[Mike F]

I think I'll get a couple......

https://cvp.com/product/sound-devic...f2Yeq-AEBDjsoWqomMKC-I3sTzvfbB7oaAnOiEALw_wcB

Yes, not all pro gear is compromised compared to 'Hi-Fi' And I suspect that it's not overpriced like much audiophile gear.

 

[glpsace]

Sorry buddy, this has been discussed a few times before - no expensive audiophile gear can match the headphone sound of the Sound Devices 888, 833, MixPre-10 II, MixPre-6 II
This is not pathetic ZOOM or TASCAM!
This is a completely different approach to sound with high-tech adult internals with real 32-bit technology and the best and cleanest preamps in the world. And believe me - these are not childish audiophile knick-knacks)))
It's enough just not to be lazy and spend a little time and look at these devices on the manufacturer's website.
The only thing that can be added is that all this has been compared many times with expensive audiophile equipment and it did not stand up to any comparison with Sound Devices!
For example, the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE not reach out of this level of sound. Which is one of the best very serious professional and audiophile equipment that I also use in my work every day.
Therefore, when I write something, I know exactly what I am writing about and this is so!

Are you saying that, as a hobbyist like myself, all I need is something like a MixPre-6II and that will be better than most, let's say, mid-tier DAC/Amp audiophile combo that I could get out there? If so in what sense?

 

[indigogo]

I think I'll get a couple......

https://cvp.com/product/sound-devic...f2Yeq-AEBDjsoWqomMKC-I3sTzvfbB7oaAnOiEALw_wcB

Yes, not all pro gear is compromised compared to 'Hi-Fi' And I suspect that it's not overpriced like much audiophile gear.

This option is not required for better listening.
You can take this:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/sound_devices_mixpre_3_ii.htm
For headphones, the sound will be almost like in 888

But I'm not campaigning, I just wanted to emphasize that these devices do not work like audiophile devices and have other more advanced internals. To be precise -
they have honest ingredients at a fair price)))

 

[chesebert]

32-bit float ! ! !
Compared to fixed-point files (16- or 24-bit), 32-bit float files store numbers in a floating-point format. This is fundamentally different than fixed point, because numbers in these WAV files are stored with “scientific notation”, using decimal points and exponents.........32-bit float USB audio streaming – the only 32-bit float USB audio interface on the market
https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-float-files-explained/
An ultra-powerful engine comprised of three FPGA circuits and six ARM processors deliver the horsepower needed for the most complex tasks. FPGA-based audio processing with 64-bit data paths ensures the highest sound quality and reliability.......

But the most important thing for sound reproduction is not 32 bits - this is that in order to implement the technology of 32 bits floating back and forth, it is necessary to use the most high-tech and advanced DAC and preamplifier today. Which are inside Sound Devices)

Like I said you need single precision 32bit min for DSP (mixing, EQ etc), ie FP32 format. To my knowledge, DSP has always been implemented in FP32 (edit: I mean modern implementation). FP32 is not ideal IMO and the hardware manufacturers should move to double precision 64bit FP in their FPGA design, ie FP64 - the FPGA chips capable of running FP64 are not cheap (2x memory is also not cheap) and it requires skill to implement and optimize to get the desired speed.

You are confusing output bit-depth with data path precision.

 

[indigogo]

Are you saying that, as a hobbyist like myself, all I need is something like a MixPre-6II and that will be better than most, let's say, mid-tier DAC/Amp audiophile combo that I could get out there? If so in what sense?

It's more difficult to control than a normal DAC or amplifier, but it has a better sound.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/sound_devices_mixpre_3_ii.htm
I don't mean to say that you need it. I just wrote what I tested with colleagues and that these are honest devices. And they give the best sound I've heard for headphones with any impedance and any level.
For example, as I wrote earlier, the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE has excellent sound, but it is slightly inferior to the Sound Devices MixPre-3 II, while the RME ADI-2/4 Pro SE costs $2500 and the Sound Devices MixPre-3 II costs $895.00 and is more compact. . But Sound Devices is not a must buy. You can enjoy what you already have.
The argument and discussion were purely at the level of perfectionism)))

 

[indigogo]

Like I said you need single precision 32bit min for DSP (mixing, EQ etc), ie FP32 format. To my knowledge, DSP has always been implemented in FP32 (edit: I mean modern implementation). FP32 is not ideal IMO and the hardware manufacturers should move to double precision 64bit FP in their FPGA design, ie FP64 - the FPGA chips capable of running FP64 are not cheap (2x memory is also not cheap) and it requires skill to implement and optimize to get the desired speed.

You are confusing output bit-depth with data path precision.

As I wrote earlier - It's already inside:

An ultra-powerful engine comprised of three FPGA circuits and six ARM processors deliver the horsepower needed for the most complex tasks. FPGA-based audio processing with 64-bit data paths ensures the highest sound quality and reliability

But it's not necessary for the best audio experience in headphones.

 

[chesebert]

As I wrote earlier - It's already inside:

An ultra-powerful engine comprised of three FPGA circuits and six ARM processors deliver the horsepower needed for the most complex tasks. FPGA-based audio processing with 64-bit data paths ensures the highest sound quality and reliability

But it's not necessary for the best audio experience.

I guess the expensive mixers have finally moved to FP64. Thats good to know.

 

[indigogo]

I guess the expensive mixers have finally moved to FP64. Thats good to know.

This is done mainly for complex multichannel sound processing and sound effects in real time.
For listening to sound in headphones and monitors, this does not really matter.

 

[xeizo]

I actually have 32-bit floating point recording in my cheap Steinberg UR22C so not that unique, it is not particularly good as a head-fi device though. But still nice with built in DSP for hardware effects. Mostly use my Tascam Model 12, much more versatile not end-game sound but good enough for 99.999% of usecases. I have a SMSL 32-bit DAC for head-fi.

 

[chesebert]

Hi,
I have the NDH-30 and really like them. I have other flagships that I have loved for years, and now I find myself preferring the Neumann's tonal balance, specifically because of the present midrange that is not emphasized in lower midrange. I find the headphone to be dybamic, impactful, well balanced, and relatively clear. I do think it could be clearer and I do think it lacks a little air. I would really like slightly more upper midrange/lower treble, and a slight bit more perceived treble extension - I am talking just a few decibels more, nothing radical.

Has anyone tried different pads that might create this slightly brighter sound I crave.

Also, and I am not sure why I wonder about this, but does anyone feel any of the ZMFs offer similar midrange presence to the NDH30 with maybe a slightly brighter upper frequency? I have not heard ZMF, but people seem to think they have great midrange presence.

Other than positioning, try silver cable and neutral solid state amp

 

[spruce]

Thought I’d leave one last post for folks like me who were pulled over to this thread from the 660S2 thread and got intrigued and curious by all the accolades posted here.

From what I’ve heard thus far pairing with my Mojo 2 and Ifi iDSD Signature, these headphones just sound so right in all the right ways! I’m really happy I got these. Regardless of being marketed as “mixing/mastering” headphones they are every bit as enjoyable to me for casual listening as my other Focal, Audeze, Shure and Sennheiser headphones.

Without getting into all the technical particulars, I would simply describe them as extremely well rounded and a very solid purchase for the current asking price. What about all the lofty claims on this thread you may ask? I believe there’s a lot of hyperbole and misinformation posted here about comparisons, as well as many of the detailed descriptions (or a few of the people posting weird stuff).

I think what is essentially most important to clarify is how much these headphones seem to have hit the mark for attributes I believe the vast majority of folks generally seek in a quality set of headphones (tonality, balance, detail, imaging, musicality, comfort, etc).

Just one note on wearing. You may need to position the earcups more forward on your head/face than you are accustomed to. For example, when I did so myself I noticed a seemingly slight channel imbalance went away. And as others have mentioned, the cord side goes over the right ear which is unusual.

 

[chesebert]

Thought I’d leave one last post for folks like me who were pulled over to this thread from the 660S2 thread and got intrigued and curious by all the accolades posted here.

From what I’ve heard thus far pairing with my Mojo 2 and Ifi iDSD Signature, these headphones just sound so right in all the right ways! I’m really happy I got these. Regardless of being marketed as “mixing/mastering” headphones they are every bit as enjoyable to me for casual listening as my other Focal, Audeze, Shure and Sennheiser headphones.

Without getting into all the technical particulars, I would simply describe them as extremely well rounded and a very solid purchase for the current asking price. What about all the lofty claims on this thread you may ask? I believe there’s a lot of hyperbole and misinformation posted here about comparisons, as well as many of the detailed descriptions (or a few of the people posting weird stuff).

I think what is essentially most important to clarify is how much these headphones seem to have hit the mark for attributes I believe the vast majority of folks generally seek in a quality set of headphones (tonality, balance, detail, imaging, musicality, comfort, etc).

Just one note on wearing. You may need to position the earcups more forward on your head/face than you are accustomed to. For example, when I did so myself I noticed a seemingly slight channel imbalance went away. And as others have mentioned, the cord side goes over the right ear which is unusual.

Would be helpful to understand your chain, sound profile preference and experiences with other TOTL cans.

 

[spruce]

Would be helpful to understand your chain, sound profile preference and experiences with other TOTL cans.

Sure. I use Apple Music lossless. As I mentioned, I was using the Mojo2 and Ifi Signature in this case. I have other more expensive headphones like the Focal Clear, LCD X and Aeon Open.

I also have many other dac/amps. I generally prefer good (natural) tonality, which may be a more specific preference in my case than others. Otherwise, I think I generally like good sounding headphones.

I could go on forever with particulars, but I just wanted to let people know it’s a very pleasant and enjoyable pair of headphones.

Sorry, I know a lot of that is vague but these headphones don’t do anything really wrong in my opinion. As I said, they just sound right.

 

[chesebert]

Sure. I use Apple Music lossless. As I mentioned, I was using the Mojo2 and Ifi Signature in this case. I have other more expensive headphones like the Focal Clear, LCD X and Aeon Open.

I also have many other dac/amps. I generally prefer good (natural) tonality, which may be a more specific preference in my case than others. Otherwise, I think I generally like good sounding headphones.

I could go on forever with particulars, but I just wanted to let people know it’s a very pleasant and enjoyable pair of headphones.

Sorry, I know a lot of that is vague but these headphones don’t do anything really wrong in my opinion. As I said, they just sound right.

Thanks. NDH30 does scale higher than Clear and Aeon with better electronics and using wave file (IMO Apple Lossless doe have rolled off highs compared with Qobuz, although I could only listen to Apple Lossless via USB which is one of my least favorite digital transport methods). Clear hits peak performance on lesser amp because of its fully open design. Aeon is just a lost cause at this point.

 

[glpsace]

I know my previous post, a while ago was ignored, but I'm really interested to read about a comparison the the Meze 109 pro for those who had the chance to listen to both, especially in the bass section.

I´m used to my Grados, especially the hemp which has more bass than most other models of the brand, and I was very pleasantly surprised when I got my hands on a Meze 109 Pro, especially in its bass mid section.

It would be very interesting for me lo read something of a comparison to the NDH 30 to put in in perspective, despite the subjectivity, of course.

Thank you and Cheers.