[Festive56]

I have the NDH 30 AND the 660S2. I enjoy them both immensely. On any given day I could be satisfied with either. Some days I prefer to listen to 6XX’es or 600’s. Some days I listen to the Sundara’s. I’m considering the Edition XS, or maybe the iBasso SR3, or maybe both… I might like to post my listening impressions, but if all I’m going to hear is headphone A is best and I’m a fool for liking any other, why bother? It’s like saying “I like progressive rock, and it’s the best, so 60’s hard bop holds no musical value”. What does a person say to that mentality? Why does it have to be a contest?

 

[headstef]

I have the NDH 30 AND the 660S2. I enjoy them both immensely. On any given day I could be satisfied with either. Some days I prefer to listen to 6XX’es or 600’s. Some days I listen to the Sundara’s. I might like to post my listening impressions, but if all I’m going to hear is headphone A is best and I’m a fool for liking any other, why bother? It’s like saying “I like progressive rock, so it’s the best, and 60’s hard bop holds no musical value”. What does a person say to that mentality? Why does it have to be a contest?

It doesn't have to. However, headphones are products of technology, knowledge and skill, serving the same basic purpose: reproduction of music in a satisfying way. As such, comparisons are unavoidable and as a matter of fact are the essence of this site. When we start talking serious money, comparisons are very useful or necessary. If we just wanted info on what's available, the manufacturers' sites are there. But we all know that their claims can be anything from accurate to "bold" or even misleading. Personal taste does not invalidate careful or long term tests and comparisons. For many here the most accurate AND musical reproduction is the "holly grail" of headphone technology. These two targets are not that different or "incompatible" as some want us to believe, to sell better the differentiating "perfume" of their products. Quite the opposite, I think. Of course, issues of different ear/head shape or inner ear differences, along with long term listening habits can alter the perception of sound and result to "different hearing" (also different comfort evaluation). That is where as many users' experience as possible become of importance when personal listening before buying is impossible.

In the end, when we feel that we need to replace a headphone (or a source) for something better, how do we settle to a new unit? Is it not with a systematic or automatic comparison? Whether it is a very short one or a long term one is only affected by the circumstances and individual needs.

Ed. My reply to the above post was written for an initial form of it. (Besides that, not everyone choses to listen to different kinds of music with different headphones.)

 

[jamesjames]

I have the NDH 30 AND the 660S2. I enjoy them both immensely. On any given day I could be satisfied with either. Some days I prefer to listen to 6XX’es or 600’s. Some days I listen to the Sundara’s. I’m considering the Edition XS, or maybe the iBasso SR3, or maybe both… I might like to post my listening impressions, but if all I’m going to hear is headphone A is best and I’m a fool for liking any other, why bother? It’s like saying “I like progressive rock, and it’s the best, so 60’s hard bop holds no musical value”. What does a person say to that mentality? Why does it have to be a contest?

For what it's worth, I think you're absolutely right. Measurement, impressions, reflection over time, exchange of ideas; all of these can make this an interesting place to return to - and a useful one. I've certainly found it useful to compare differing perspectives on phones when contemplating a purchase. As you suggest, it's not a contest. I don't know what can be said to those who think it is.

 

[Mike F]

re the NDH idk that it's just neutrality and accuracy that are the selling points. It clearly has more to offer imo, and I kind of view it has a HP w no weaknesses, which is incredibly rare in this hobby. that sounds like a lot, but from where i sit it's hard to see it another way.

The thing I find interesting and telling is that again and again people come to the NDH 30 who have delayed in getting it, either because it’s from a manufacturer that’s off the beaten track (for the majority of people in the audio community), or because if the hype (of which there has been a lot!) or because they see it as just a tweaked version of a failed Sennheiser experiment, and when they finally do get it the reaction and conclusion’s after careful listening and testing are almost unanimously positive - to the point of hype! But the really interesting thing is that this is now not a new headphone, having been out for almost two years, and yet the honeymoon period (if that’s what it amounted to) shows no sign of ending. Very telling IMO,

With regard to the S2, I don’t think that there is any competition. Initial comparisons were inevitable because of the similarity in price, and the fact that they are both essentially Sennheisers, but by almost all accounts, that’s where any comparison, let alone competition, ends……..

 

[Festive56]

It doesn't have to. However, headphones are products of technology, knowledge and skill, serving the same basic purpose: reproduction of music in a satisfying way. As such, comparisons are unavoidable and as a matter of fact are the essence of this site. When we start talking serious money, comparisons are very useful or necessary. If we just wanted info on what's available, the manufacturers' sites are there. But we all know that their claims can be anything from accurate to "bold" or even misleading. Personal taste does not invalidate careful or long term tests and comparisons. For many here the most accurate AND musical reproduction is the "holly grail" of headphone technology. These two targets are not that different or "incompatible" as some want us to believe, to sell better the differentiating "perfume" of their products. Quite the opposite, I think. Of course, issues of different ear/head shape or inner ear differences, along with long term listening habits can alter the perception of sound and result to "different hearing" (also different comfort evaluation). That is where as many users' experience as possible become of importance when personal listening before buying is impossible.

In the end, when we feel that we need to replace a headphone (or a source) for something better, how do we settle to a new unit? Is it not with a systematic or automatic comparison? Whether it is a very short one or a long term one is only affected by the circumstances and individual needs.

Ed. My reply to the above post was written for an initial form of it. (Besides that, not everyone choses to listen to different kinds of music with different headphones.)

I’m in complete agreement with you, comparisons are absolutely useful, I read and watch them carefully, that’s how I came to the purchasing decisions I have made. And I’m thankful for all the contributions and opinions people on this site share with one another. My point is if someone says one headphone is so much better that comparing it to another is pointless, then it pretty much stifles said comparison.

Here’s an example to illustrate my point: Yesterday I listened to the Giles Martin re-master of Abby Road with the NDH-30’s and the 12au7Liquid Platinum. The combo really allows you to hear deep in the music, within the vast soundscape you can focus on any instrument or voice, and you can rely on the fact you’re hearing it as Giles intended. Then on to the Giles Martin re-mastered White Album, particularly Volume 3, The Esher Demo. I used the 6XX’es and BHC as they imparted, to me, a vintage warm smooth sound that coupled well with the relaxed acoustic fun music being made. Both eminently enjoyable.

So is the listening experience and comparison I just made invalid or pointless just because the 30 is a technically better headphone? Should I not have bothered posting it? Hopefully you get what I’m trying to say here….

 

[jamesjames]

I’m in complete agreement with you, comparisons are absolutely useful, I read and watch them carefully, that’s how I came to the purchasing decisions I have made. And I’m thankful for all the contributions and opinions people on this site share with one another. My point is if someone says one headphone is so much better that comparing it to another is pointless, then it pretty much stifles said comparison.

Here’s an example to illustrate my point: Yesterday I listened to the Giles Martin re-master of Abby Road with the NDH-30’s and the 12au7Liquid Platinum. The combo really allows you to hear deep in the music, within the vast soundscape you can focus on any instrument or voice, and you can rely on the fact you’re hearing it as Giles intended. Then on to the Giles Martin re-mastered White Album, particularly Volume 3, The Esher Demo. I used the 6XX’es and BHC as they imparted, to me, a vintage warm smooth sound that coupled well with the relaxed acoustic fun music being made. Both eminently enjoyable.

So is the listening experience and comparison I just made invalid or pointless just because the 30 is a technically better headphone? Should I not have bothered posting it? Hopefully you get what I’m trying to say here….

Precisely.

 

[Mike F]

So is the listening experience and comparison I just made invalid or pointless just because the 30 is a technically better headphone? Should I not have bothered posting it? Hopefully you get what I’m trying to say here….

I think it’s meaningful because you explained your comparison. If you state, as you just did, that the NDH 30 is technically better, but that the S2 ‘imparted, to me, a vintage warm smooth sound that coupled well with the relaxed acoustic fun music being made’, then people know exactly what you mean. It’s a bit like comparing the experience of driving a modern performance car with the experience of driving a vintage sports car. One is, by all measurable parameters and normal and intended usage, better, but the other can be more enjoyable. And when this hobby is about enjoyment then one is as valid as the other.

 

[Festive56]

I think it’s meaningful because you explained your comparison. If you state, as you just did, that the NDH 30 is technically better, but that the S2 ‘imparted, to me, a vintage warm smooth sound that coupled well with the relaxed acoustic fun music being made’, then people know exactly what you mean. It’s a bit like comparing the experience of driving a modern performance car with the experience of driving a vintage sports car. One is, by all measurable parameters and normal and intended usage, better, but the other can be more enjoyable. And when this hobby is about enjoyment then one is as valid as the other.

As a prior MX5 owner, your analogy hits home!

 

[Festive56]

…And no, hairdressing has never been one of my interests!

Edit: Some people refer disparagingly to the Miata MX5 as a hairdressers or secretaries car.

 

[Festive56]

It doesn't have to. However, headphones are products of technology, knowledge and skill, serving the same basic purpose: reproduction of music in a satisfying way. As such, comparisons are unavoidable and as a matter of fact are the essence of this site. When we start talking serious money, comparisons are very useful or necessary. If we just wanted info on what's available, the manufacturers' sites are there. But we all know that their claims can be anything from accurate to "bold" or even misleading. Personal taste does not invalidate careful or long term tests and comparisons. For many here the most accurate AND musical reproduction is the "holly grail" of headphone technology. These two targets are not that different or "incompatible" as some want us to believe, to sell better the differentiating "perfume" of their products. Quite the opposite, I think. Of course, issues of different ear/head shape or inner ear differences, along with long term listening habits can alter the perception of sound and result to "different hearing" (also different comfort evaluation). That is where as many users' experience as possible become of importance when personal listening before buying is impossible.

In the end, when we feel that we need to replace a headphone (or a source) for something better, how do we settle to a new unit? Is it not with a systematic or automatic comparison? Whether it is a very short one or a long term one is only affected by the circumstances and individual needs.

Ed. My reply to the above post was written for an initial form of it. (Besides that, not everyone choses to listen to different kinds of music with different headphones.)

Sorry man, sometimes I just have to edit, words are slippery little SOB’s!

 

[Mike F]

As a prior MX5 owner, your analogy hits home!

Perhaps the only question, and relating the analogy back to the headphones in question, is whether one should expect to have to, or would be willing to, pay the same for both…….

 

[Beagle]

I’m in complete agreement with you, comparisons are absolutely useful, I read and watch them carefully, that’s how I came to the purchasing decisions I have made. And I’m thankful for all the contributions and opinions people on this site share with one another. My point is if someone says one headphone is so much better that comparing it to another is pointless, then it pretty much stifles said comparison.

Here’s an example to illustrate my point: Yesterday I listened to the Giles Martin re-master of Abby Road with the NDH-30’s and the 12au7Liquid Platinum. The combo really allows you to hear deep in the music, within the vast soundscape you can focus on any instrument or voice, and you can rely on the fact you’re hearing it as Giles intended. Then on to the Giles Martin re-mastered White Album, particularly Volume 3, The Esher Demo. I used the 6XX’es and BHC as they imparted, to me, a vintage warm smooth sound that coupled well with the relaxed acoustic fun music being made. Both eminently enjoyable.

So is the listening experience and comparison I just made invalid or pointless just because the 30 is a technically better headphone? Should I not have bothered posting it? Hopefully you get what I’m trying to say here….

The whole point of the exercise (IMHO) is to have fun enjoying music. Whatever makes that happen. Whether a certain headphone is ‘technically’ better than another, I couldn’t care less.

Nothing is “accurate” because recording equipment (mics etc) is not “accurate” and even if it was, how do we know we are listening back to what it was intended to be?

So just pick different flavours that bring you happiness. Or pick one that makes you consistently happy. Whatever YOUR ears tell you is “right”.

What anyone else thinks or says is irrelevant. That can be used as a source of information, but not for making decisions. Only you can do that.

 

[Mike F]

Nothing is “accurate” because recording equipment (mics etc) is not “accurate” and even if it was, how do we know we are listening back to what it was intended to be?

Really? Some mics are actually extremely accurate, and experienced sound engineers (the sought after ones at least) know how to record something as it actually sounded. Or as close as possible. That’s their job.

I agree with the rest of your post, but to suggest that nothing at all is objective isn’t really true in my opinion.

 

[equalspeace]

I’m in complete agreement with you, comparisons are absolutely useful, I read and watch them carefully, that’s how I came to the purchasing decisions I have made. And I’m thankful for all the contributions and opinions people on this site share with one another. My point is if someone says one headphone is so much better that comparing it to another is pointless, then it pretty much stifles said comparison.

Here’s an example to illustrate my point: Yesterday I listened to the Giles Martin re-master of Abby Road with the NDH-30’s and the 12au7Liquid Platinum. The combo really allows you to hear deep in the music, within the vast soundscape you can focus on any instrument or voice, and you can rely on the fact you’re hearing it as Giles intended. Then on to the Giles Martin re-mastered White Album, particularly Volume 3, The Esher Demo. I used the 6XX’es and BHC as they imparted, to me, a vintage warm smooth sound that coupled well with the relaxed acoustic fun music being made. Both eminently enjoyable.

So is the listening experience and comparison I just made invalid or pointless just because the 30 is a technically better headphone? Should I not have bothered posting it? Hopefully you get what I’m trying to say here….

Not at all man. Keeping my 600/6xx exactly for the reasons you state. They have their strengths and there are still plenty of listening sessions to be had/enjoyed w them.

There is that tendency my brain has to categorize and establish a pecking order, but there also needs to be a balance between that and just enjoying what I have. I think one reason i tend do the former though is a good one - i need to establish just how much value my hard earned dollars have provided me with a given purchase. NDH30 is a kind of golden child in that department for someone who tends to always look at the most expensive items in our hobby w a jaundiced, extremely critical eye. Based on my experience I have felt for the last few years that headphone companies are out here selling wildly expensive items w various fatal flaws. For instance tonality, I don't see the point in paying 1-2k for a headphone to then have to EQ it. I think if you're paying that much companies should be able to get that right. W this in mind, if you found your way to purchasing NDH30 you won the game.. You got immense value for your hard earned dollar by purchasing a headphone that doesn't really do anything wrong at a super reasonable price. Just enjoy it, and don't feel bad for your other headphones

 

[headstef]

Sorry man, sometimes I just have to edit, words are slippery little SOB’s!

Don't worry, I do it all the time as I am not writing in my native language (Greek) here. Often, reading afterwards what I wrote, I realize that some thoughts don't come out very clear or as precise as I wanted. So I have to edit.