[FullBright1]

Agreed.

OK....)

Now, let me really help you.
Im going to assume you love headphones, and want to be able to KNOW, instantly, if a new headphone you are listening to sounds good or not.
So, there is one thing that will keep you from being able to do this, perfectly.
Let me explain...
There is such a thing, as "conditioning", and im not talking about conditioning your hair.
"conditioning", has to do with being given a stimulus, and then this stimulus becomes your personally perceived "normal".
Follow me?
Lets say you were born, and then kept alone in a room till you were 15 yrs old.
Each day, you are taught to believe a certain way, think a certain way, and act a certain way.
At the end of the 15 yrs, you are "conditioned" trained, regarding your behavior.
You have been behavior modified by the trainers, by this conditioning.
Now, this happens worldwide to people, 24/7, as their TV and all their Media, is doing this to them, so that they become conditioned, mentally, to think about things the
TV wants them to think about, and to believe about these things, according to what the TV is teaching (conditioning) them to believe.
Now, with headphones....with sound.......its the same.
A headphone that you are listening to, is becoming your teacher. Its teaching you that the sound that it is giving you, is the sound that is the Sonic TRUTH.
Each headphone, teaches you, conditions you, to hear ITS TRUTH< and so, you become conditioned to accept ITS SOUND, as the Truth, if you listen to IT a lot.
Then, you hear another headphone, and it has ITS Truth.......and on and on.
So, where this becomes problematic, is when you are listening to the Wrong Truth, and it becomes your conditioning.
This means, that if you use a headphone, most of the time as your "go to, as your Favorite, and this headphone has serious universally known flaws in its tone, sound, balance, etc, = then you are being conditioned to accept
bad sound, or wrong sound, as TRUTH.
And if you do this too much, you will never be able to appreciate another headphone that is really good sounding, because you've been conditioned by a flawed sound to hear any other sound in a headphone as, "not good", "not right"..."bad". "doesn't have enough bass"..
So, you have be very careful with using the HD650, constantly, as it will ruin your ability to discern other headphones, correctly, accurately, truthfully.

 

[XERO1]

So, where this becomes problematic, is when you are listening to the Wrong Truth, and it becomes your conditioning.

I really don't want to go too much further down this rabbit hole, but I will say this.... one man's Right Truth is the next man's Wrong Truth.

There's no such thing as the perfect headphone for EVERYONE. It simply cannot exist because it is impossible to please everyone with one single Truth.

That's why there is such a large variety of different Truths in this world. And it's just a simple matter of picking the one that is the best fit for you.

To bring this back to headphones, I went to TSAV's event last Saturday and heard a bunch of different headphones, from cheap stuff to TOTL. And there were a few there that sounded like absolute dog-schiit to me, but you know what, there were also some people there who thought they sounded great! Does that mean that they are wrong and I'm right. No. Its just that we all have different perspectives and preferences, which is why there are so many different flavors to choose from. So just pick the one (or two or three) that you like the best and enjoy!

 

[PaganDL]

Different drivers.
Different enclosures.
Different pads.
Different cables(s)
Different Headphones.

Maybe you should be more careful before you pass useless judgement.?
Try reading the book and not just look at the cover....

"but fullbright, i read online that someone else said they are the sennheiser hd630dvd, so, i needed to come and say this also".

= yawn.....

Think and literally DISCOVER = for yourself.

Well said @FullBright1

I am quite interested in these myself as I lean towards pro audio gear.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[PaganDL]

you are correct. It is obviously different headphone. Internet&alcohol don't mix. Sorry.

@Roderick,

Please stop drinking when using headfi, one day someone is going to be upset with you.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[PaganDL]

Here is the short review.

Got them today, listened to them.

I used as musical criteria :

1. Sarah Jarosz - Album - "Build Me Up From Bones".

2. Kandace Springs - Album - " Soul Eyes "

3. Steely Dan - Album - " Aja "

4. Omnia - Album - "Reflexions"

5. Azam Ali - Album - "Elysium for the Brave"

6. Corinne Bailey Ray - Album - "Corinne Bailey Ray"

7. Marketa Irglova - Album - "Muna"


Ok, let me get right to it.

The Box is one piece, shrink wrapped, and it opens like a suitcase.
There is no box in a box.
There is not case for the Headphones as an additional offering.
The cables are decent +, and are rubberized, and click in the RIGHT Headphone and not the left.

The comfort of this headphone, is a 7.5.
Its not heavy and the pads are smaller then i expected, but not uncomfortable.
The Headphones sound nothing like the 630VB.

These headphones offer something unique.......it presents a very flat - neutral presentation with a lot of clarity and resolution.
This is quite a design trick, as usually, you have more of a cloudy/veiled presentation when you have a very neutral presentation.
In the case of these headphones, you have a very (perceived) flat response, yet, the clarity is almost hyped.

Let me now take care of this part of the opinion piece as this will be the answers to what most of us want to know.

Bass response..... Neutral, but not lacking, ( as you find with Aeon C). Its very clear in its presentation, while being very flat in its tonality.
Treble response.... Neutral, without sounding rolled off., and its in this area of the Neumann's sound that is a bit of a mystery, as to have very flat treble response YET such stark clarity......is impressive
Mids...........Musical & Neutral.

Overall Tone of this headphone? > Flat and very clear with ample resolution and a nice soundstage for a closed set of headphones.

Final Thoughts :

In my opinion, this headphone is exactly what its designed to be.........a studio monitor on your head, first and foremost, and an Audiophile tool for those who prefer flat and clear, vs sweet, or rich, or overly extended.

Playing the "Aja" album by Steely Dan is a "go to" to discern if any cans are able to dig out the bass response, as this album does not have an overly projected bass, its quite neutral....nd many headphones are lost trying to find it.
Not so with the Neumann's, as the bass is crystal clear, yet small, as that is the sound of this Album, regarding the bass.

The Neumann's are Interesting headphones that will appeal more to the professional recording musician, first and foremost, and also to the discriminating Audiophile who can appreciate the idea that each (Model) of (good sounding) headphones is a unique experience that is not like any other.
These do sound good, but they have their own unique tone and appeal.
I'd love to hear these also as an open set.
Maybe in 2020.

Thanks @FullBright1,

Nice short review, sounds like a good choice for me given my semi pro hobby is sound monitoring.

I look forward to demo these myself soon.

Please keep up the good work !

Hope you have a great day !

 

[PaganDL]

Sound-wise, they are worlds apart.
The Quads are slightly more comfortable over your ears.
Both are worth owning.
If a person is in the market for closed, then the Neumann's are a set that they should investigate.
Every set of headphones, has its own personal signature sound, and it really just comes down to what satisfies your ear the most.
If you bought them both and hated them both, it wont be because of a lack of resolution or soundstage, or because the trebles are sizzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
The Quad's have what you might call an "elegant" sound, that is not for everyone.
The Neumann's have the ability to let you hear differences in all your gear.
I don't remember having used any headphones that have such a sensitivity to the gear that is driving them, as do the Neumann's.
I used them with a number of different dacs and amps and each time their sound really changes.
They really are quite a straight wire regarding letting you evaluate how your Dac's and Amp's, sound.
Ive used mine mostly with a Headroom Max, a Rupert Neve RNHP, and a Grace M900.
In each case, the Neumann's are giving me a lot of insight into the tonal difference between these 3 Gear(s), that i had not noticed as much, with other headphones.
The Quads just seem to sound like themselves, very good, no matter what you use to drive them.

Hi @FullBright1,

I really enjoy my RNHP too.

It is pretty much my reference amp for everything.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[FullBright1]

Well said @FullBright1

I am quite interested in these myself as I lean towards pro audio gear.

Hope you have a great day !

Very sensitive headphones.
Extremely sensitive to what you use to drive them.
It can well be with these, that you'll find they sound bad with the wrong imput gear and remarkable with something else.
So, if you have a few Dacs, or Amps, and the first one does not sound really good, feed them something else.
When i first used these, i hooked them to my Headroom Max, and they didnt sound good...they sounded flat and lifeless.
Then i powered them with a Rupert Neve RNHP, and they sounded like different headphones, but a touch too bright.
With the Apogee One, and the Grace M900, they again sounded much different, but, really really good.
So, with these, finding the right gear to drive them with, = huge reward in sound.

This is completely not the case with the Quads., as they seem to just sound the same, very good, no matter what you use to push them. (If you like their sound).
Not everyone will.

 

[FullBright1]

I really don't want to go too much further down this rabbit hole, but I will say this.... one man's Right Truth is the next man's Wrong Truth.

!

You are talking about right or wrong headphones, regarding personal preference.
Im not talking about that at all.
I simply told you what everyone else, (except you) understand about the HD650s.
Then i explained to you, that because of their overcooked bass response......IF you use these all the time, you will not be able to recognize what a natural or reference quality sounding headphone, is supposed to sound like.
So, enjoy the HD650s.
They are great, but they are going to cause you issues, if you try to use any other headphone.


nice talking with you, and im done.
you can have the last word.
np.



fb1

 

[watersedge1234]

Hey Fullbright,

Thanks for taking the time to review these headphones for us. Could you comment on isolation when you get the chance, particularly the outside world in? Very interested in these but work in loud environments and just want to make sure they’ll keep up. Thx!

 

[FullBright1]

Hey Fullbright,

Thanks for taking the time to review these headphones for us. Could you comment on isolation when you get the chance, particularly the outside world in? Very interested in these but work in loud environments and just want to make sure they’ll keep up. Thx!

Hi Watersedge1234,

I've lived with the Neumann's for a few days now, and the report i have for you regarding "isolation" is that they are above average in isolation, but do not work as ear plugs that offer sound.
They are not sound proof, they are nothing like Bose QC's, and so, they do offer more isolation then typical C-headphones like Beyer 880s, but, unfortunately nothing like what i believe you would need them to supply you.
Compared to any regular closed headphone, they offer more soundproofing....sure.
They are made out of what looks like an Apple Laptop type of Industrial Aluminum, so, this is going to deflect more outside interference then typical "high impact" plastic headphone's, but, its not going to seclude you from "loud" atmosphere.

 

[watersedge1234]

Greatly appreciate the thoughtful response.

I’m currently using AT M70X so based on your synopsis the Neumann’s should hopefully be at least somewhat close in isolation to my current pair. Might be worth the trade off considering the response curve being so flat - I mix live music for a living (thus the loud environment) so accuracy is important. I’ll try to scrounge up the bank and I’ll report my findings back here if I do. Thanks again!

Hi Watersedge1234,

I've lived with the Neumann's for a few days now, and the report i have for you regarding "isolation" is that they are above average in isolation, but do not work as ear plugs that offer sound.
They are not sound proof, they are nothing like Bose QC's, and so, they do offer more isolation then typical C-headphones like Beyer 880s, but, unfortunately nothing like what i believe you would need them to supply you.
Compared to any regular closed headphone, they offer more soundproofing....sure.
They are made out of what looks like an Apple Laptop type of Industrial Aluminum, so, this is going to deflect more outside interference then typical "high impact" plastic headphone's, but, its not going to seclude you from "loud" atmosphere.

 

[kman1211]

OK....)

Now, let me really help you.
Im going to assume you love headphones, and want to be able to KNOW, instantly, if a new headphone you are listening to sounds good or not.
So, there is one thing that will keep you from being able to do this, perfectly.
Let me explain...
There is such a thing, as "conditioning", and im not talking about conditioning your hair.
"conditioning", has to do with being given a stimulus, and then this stimulus becomes your personally perceived "normal".
Follow me?
Lets say you were born, and then kept alone in a room till you were 15 yrs old.
Each day, you are taught to believe a certain way, think a certain way, and act a certain way.
At the end of the 15 yrs, you are "conditioned" trained, regarding your behavior.
You have been behavior modified by the trainers, by this conditioning.
Now, this happens worldwide to people, 24/7, as their TV and all their Media, is doing this to them, so that they become conditioned, mentally, to think about things the
TV wants them to think about, and to believe about these things, according to what the TV is teaching (conditioning) them to believe.
Now, with headphones....with sound.......its the same.
A headphone that you are listening to, is becoming your teacher. Its teaching you that the sound that it is giving you, is the sound that is the Sonic TRUTH.
Each headphone, teaches you, conditions you, to hear ITS TRUTH< and so, you become conditioned to accept ITS SOUND, as the Truth, if you listen to IT a lot.
Then, you hear another headphone, and it has ITS Truth.......and on and on.
So, where this becomes problematic, is when you are listening to the Wrong Truth, and it becomes your conditioning.
This means, that if you use a headphone, most of the time as your "go to, as your Favorite, and this headphone has serious universally known flaws in its tone, sound, balance, etc, = then you are being conditioned to accept
bad sound, or wrong sound, as TRUTH.
And if you do this too much, you will never be able to appreciate another headphone that is really good sounding, because you've been conditioned by a flawed sound to hear any other sound in a headphone as, "not good", "not right"..."bad". "doesn't have enough bass"..
So, you have be very careful with using the HD650, constantly, as it will ruin your ability to discern other headphones, correctly, accurately, truthfully.

The problem with knowing what the truth is, is that it's not always obvious and there are so many different factors it's truly hard to know what it is. Not everyone will agree on what it is. To me it's the most transparent, least grainy, and most realistic sounding transducer. the tuning and balance may not be perfect but those things can be altered/fixed, the fundamental coloration and fidelity of a driver is more permanent. The biggest challenge is finding or designing the driver that is up to the task and then having it properly implemented. I personally listen to every headphone I tried extensively so I can get a better idea of it's actual driver performance and not just how it's tuned, but sometimes direct and quick comparisons is best. You may not notice a problem with a headphone unless you try something else and then you have to determine whether that problem is fixable or a fundamental problem with the driver.

 

[FullBright1]

The problem with knowing what the truth is, is that it's not always obvious and there are so many different factors it's truly hard to know what it is. Not everyone will agree on what it is. To me it's the most transparent, least grainy, and most realistic sounding transducer.

You have to taste a lot of wine to become a connoisseur.
You have be a musician, to be a musician.
You have to understand why sound, sounds good, to be able to access good sound.
Headphones are a tool that allows you a specific way of hearing music, and each headphone model has its particular way of presenting what you are hearing.

The only way to know if what you are hearing is a good headphone sound, is to have a deep understanding (context of experience) regarding how many headphones sound, and you can only have this if you've owned or own many many headphones.
After a while, and because of the discipline that has been manifested into years of headphone listening, you become very "sound educated" regarding how to discern very quickly why one set of headphones is preferred, and one set is dismissed.
So, If you are going to believe what i write or what any reviewer here writes regarding their opinion, then you have to judge their evaluations based on the amount of headphones they own, as if they dont own many, and don't have years of listening experience, then they have no true evaluation mastery of headphones, and they should talk less and listen more, until they do.
Thats just a fact of experience, as experience is the bottom line, in all things related to evaluation or performance, or mastery.
It takes money and time and true obsession to become someone who can perform on a professional level or critically evaluate anything on a level that you can trust > what they are telling you.
We trust Tyll, because he obsessed to the point he created a company that was built by his obsession.
My Bio gear page here is incomplete, and its built not by a few years, buy my many years of absolute devotion of my time to the pursuit of hearing music as well as making it for myself and for others.
Trust the people who live and breath it, and not just the people who enjoy it.
There IS a big difference.

 

[FullBright1]

Greatly appreciate the thoughtful response.

I’m currently using AT M70X so based on your synopsis the Neumann’s should hopefully be at least somewhat close in isolation to my current pair. Might be worth the trade off considering the response curve being so flat - I mix live music for a living (thus the loud environment) so accuracy is important. I’ll try to scrounge up the bank and I’ll report my findings back here if I do. Thanks again!

Thanks for reading me.

Also, you know, it will be very soon that all the people who are addicted to the "V" shaped "consumer" headphone sound will be unloading their Neumann's in a scramble to get back to their Audio Technica's and Shure's.
The Audeze and Aeon and Senn crowd will keep theirs.
So, in a month there will be "pre-owned, like mint" Neumann's for sell around here and on Ebay, and you might wait till then and save yourself some $$ Shekels".

just a thought.....

 

[kman1211]

You have to taste a lot of wine to become a connoisseur.
You have be a musician, to be a musician.
You have to understand why sound, sounds good, to be able to access good sound.
Headphones are a tool that allows you a specific way of hearing music, and each headphone model has its particular way of presenting what you are hearing.

The only way to know if what you are hearing is a good headphone sound, is to have a deep understanding (context of experience) regarding how many headphones sound, and you can only have this if you've owned or own many many headphones.
After a while, and because of the discipline that has been manifested into years of headphone listening, you become very "sound educated" regarding how to discern very quickly why one set of headphones is preferred, and one set is dismissed.
So, If you are going to believe what i write or what any reviewer here writes regarding their opinion, then you have to judge their evaluations based on the amount of headphones they own, as if they dont own many, and don't have years of listening experience, then they have no true evaluation mastery of headphones, and they should talk less and listen more, until they do.
Thats just a fact of experience, as experience is the bottom line, in all things related to evaluation or performance, or mastery.
It takes money and time and true obsession to become someone who can perform on a professional level or critically evaluate anything on a level that you can trust > what they are telling you.
We trust Tyll, because he obsessed to the point he created a company that was built by his obsession.
My Bio gear page here is incomplete, and its built not by a few years, buy my many years of absolute devotion of my time to the pursuit of hearing music as well as making it for myself and for others.
Trust the people who live and breath it, and not just the people who enjoy it.
There IS a big difference.

I understand what you are saying but even among consessours and music fanatics with many years of experience opinions differ but there is generally a consensus on what’s good(not always though) but what’s best is a matter of debate. I’ll admit I don’t have as much experience as some others but I do know what good sound is and it doesn’t take long for me at all to dismiss a poor quality headphone where in the past I was naive about it, it’s definitely getting easier with time. But I know I still have a lot to learn and experience will definitely change how I view things.