[indigogo]

How could we possibly forget?!

Ok, so I don't have to worry...

 

[Rob80b]

Hallo,

I’m not sure what you are asking because I don’t see a replacement grill, just an orange foam insert........

Nothing to do about modding but thanks...wasn't too sure if under the orange foam insert there was an additional felt layer.

 

[PixelSquish]

I've just spent some more time listening to the NHD30 and comparing it to the HD800.

As they are, without any EQ, the HD800 is more resolving. I find it hard to say if it really digs out detail that isn't there on the NDH30, but it's much easier to hear on the HD800.
The bass on the NDH 30 is more present at any given volume. It's very hard to be sure because of the difficulty of volume matching, but at least relative to the rest of the frequency spectrum the bass is more present on the NDH30 than the HD800.
The mids are less easy to assess. There's a sense of openness and depth on the HD800 which comes from it's superior (or at least greater) soundstage which gives a sense that the mids my be slightly recessed on the NDH30 by comparison. However, there's no real impression that there's a dip like there is on the NDH20.
The upper frequencies are, as far as I can hear, extremely good on both. Extended, refined, detailed, open sounding.
Soundstage and Instrument separation is better (or as I said before, greater) on the HD800. For me the soundstage on the HD800 is unnaturally wide and spacious though. This works well and enhances certain material (some classical) but less well with other (pop, rock - particularly older recordings). I wish that the NDH30 had a little more soundstage depth and height, but I’m happy to trade that (If indeed it is a trade rather than unfair comparison) for far greater realism. Ultimately the soundstage on the HD800 seems false and unnatural. There’s a sense somehow of being ‘disembodied’, for want of a better description. I would say though that the soundstage on the NDH30 is closer to what you would expect from near field monitors in a studio, rather than a large pair of speakers in a listening room. That’s probably what Neumann were aiming at, whereas the HD800’s are trying to give you the sense of being in a large concert hall.

agreed. I have never heard the HD800 but I have the Beyer T90 which also have a lot of soundstage depth, and the NDH30 do not. I do wish they had a tad more depth but overall the sound is fantastic, clean and detailed - it feels kind of like how the music was made to be heard on the recording. It's very refreshing and I enjoy having both those pairs of headphones to switch between. I do EQ both those headphones slightly as well.

 

[Beagle]

Ok, so I don't have to worry...

About what?

 

[Mike F]

.

 

[Mike F]

About what?

 

[headstef]

I've just spent some more time listening to the NHD30 and comparing it to the HD800.

As they are, without any EQ, the HD800 is more resolving. I find it hard to say if it really digs out detail that isn't there on the NDH30, but it's much easier to hear on the HD800.
The bass on the NDH 30 is more present at any given volume. It's very hard to be sure because of the difficulty of volume matching, but at least relative to the rest of the frequency spectrum the bass is more present on the NDH30 than the HD800.
The mids are less easy to assess. There's a sense of openness and depth on the HD800 which comes from it's superior (or at least greater) soundstage which gives a sense that the mids my be slightly recessed on the NDH30 by comparison. However, there's no real impression that there's a dip like there is on the NDH20.
The upper frequencies are, as far as I can hear, extremely good on both. Extended, refined, detailed, open sounding.
Soundstage and Instrument separation is better (or as I said before, greater) on the HD800. For me the soundstage on the HD800 is unnaturally wide and spacious though. This works well and enhances certain material (some classical) but less well with other (pop, rock - particularly older recordings). I wish that the NDH30 had a little more soundstage depth and height, but I’m happy to trade that (If indeed it is a trade rather than unfair comparison) for far greater realism. Ultimately the soundstage on the HD800 seems false and unnatural. There’s a sense somehow of being ‘disembodied’, for want of a better description. I would say though that the soundstage on the NDH30 is closer to what you would expect from near field monitors in a studio, rather than a large pair of speakers in a listening room. That’s probably what Neumann were aiming at, whereas the HD800’s are trying to give you the sense of being in a large concert hall.

Very interesting and "to the point" observations. However, I can't think of any transducer, speaker of headphone, that does not become significantly more detailed when more high frequencies are added. Remember the big difference made by that old treble control on vintage amplifiers or on the walkmans of our youth. That's why I wrote that the real comparison to do is with the HD 800 - after EQing the treble energy to about the same levels. The HD 650 is already left behind in terms of detail and resolution, without lacking treble energy. As a mater of fact it has more energy above 10 kHz than the NDH 30 has.
So a question for us who don't own a HD 800(S) to compare remains: Is the HD 800(S) more resolving than the NDH 30 when its high frequency energy is EQed down to natural balance - or more correctly when both are EQed to comparable levels of high frequencies?

PS. I wouldn't ask all these if I didn't observe such an obvious upgrade in resolution in all parts of the audio spectrum relatively to the HD 650.

 

[Beagle]

Very interesting and "to the point" observations. However, I can't think of any transducer, speaker of headphone, that does not become significantly more detailed when more high frequencies are added. Remember the big difference made by that old treble control on vintage amplifiers or on the walkmans of our youth. That's why I wrote that the real comparison to do is with the HD 800 - after EQing the treble energy to about the same levels. The HD 650 is already left behind in terms of detail and resolution, without lacking treble energy. As a mater of fact it has more energy above 10 kHz than the NDH 30 has.
So a question for us who don't own a HD 800(S) to compare remains: Is the HD 800(S) more resolving than the NDH 30 when its high frequency energy is EQed down to natural balance - or more correctly when both are EQed to comparable levels of high frequencies?

PS. I wouldn't ask all these if I didn't observe such an obvious upgrade in resolution in all parts of the audio spectrum relatively to the HD 650.

Detail is not all about treble.

 

[headstef]

Detail is not all about treble.

Exactly, that is my point. I want to know if the HD 800 is still a more resolving headphone than NDH 30 when treble difference is taken out of the equation. It should be, given the price difference, but it seems that it is not an easy answer.

 

[headstef]

Nothing to do about modding but thanks...wasn't too sure if under the orange foam insert there was an additional felt layer.

I think this video can help:

See at 4:30 and 8:45.

 

[Rob80b]

I think this video can help:

See at 4:30 and 8:45.

Thanks..I completely forgot about this video...yep just the one layer.
x

 

[Beagle]

Exactly, that is my point. I want to know if the HD 800 is still a more resolving headphone than NDH 30 when treble difference is taken out of the equation. It should be, given the price difference, but it seems that it is not an easy answer.

Hallo,

Yes I see what you mean now. For me, on the HD800, the parts of the recording float in space beside each other about a foot apart. On the HDH 20, it gels into a more cohesive musical whole, with a lovely midrange tone/timber which makes you listen to the music, not the recording. Which I think is a good thing. But both have their merits, depending on what your criteria is for getting your jollies.

 

[Beagle]

Thanks..I completely forgot about this video...yep just the one layer.
x

Hallo,

I get queasy seeing the inside guts of lovely headphones. It’s like watching Scarlett Johansson having open heart surgery.

 

[Mike F]

Very interesting and "to the point" observations. However, I can't think of any transducer, speaker of headphone, that does not become significantly more detailed when more high frequencies are added. Remember the big difference made by that old treble control on vintage amplifiers or on the walkmans of our youth. That's why I wrote that the real comparison to do is with the HD 800 - after EQing the treble energy to about the same levels. The HD 650 is already left behind in terms of detail and resolution, without lacking treble energy. As a mater of fact it has more energy above 10 kHz than the NDH 30 has.
So a question for us who don't own a HD 800(S) to compare remains: Is the HD 800(S) more resolving than the NDH 30 when its high frequency energy is EQed down to natural balance - or more correctly when both are EQed to comparable levels of high frequencies?

PS. I wouldn't ask all these if I didn't observe such an obvious upgrade in resolution in all parts of the audio spectrum relatively to the HD 650.

Yes, ‘brighter’ is not necessarily more detailed and resolving. What I mean is that I think the HD800 is more resolving ultimately than the NDH30, but because it’s also brighter it’s difficult to say by how much. However I do hear more micro detail on the HD800. The far greater soundstage and instrument separation on the HD800 also enhances that, so the effect is not just a function of its brightness anyway.

I’m afraid I don’t have an equalizer and at the moment I don’t have Sonarworks or something similar so I can’t do that test. It would in any case be very difficult to do it completely objectively with level matching and so on, and you’d still have to compensate somehow for the soundstage effect.

Edit: posted reply before seeing posts #391 & #394

 

[Rob80b]

Detail is not all about treble.

Hallo,

I get queasy seeing the inside guts of lovely headphones. It’s like watching Scarlett Johansson having open heart surgery.

Quelle imagination! Hopefully it’s a good surgeon but that one’s more like watching a forensic pathologist.