[Plieb]

I spent a few hours with the NDH 30 and I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, what was announced has been achieved. These headphones sound in a way that can be compared to the sound of studio monitors, and in the entire frequency spectrum (that I can hear, i.e. up to 17 kHz) they sound very coherent, calm and even relaxing.

On the other hand - compared to my HD 600 (with Custom Cans mods), there is clearly less detail, and this is the detail that sometimes determines my positive or negative attitude towards, for example, a given interpretation of a symphonic piece. A good example here would be Krzysztof Penderecki's Anaklasis and Polimorphia (both from Naxos). When I receive an engaging presentation on the HD 600, full of details, causing a synesthetic effect in my imagination, the genius of the composer and the values of the conductor's interpretation are clear, obvious, and simply delightful to me. NDH 30 doesn't have that - I feel that they are just very solid recordings... and nothing more. The sounds of wind instruments, timpani, and double bass are not as long and expressive. On the HD 600 - knowing the room where the recordings were made - I can hear the interior of the National Philharmonic in Warsaw, but on the NDH 30 this is not there.

Although I admit - listening on HD 600 is more burdensome for me. I can't do this for too long - I get tired and after a while, I get a headache. So, in theory, I should be able to spend more time with the NDH 30, although... that is not the case. When I put them on for the first time, I thought they were OK. However, when I switched to HD 600 I realised I have never appreciated how light-weight and comfortable on the head HD 600 are.

Finally - on NDH 30 every album I listened to sounded good. On the HD 600, production issues and recording advantages immediately come to the fore... I understand that this may be an advantage for many people. It's simply easier to listen, but I'm very interested in these differences and without them, I find listening to music quite uncomfortable.

I would never say that these are weak headphones, on the contrary - their soundstage, abundant bass presentation, delicate treble, and naturalness of timbre are undoubted advantages.

As the old saying goes: "the good God is in the details" - I just got used to looking Him in the eye and the NDH 30 doesn't give me a chance to do that.

I can understand your position. Yes the hd600 which i also own is very natural very focused. However it can sometimes be too much of a good thing being a bit too crisp and lacking some weight. Using with my tube like class A Rebel Amp.
Also my ndh 30 really shined when i switched to an 8 core silver balanced cable. Noticable increase in detail crispness, and seperation.
Using with singxer amp.
If i learned one thing about sonics it's that compatibility is everything. What sounds good on one amp may sound mediocre on another.
For context, may i ask what amps and dacs you were using on those two headphones?

 

[Rainblind]

I can understand your position. Yes the hd600 which i also own is very natural very focused. However it can sometimes be too much of a good thing being a bit too crisp and lacking some weight. Using with my tube like class A Rebel Amp.
Also my ndh 30 really shined when i switched to an 8 core silver balanced cable. Noticable increase in detail crispness, and seperation.
Using with singxer amp.
If i learned one thing about sonics it's that compatibility is everything. What sounds good on one amp may sound mediocre on another.
For context, may i ask what amps and dacs you were using on those two headphones?

I fully agree. I loved HD 600 with Feliks Elise, but this purchase has to wait for another year.
My setup now is quite simple: Sony 202 ES CDP + Audioquest Mackenzie interconnects + Lehmannaudio Linear II.
Thanks so much for the hint about the silver cable!

 

[Plieb]

I fully agree. I loved HD 600 with Feliks Elise, but this purchase has to wait for another year.
My setup now is quite simple: Sony 202 ES CDP + Audioquest Mackenzie interconnects + Lehmannaudio Linear II.
Thanks so much for the hint about the silver cable!

Ok thanks. BTW the 8 core siver with furutech xlr was purchased from Hart as a special order. Was about $160 which was a bargain compared to other company offerings.

 

[jonathan c]

NDH-30 also responds very nicely to Liquid Platinum as the h/p/a:

RFT ECC82 'foil getter' tubes are certainly plusses.

 

[kman1211]

I spent a few hours with the NDH 30 and I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, what was announced has been achieved. These headphones sound in a way that can be compared to the sound of studio monitors, and in the entire frequency spectrum (that I can hear, i.e. up to 17 kHz) they sound very coherent, calm and even relaxing.

On the other hand - compared to my HD 600 (with Custom Cans mods), there is clearly less detail, and this is the detail that sometimes determines my positive or negative attitude towards, for example, a given interpretation of a symphonic piece. A good example here would be Krzysztof Penderecki's Anaklasis and Polimorphia (both from Naxos). When I receive an engaging presentation on the HD 600, full of details, causing a synesthetic effect in my imagination, the genius of the composer and the values of the conductor's interpretation are clear, obvious, and simply delightful to me. NDH 30 doesn't have that - I feel that they are just very solid recordings... and nothing more. The sounds of wind instruments, timpani, and double bass are not as long and expressive. On the HD 600 - knowing the room where the recordings were made - I can hear the interior of the National Philharmonic in Warsaw, but on the NDH 30 this is not there.

Although I admit - listening on HD 600 is more burdensome for me. I can't do this for too long - I get tired and after a while, I get a headache. So, in theory, I should be able to spend more time with the NDH 30, although... that is not the case. When I put them on for the first time, I thought they were OK. However, when I switched to HD 600 I realised I have never appreciated how light-weight and comfortable on the head HD 600 are.

Finally - on NDH 30 every album I listened to sounded good. On the HD 600, production issues and recording advantages immediately come to the fore... I understand that this may be an advantage for many people. It's simply easier to listen, but I'm very interested in these differences and without them, I find listening to music quite uncomfortable.

I would never say that these are weak headphones, on the contrary - their soundstage, abundant bass presentation, delicate treble, and naturalness of timbre are undoubted advantages.

As the old saying goes: "the good God is in the details" - I just got used to looking Him in the eye and the NDH 30 doesn't give me a chance to do that.

This is why I generally prefer Beyers (the more pleasantly tuned ones at least) to Senns, they're easier on my ears with long-term listening even though they can be spicy up top (some are too spicy) and are often colored, I just find a greater sense of ease with their sound and I find I get lost in the music more often. I love Senns don't get me wrong, I own 4 in the HD 6xx line, the HD 600, 650, 660S, and 660S2. Only heard the NDH-30 a relatively short amount of time, didn't feel like it was for me at least on the system I tried them on as they didn't engage me in a musical sense, this caused me to lose interest in them (but I think I'll give them a proper shot eventually), I thought they were good just I had no musical connection, I have the same problem with the HD 650. It's interesting because I find the HD 600 quite musically engaging, sadly the HD 600 grates on me a bit with longer sessions. After figuring out the fatigue culprit on the HD 660S2 (the stock cable, didn't like the sonic changes my aftermarket cable did with it, but using both my HD 660S or HD 650 cables fixed the fatigue), it's became my favorite of the HD 6xx lineup.

 

[FritzS]

A good example here would be Krzysztof Penderecki's Anaklasis and Polimorphia (both from Naxos).

Please could you tell me the Cat.No. from both? Or an download link?
https://www.naxos.com/bio/person/Krzysztof_Penderecki_21188/21188

 

[Rainblind]

@kman1211 - what cable did you use for Senns? I would be highly intersted in it!

@FritzS - sure my pleasure.
Here you can buy Anaklasis as individual track:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8006617--penderecki-fonogrammi-partita-horn-concerto

And same thing here with Polymorphia:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7959013--penderecki-te-deum

When it comes to Antoni Wit's interpretations I also highly recommend Passion:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7926876--penderecki-st-luke-passion

 

[Rainblind]

Recently, however, I found a place in my collection and a proper enviroment for the NDH 30. I don't know if my head and ears got used to them or maybe the headphones needed a little more time to warm up? It's hard for me to say this definitively.

Anyway, about listening to the classical stuff on them my opinion remains untouched - NDH 30 are too dark and too focused on macro-dynamic presentation. It's a bit like a historian giving a lecture on physics.

But... they turned out to be exceptionally effective with electric blues and hard 'n' heavy. This calm but complete presentation works in a few specific areas.

First - piano sounds. On the HD 600, the piano notes are presented mainly at the top frequencies. On NDH 30 there is more midrange and bass in the that spectrum and I for example can finally - throughout the entire duration of the album - hear Ron Levi's contribution to the B.B. King's band well. Good example is the Live in Japan 1971 (first CD release 1992). It is clear where the piano had an ornamental character, where it confidently led the melody, and where Ron Leavy played it like a drum.

The toms and snare drum also sound surprisingly coherent and realistic - they have more weight but not to the overload, boomy, point.

Electric guitar and vocals - the guitar is always smoother and the voice is slightly less present than in the HD 600 and HD 650, but they have not lost their impact at all. It's clear when Hendrix presses the strings harder and when he relaxes a little (Monterey, Spanish Castle Magic Records 2009), or when B.B. King sings further away or closer to the microphone (Newport 1972).

However, the biggest surprise here is the electric bass guitar. It is resonant, specific and detailed, but the sound is neither soft and muddy, as my acoustician friend says: "teddy bearish", nor is it hard and cold. I have never experienced such joy from listening to bass lines on, for example, Black Sabbath's Mob Rules (first American CD release, 1989). Yes, sometimes there is a lack of details in the top (crash, ride, hi hat), but the overall image is so realistic that it doesn't bother me that much.

I'm surprised by the width of the stage - it resembles the HD 600 after using ZMF leather pads, but there the energy in the midrange was lost much more.

So - NDH 30 is my friend now, but I consider it a specialist in a very narrow field, let's say - energetic and electric stuff, with groups up to 12 musicians.

When it comes to comfort of use, I'm thinking about replacing the head foam with a thicker one. Maybe that will help? Have any of you tried using Sennheiser 5xx or 6xx series material with NDH 30?

 

[headstef]

Recently, however, I found a place in my collection and a proper enviroment for the NDH 30. I don't know if my head and ears got used to them or maybe the headphones needed a little more time to warm up? It's hard for me to say this definitively.

Anyway, about listening to the classical stuff on them my opinion remains untouched - NDH 30 are too dark and too focused on macro-dynamic presentation. It's a bit like a historian giving a lecture on physics.

But... they turned out to be exceptionally effective with electric blues and hard 'n' heavy. This calm but complete presentation works in a few specific areas.

First - piano sounds. On the HD 600, the piano notes are presented mainly at the top frequencies. On NDH 30 there is more midrange and bass in the that spectrum and I for example can finally - throughout the entire duration of the album - hear Ron Levi's contribution to the B.B. King's band well. Good example is the Live in Japan 1971 (first CD release 1992). It is clear where the piano had an ornamental character, where it confidently led the melody, and where Ron Leavy played it like a drum.

The toms and snare drum also sound surprisingly coherent and realistic - they have more weight but not to the overload, boomy, point.

Electric guitar and vocals - the guitar is always smoother and the voice is slightly less present than in the HD 600 and HD 650, but they have not lost their impact at all. It's clear when Hendrix presses the strings harder and when he relaxes a little (Monterey, Spanish Castle Magic Records 2009), or when B.B. King sings further away or closer to the microphone (Newport 1972).

However, the biggest surprise here is the electric bass guitar. It is resonant, specific and detailed, but the sound is neither soft and muddy, as my acoustician friend says: "teddy bearish", nor is it hard and cold. I have never experienced such joy from listening to bass lines on, for example, Black Sabbath's Mob Rules (first American CD release, 1989). Yes, sometimes there is a lack of details in the top (crash, ride, hi hat), but the overall image is so realistic that it doesn't bother me that much.

I'm surprised by the width of the stage - it resembles the HD 600 after using ZMF leather pads, but there the energy in the midrange was lost much more.

So - NDH 30 is my friend now, but I consider it a specialist in a very narrow field, let's say - energetic and electric stuff, with groups up to 12 musicians.

When it comes to comfort of use, I'm thinking about replacing the head foam with a thicker one. Maybe that will help? Have any of you tried using Sennheiser 5xx or 6xx series material with NDH 30?

Some months ago a successful use of the Sennheiser 600/650 headband was described in a post here. (I was ready myself to try the same but somehow it never became necessary.) Anyway, the Sennheiser headband is a little wider than the Neumann but you can find a way to insert it (by bending/cutting a little).
As for the sound of the NDH 30, I am glad that you discovered a field of very satisfying use. My experience however, is that it is always way better than my two HD 650 especially in micro-dynamics, delicate nuances and detail/resolution. This exceptional ability along with its fine balance and naturalness made me buy the NDH 30 almost instantly after a very careful comparison with the HD 650 (all driven by an RME ADI 2 FS). Later careful comparisons with the Focal Clear MG and the Utopia 2022 (through a Naim Atom Uniti H/P edition) showed me that the sound quality and musicality of the NDH 30 places it clearly between the two Focals, closer to the Utopia. Maybe you'll discover more by giving time to the Neumann.

 

[Rainblind]

I'm glad too . About the comparison with 650 I can't say anything. I was comparing the Neumanns only with moded 600's. Thanks so much for the answer about the headband. I'm going to try it in about two weeks. That's great news!

 

[Mike F]

Yes, sometimes there is a lack of details in the top (crash, ride, hi hat), but the overall image is so realistic that it doesn't bother me that much.

I think that the vast majority of headphones out there basically sound 'bright' compared to speakers/monitors. I think the NDH 30 intentionally avoids this in order to match the sound of a studio monitor. The brightness and sparkle present in most headphones is very appealing initially (although it tends to lead to fatigue) but if you allow yourself time to adjust I'm sure that you will find all the detail which is actually present on a recording is faithfully reproduced by the NDH 30, without any of the false brightness which characterises so many headphones. That's what makes them sound so realistic IMO.

 

[feank]

After try a lot of headphones, always finish listening my Fidelios X2HR, beautiful signature, great bass impact , big soundstage……..Aoen X open, Edition XS, Focal Elex, Neumann NDH30, Ibasso SR2, DT1990, etc, always return to X2, Neumann for me is the only HP until now that win far away in the deep soundstage and instrumental separation

 

[Rainblind]

I think that the vast majority of headphones out there basically sound 'bright' compared to speakers/monitors. I think the NDH 30 intentionally avoids this in order to match the sound of a studio monitor. The brightness and sparkle present in most headphones is very appealing initially (although it tends to lead to fatigue) but if you allow yourself time to adjust I'm sure that you will find all the detail which is actually present on a recording is faithfully reproduced by the NDH 30, without any of the false brightness which characterises so many headphones. That's what makes them sound so realistic IMO.

Maybe I should be more specific of this statement about sonic realism. I meant that the NDH 30 realistically reproduce the sound of amplified instruments (hence the example of an electric guitar, bass and the note about singing closer and further from the microphone). In the case of toms, I was thinking about the sound they produce when they are microphoned. So let's say in the conditions of an mid-size club.

However, when it comes to string or wind instruments, which do not need any boost in, for example, a chamber philharmonic hall with a long reverberation or the interior of a church, here, in my opinion, the HD 600 perform much better, due to the better extended, but still natural, highs. The exception in favor of NDH 30 is - as I noted in the opening post - piano.

The same with background sounds and conveying the impression of the sound characteristics of the room itself. On the HD 60O it is possible to hear the musicians sitting in the orchestra in the further rows. On the NDH 30 the background is almost completely "black", which is very pleasant, but in my opinion it does not do justice to well-produced orchestral recordings.

 

[Plieb]

Recently, however, I found a place in my collection and a proper enviroment for the NDH 30. I don't know if my head and ears got used to them or maybe the headphones needed a little more time to warm up? It's hard for me to say this definitively.

Anyway, about listening to the classical stuff on them my opinion remains untouched - NDH 30 are too dark and too focused on macro-dynamic presentation. It's a bit like a historian giving a lecture on physics.

But... they turned out to be exceptionally effective with electric blues and hard 'n' heavy. This calm but complete presentation works in a few specific areas.

First - piano sounds. On the HD 600, the piano notes are presented mainly at the top frequencies. On NDH 30 there is more midrange and bass in the that spectrum and I for example can finally - throughout the entire duration of the album - hear Ron Levi's contribution to the B.B. King's band well. Good example is the Live in Japan 1971 (first CD release 1992). It is clear where the piano had an ornamental character, where it confidently led the melody, and where Ron Leavy played it like a drum.

The toms and snare drum also sound surprisingly coherent and realistic - they have more weight but not to the overload, boomy, point.

Electric guitar and vocals - the guitar is always smoother and the voice is slightly less present than in the HD 600 and HD 650, but they have not lost their impact at all. It's clear when Hendrix presses the strings harder and when he relaxes a little (Monterey, Spanish Castle Magic Records 2009), or when B.B. King sings further away or closer to the microphone (Newport 1972).

However, the biggest surprise here is the electric bass guitar. It is resonant, specific and detailed, but the sound is neither soft and muddy, as my acoustician friend says: "teddy bearish", nor is it hard and cold. I have never experienced such joy from listening to bass lines on, for example, Black Sabbath's Mob Rules (first American CD release, 1989). Yes, sometimes there is a lack of details in the top (crash, ride, hi hat), but the overall image is so realistic that it doesn't bother me that much.

I'm surprised by the width of the stage - it resembles the HD 600 after using ZMF leather pads, but there the energy in the midrange was lost much more.

So - NDH 30 is my friend now, but I consider it a specialist in a very narrow field, let's say - energetic and electric stuff, with groups up to 12 musicians.

When it comes to comfort of use, I'm thinking about replacing the head foam with a thicker one. Maybe that will help? Have any of you tried using Sennheiser 5xx or 6xx series material with NDH 30?

Funny how tastes differ. I find that ndh30 excels on classical. Very spacious, natural, detailed with great seperation. Especially on hi res stuff.
Can sound congested on elex and 6xx.
Love hd600 on predominantly vocals.

 

[xeizo]

After having had the NDH-30 basically since they where introduced, at the beginning of this thread, for me too I love the relaxed nature of the NDH-30 the most. It has become my mostly used late night can. Last night I listened to a classical live concert on FM-radio(I have a Sony ES-tuner) which was really great sounding and since it was live I was scared more than a few times by sounds from the audience close to me LoL ....