[Mike F]

I have to say it’s a pretty tough choice between the 660S2 and the NDH 30, one is more like extremely enjoyable vintage or hifi speakers and the other one sounds like very accurate yet pleasing studio monitors.

Decisions, decisions…

Maybe that’s exactly it. I’ve always preferred the studio monitor sound.

 

[jonathan c]

I have to say it’s a pretty tough choice between the 660S2 and the NDH 30, one is more like extremely enjoyable vintage or hifi speakers and the other one sounds like very accurate yet pleasing studio monitors.**

Decisions, decisions…

** … that is a very good case for owning both … since one’s listening ‘moods’ change …

 

[Rob80b]

But one thing I’m fairly certain of is that the only thing that the HD630 has in common with the NDH 30 is the headband and yokes!

Even though it has a new driver I was thinking not just about the ear cup shape and material but also driver placement which is identical but unlike the 20 and HD630 there's extra damping material like we see on the Sennheiser 600 series but even more so. : )


20 and HD630


Anyway.. all just fun stuff and I'm always curious to know : )

 

[chesebert]

I have heard enough and this is my initial impression after about a week of burning in/listening

Equipment Used: Emm Labs NS1, Emm Labs DAC2xV2, Sonic Frontier SFD-1 mkii, Headamp GSX(mk2 modules), Headamp GS-1(mk2 module) (think of this as half of GSX2)
Headphones compared: HD650 with Stefan AudioArt cable with quarter mod; RAAL, Utopia and Pulsar comparisons were done via listening notes.
Cable: Stock and Fog City Cardas balanced cable (I mostly used the balanced cable for the comparison)
Music Genres: jazz (small ensemble and big band), symphony, Jpop, Cpop, electronic, solo instruments (piano, violin and cello).

I am going to skip everything relating to visual or comfort because only the sound matters. I am also going to skip the same old sound description because I have been reading the same descriptive words for decades. Here we go!

NDH30 had some of the best visceral impact; can easily feel the bass and the punch is very strong. Can’t decide if NDH30 is better than Pulsar and Utopia, both of which have incredible visceral impact. This is a significant upgrade from HD650, which has adequate visceral impact but there is distinct lack of punch). Probably slightly less than 5/5.

Mid range purity is among the best. Voice, piano and cello all sound very real and natural without any added wonky frequency uplift noticed in Utopia. There is also 0 deviation from naturalness (not even an ever slight bump I heard in Pulsar). HD650 is slightly behind in terms of that transparency and cleanest of the mid range - there is just that slight lack of that cleanliness and transparency compared with NDH30. This level of performance is closing in RAAL, which has the best mid range purity bar none. I think 4.5/5 is probably fair score.

NDH30 is convincingly recreating the jazz and symphony hall venue. This level of ability to recreate the space is probably the best I have heard in any headphone regardless of price. You can hear slight reverberation from the venue across the frequency range and in terms of holographic feel, there are songs where you absolutely can “feel” the instrument or “touch” the singer. HD650 is a class behind NDH30 and unremarkable. RAAL is better but it’s not too far off. 4.5/5 (there is RAAL, can anything be 5 at this point?)

Mid bass definition is clean, clear and well defined. Not notice any bleeding of bass into mid range or muddiness. It’s not the most sharp and well defined bass I have heard, but it’s still a step up from HD650, which is not as clear in terms of its bass performance. HD650’s bass is also slow compared with NDH30, as the trailing edge lingers for a bit too long; 4.5/5

Sub bass from 60hz down is close to the best. Can easily feel the rumble in the body and in the stomach. It’s clean and deep with great definition. This is significantly better than HD650/Utopia/Clear and a touch behind Pulsar, HE6se and LCD3/LCD4. I think 4/5 is a fair score

NDH30’s performance in terms of resolution is among the best. Minor harmonic variances in tone are easily rendered, thereby making note more “3D” sounding. Space around each note and between instruments can be clearly heard. Treble details can be easily heard and tracked across the sonic space. This level of performance is approaching electrostatic and RAAL. HD650 is slight better than average and again unremarkable, as none of these minor spacial queues and harmonic overtones can be easily heard on 650. 4.5/5

NDH30 has one of the most accurate sound stage reproduction I have ever heard. The sound stage is as small or as big as the music requires. It can go from intimate to gigantic in a single instant with each instrument or sound source accurately placed in their own 3D sound stage (yes, you can hear height information with NDH30). HD800 has a larger sound stage but it sounds artificial to me; HD650 is not even close. Nothing currently on the market can compare 5/5

Treble realism and timbre are very accurate. Timbre of real instruments like violin and piano is among the best (dynamics, estats, planar). Piano has that nice hammer action and it’s easily heard, the reverberation from the soundboard is also very accurate with tiny harmonics that makes each note sound “3D”. Violin has that realistic bow/rosin quality (again with multiple layers of harmonics to each note). Treble is smooth and clear with great tone even in the upper registers. If I put RAAL at 5/5 in this area, then NDH40 is somewhere between 4.5-5.

Here is short breakdown of the scores (including areas I didn’t cover above). Overall conclusion: wow.

NDH30 Score Breakdown:

Visceral impact 4.5
Mid range purity 4.5
Holographic 4.5
Bass definition 4.5
Sub bass 4
Resolution 4.5
Space rendition / atmosphere 4.5 (the space and the harmonic sounds around each instrument is impressive)
Sound stage 5
Treble realism: 4.5
Timbre 5 (can hear the tiny harmonics variances in each note, realistic to how actual instruments sound, leading edges are clear and realistic and not overbearing or sharp)
PRAaT 5
Body/weight: 5
Macro dynamic: 4.5
Micro dynamic: 4.5
Transparency: high

 

[Mike F]

Double post. Not sure how, but that’s what happens when your on Head-Fi and playing a show at the same time!

 

[jonathan c]

Double post. Not sure how, but that’s what happens when your on Head-Fi and playing a show at the same time!

… how often do you double ‘fill cart’, double ‘pay now’ on EBay etc … ?

 

[Mike F]

… how often do you double ‘fill cart’, double ‘pay now’ on EBay etc … ?

 

[Mike F]

Well, I did actually order the second NDH 30 and make the PayPal payment during the show, so let’s see what turns up!!

 

[Rob80b]

I have heard enough and this is my initial impression after about a week of burning in/listening

Except for the visceral impact can I copy and paste this for my HD660S2 review.

 

[headstef]

In the past "monitor sound" has been used frequently with a negative tint by some salesmen or reviewers that wanted to promote "non monitor" sounding products, supposed to offer better sound via less accuracy. But this way of thinking totaly ignores that recordings can deviate from neutrality to all directions. Also, most music lovers listen to many different kinds of music (I do), recorded in various eras. Thus headphones or loudspeakers need to be as close to neutral as possible. Apart from adapting better to these variations, they ensure the best sound from thousands of modern productions with sofisticated and balanced recordings.

Neutrality is a bless. If I want to listen to "fun" music, fun is already well mixed in a modern recording, because digital formats permit so. Why spoil it with an overdoing headphone or loudspeakers? If I want to listen to fine vocals or small ensembles why risk with transducers that deviate from monitor neutrality? (Especially for headphones neutrality also suggests taking into account psychoacoustics and using listening as well as carefully compansated measurements).
Not ignoring some personal preferences, "monitor" neutrality is the starting point. Usualy it is the finishing line too.
(My two pence).

 

[chesebert]

Except for the visceral impact can I copy and paste this for my HD660S2 review.

why not But I would suggest you first experience Utopia (OG), Utopia (2022), and Spirit Torino Pulsar so you know the baseline SOTA for 2023 in terms of dynamic cans.

 

[indigogo]

I have heard enough and this is my initial impression after about a week of burning in/listening

Equipment Used: Emm Labs NS1, Emm Labs DAC2xV2, Sonic Frontier SFD-1 mkii, Headamp GSX(mk2 modules), Headamp GS-1(mk2 module) (think of this as half of GSX2)
Headphones compared: HD650 with Stefan AudioArt cable with quarter mod; RAAL, Utopia and Pulsar comparisons were done via listening notes.
Cable: Stock and Fog City Cardas balanced cable (I mostly used the balanced cable for the comparison)
Music Genres: jazz (small ensemble and big band), symphony, Jpop, Cpop, electronic, solo instruments (piano, violin and cello).

I am going to skip everything relating to visual or comfort because only the sound matters. I am also going to skip the same old sound description because I have been reading the same descriptive words for decades. Here we go!

NDH30 had some of the best visceral impact; can easily feel the bass and the punch is very strong. Can’t decide if NDH30 is better than Pulsar and Utopia, both of which have incredible visceral impact. This is a significant upgrade from HD650, which has adequate visceral impact but there is distinct lack of punch). Probably slightly less than 5/5.

Mid range purity is among the best. Voice, piano and cello all sound very real and natural without any added wonky frequency uplift noticed in Utopia. There is also 0 deviation from naturalness (not even an ever slight bump I heard in Pulsar). HD650 is slightly behind in terms of that transparency and cleanest of the mid range - there is just that slight lack of that cleanliness and transparency compared with NDH30. This level of performance is closing in RAAL, which has the best mid range purity bar none. I think 4.5/5 is probably fair score.

NDH30 is convincingly recreating the jazz and symphony hall venue. This level of ability to recreate the space is probably the best I have heard in any headphone regardless of price. You can hear slight reverberation from the venue across the frequency range and in terms of holographic feel, there are songs where you absolutely can “feel” the instrument or “touch” the singer. HD650 is a class behind NDH30 and unremarkable. RAAL is better but it’s not too far off. 4.5/5 (there is RAAL, can anything be 5 at this point?)

Mid bass definition is clean, clear and well defined. Not notice any bleeding of bass into mid range or muddiness. It’s not the most sharp and well defined bass I have heard, but it’s still a step up from HD650, which is not as clear in terms of its bass performance. HD650’s bass is also slow compared with NDH30, as the trailing edge lingers for a bit too long; 4.5/5

Sub bass from 60hz down is close to the best. Can easily feel the rumble in the body and in the stomach. It’s clean and deep with great definition. This is significantly better than HD650/Utopia/Clear and a touch behind Pulsar, HE6se and LCD3/LCD4. I think 4/5 is a fair score

NDH30’s performance in terms of resolution is among the best. Minor harmonic variances in tone are easily rendered, thereby making note more “3D” sounding. Space around each note and between instruments can be clearly heard. Treble details can be easily heard and tracked across the sonic space. This level of performance is approaching electrostatic and RAAL. HD650 is slight better than average and again unremarkable, as none of these minor spacial queues and harmonic overtones can be easily heard on 650. 4.5/5

NDH30 has one of the most accurate sound stage reproduction I have ever heard. The sound stage is as small or as big as the music requires. It can go from intimate to gigantic in a single instant with each instrument or sound source accurately placed in their own 3D sound stage (yes, you can hear height information with NDH30). HD800 has a larger sound stage but it sounds artificial to me; HD650 is not even close. Nothing currently on the market can compare 5/5

Treble realism and timbre are very accurate. Timbre of real instruments like violin and piano is among the best (dynamics, estats, planar). Piano has that nice hammer action and it’s easily heard, the reverberation from the soundboard is also very accurate with tiny harmonics that makes each note sound “3D”. Violin has that realistic bow/rosin quality (again with multiple layers of harmonics to each note). Treble is smooth and clear with great tone even in the upper registers. If I put RAAL at 5/5 in this area, then NDH40 is somewhere between 4.5-5.

Here is short breakdown of the scores (including areas I didn’t cover above). Overall conclusion: wow.

NDH30 Score Breakdown:

Visceral impact 4.5
Mid range purity 4.5
Holographic 4.5
Bass definition 4.5
Sub bass 4
Resolution 4.5
Space rendition / atmosphere 4.5 (the space and the harmonic sounds around each instrument is impressive)
Sound stage 5
Treble realism: 4.5
Timbre 5 (can hear the tiny harmonics variances in each note, realistic to how actual instruments sound, leading edges are clear and realistic and not overbearing or sharp)
PRAaT 5
Body/weight: 5
Macro dynamic: 4.5
Micro dynamic: 4.5
Transparency: high

Excellent and accurate review. I don't have the patience to write in such detail. Respect!

 

[Rob80b]

you first experience Utopia (OG)

I did but I was still in the honeymoon period with my HD800S so didn't find them all that enticing, may need to revisit...anyway they're way above my pay grade so not even going there....and those Spirit Torino Pulsar (these names kill me) look butt ugly, my last vehicle was a Mini Cooper not a Hummer. : )

 

[rasa0230]

Hi guys, Can NDH 30 be my monitoring upgrade? I mixing and mastering usually bass heavy music like trap, dancehall, pop, reagge... I work on my closed back dt 770 pro and focal alpha 65 studio monitors with half treated room, and i looking for pair of speaker like adam a7x and focal shape 65 etc. but i heard them and i think that is a small jump in sound quality from my monitoring setup. I like focal twin6 and I need more acoustic treatment, but that is way over my budget. So I try some headphones instead. hd600 i liked a lot but they don't have enough bass. I need something to translate well on other playback systems, and here are many nice words neumann open back headphones but not many about critical mixing more hifi lovers.

 

[frankiewilde]

Hi guys, Can NDH 30 be my monitoring upgrade? I mixing and mastering usually bass heavy music like trap, dancehall, pop, reagge... I work on my closed back dt 770 pro and focal alpha 65 studio monitors with half treated room, and i looking for pair of speaker like adam a7x and focal shape 65 etc. but i heard them and i think that is a small jump in sound quality from my monitoring setup. I like focal twin6 and I need more acoustic treatment, but that is way over my budget. So I try some headphones instead. hd600 i liked a lot but they don't have enough bass. I need something to translate well on other playback systems, and here are many nice words neumann open back headphones but not many about critical mixing more hifi lovers.

NDH-30 was made for this. My mixes are night and day since I have it.