other attributes of the reproduction.

"Anyway, measurements are just for reference, they can't tell you what you are going to actually hear"
………..
You have to listen to know.

... yes listen and hear!

Timbre ...... unique characteristics that define the sound quality of an instrument, violin vs banjo ...... harmonics and or overtones for each sound produced, metal or plastic strings...don't believe you can get that from a graph. With headphones a mylar or aluminium driver, plastic or wood casing, etc etc....
Then tone.....the frequencies being played, softly, loudly, that can be shown on a graph, same for pitch but does not tell us what the driver is properly reproducing… a female, male singer or chimpanzees having fun...
The way the drivers behave will give us a particular sound overall..but again a graph will tell us very little.
Sure graphs, they can give us a ball park figure of the frequency output but when it comes to headphones, graphs can almost be totally dismissed.
It's been awhile but I remember at headphone meets, three consecutive listeners with the same phone will have 3 different opinions, "wow", "not for me" and "so so", too much bass, no bass, too forward, too recessed, too strident, lacks treble and on and on.....Just too many differences of of opinions, preferences, fit and ear canal shape.…..
But seriously…with all that in mind graphs can lead one down the garden path when it comes to headphones…and sadly hearing can and will be easily swayed by the power of suggestion.


There was a positive review the other day of that other headphone and no graphs were shown and no EQ suggestions...so we just accept he liked it just from listening?
What I’m trying to say is that too many today are putting too much importance on graphs to make or break a phone and dismissing or praising it outright without a listen.

 

[headstef]

Don't believe he stated inferior anywhere...just a slight bias "No, they aren’t the second coming of HD650. We can all settle down and resume dreaming. "...

Rob, I don't think that we are talking about the same "reviewer" because the one I am referring to, actually wrote:
"Unfortunately, comparisons are where things go from somewhat poor to downright grim for NDH-30. Especially since HD600 and HD650 are less than half the price and absolutely clobber NDH-30 in basically every important way." (Bold typing is original).

He also wrote much worst things (=glaring inaccurate), for unknown reasons, that would seem outrageous even to a NDH 30 "hater". A very unfortunate/surreal review.
Even at reddit (!) users kept telling him how wrong he was about the NDH 30, no need to mention so many other sources available that should at least alarm him.

Anyway, it doesn't matter at all, maybe it is my fault to think that he decided to re-review the NDH 30 after receiving totally conflicting feedback (though he seemed very reluctant to investigate a little more). I thought it was a new graph because "sample 2" is indicated in it and it is a different/better graph than what he published in that "review".
Let's move on.

 

[Rob80b]

Let's move on.

 

[PixelSquish]

I haven't had the HD600 in a while. But I do know I felt more impressed by the NDH-30 than I did the HD600 after listening to each for a bit.

 

[bagwell359]

I haven't had the HD600 in a while. But I do know I felt more impressed by the NDH-30 than I did the HD600 after listening to each for a bit.

Was that with the same music and same equipment?

 

[jonathan c]

Rob, I don't think that we are talking about the same "reviewer" because the one I am referring to, actually wrote:
"Unfortunately, comparisons are where things go from somewhat poor to downright grim for NDH-30. Especially since HD600 and HD650 are less than half the price and absolutely clobber NDH-30 in basically every important way." (Bold typing is original).

He also wrote much worst things (=glaring inaccurate), for unknown reasons, that would seem outrageous even to a NDH 30 "hater". A very unfortunate/surreal review.
Even at reddit (!) users kept telling him how wrong he was about the NDH 30, no need to mention so many other sources available that should at least alarm him.

Anyway, it doesn't matter at all, maybe it is my fault to think that he decided to re-review the NDH 30 after receiving totally conflicting feedback (though he seemed very reluctant to investigate a little more). I thought it was a new graph because "sample 2" is indicated in it and it is a different/better graph than what he published in that "review".
Let's move on.

Let’s moooooove on …. ….

 

[Harold999]

I haven't had the HD600 in a while. But I do know I felt more impressed by the NDH-30 than I did the HD600 after listening to each for a bit.

Not impressing is exactly the reason why the HD600 is one of the most popular audiophile headphones for almost 3 decades.

 

[chesebert]

Not impressing is exactly the reason why the HD600 is one of the most popular audiophile headphones for almost 3 decades.

HD600 was popular because it got the mid very right and didn't suck completely in other areas. It's also $300 (or less on sale) and most people could afford to buy one, enjoy and grow with them as they upgrade the rest of their system.

 

[indigogo]

Let's move on.

And where to move on? Ser, point us in the right direction please!
On YouTube, and in this thread, there are so many professional and experienced sound reviewers, experts in the field of frequency response graphs and simply wise and cool audiophiles - that lately I am embarrassed to write even a very small sentence ...))))))
I'm just confused and nervous...))))

 

[Mike F]

No, only it's older brother the HDVD800 but with the 2 x 4 pin XLR outputs and I'm not using the internal DAC, just direct balanced in from my sources.


...and in the living/media room the Bryston BHA-1.

I’ve realised why I don’t get enough impact and detail from my six series headphones - I don’t crank the volume enough! I’ve never managed to get past 12 o’clock with the gain on my HDVD800. I’m impressed!

I would second the suggestion that you should try the NDH 20 Black Edition if you still have the opportunity. Then you would save a fair amount that you could use for an NDH 30. And you’d also finally manage to ditch that ugly 630 thing at back!

 

[hakunamakaka]

... yes listen and hear!

Timbre ...... unique characteristics that define the sound quality of an instrument, violin vs banjo ...... harmonics and or overtones for each sound produced, metal or plastic strings...don't believe you can get that from a graph. With headphones a mylar or aluminium driver, plastic or wood casing, etc etc....
Then tone.....the frequencies being played, softly, loudly, that can be shown on a graph, same for pitch but does not tell us what the driver is properly reproducing… a female, male singer or chimpanzees having fun...
The way the drivers behave will give us a particular sound overall..but again a graph will tell us very little.
Sure graphs, they can give us a ball park figure of the frequency output but when it comes to headphones, graphs can almost be totally dismissed.
It's been awhile but I remember at headphone meets, three consecutive listeners with the same phone will have 3 different opinions, "wow", "not for me" and "so so", too much bass, no bass, too forward, too recessed, too strident, lacks treble and on and on.....Just too many differences of of opinions, preferences, fit and ear canal shape.…..
But seriously…with all that in mind graphs can lead one down the garden path when it comes to headphones…and sadly hearing can and will be easily swayed by the power of suggestion.


There was a positive review the other day of that other headphone and no graphs were shown and no EQ suggestions...so we just accept he liked it just from listening?
What I’m trying to say is that too many today are putting too much importance on graphs to make or break a phone and dismissing or praising it outright without a listen.

I'm in the camp that if you want to know how HP's actually sound you have to hear it. timbre characteristics or even how engaging headphone will sound is not seen in chart. I had a chance to hear kz vs a8000 iem’s which looks nearly identical in FR chart, yet sounds worlds apart