[Ryan Cao]

Hello!

I’ve been using HD598, Bose qc35 and AirPods for the past couple of years, and now decide to upgrade to a better sound system.

I mostly listen to classical, vocal, classical rock. Much appreciated if I can get some advice on the choice of headphone, DAC, amp (basically the entire system).

My budget is around 4k.

Thanks a lot!

 

[cycloverid]

My recommendation would be to watch a bunch of reviews and get an idea of which headphones are candidates for you. You're coming in here with not much of a starting point and an enormous budget. It'd probably also help to actually go audition headphones in person, as I definitely wouldn't want to just buy a headphone at this price point without a personal preference already established.

 

[Ryan Cao]

My recommendation would be to watch a bunch of reviews and get an idea of which headphones are candidates for you. You're coming in here with not much of a starting point and an enormous budget. It'd probably also help to actually go audition headphones in person, as I definitely wouldn't want to just buy a headphone at this price point without a personal preference already established.

Thanks for the reply!

Yea, if not because of Covid, I would go audition headphones in person.

With 4k budget for the system, how much should I allocate for headphone? Checking headphone reviews is a good idea, but it's hard to narrow down to a few with so many choices out there.

 

[silent-circuit]

I don't think you need to spend anywhere near 4K to get a system you'll really love, the problem is you probably won't get it 100% right the first time as reviews and recommendations can only get you so far. We all have different ears and goals.

The kind of "go to" high end headphone for classical would be the Senn 800S, to me. Is recommend buying used, as if you hate it as long as well maintained you can usually sell at our near what you paid and really only be out shipping costs. A good amp / DAC pair that'll be able to drive just about anything and is very flexible is the Topping A90 / D90 stack, or there are similarly price options from Schiit and SMSL, along with countless others.

 

[cycloverid]

I don't think you need to spend anywhere near 4K to get a system you'll really love, the problem is you probably won't get it 100% right the first time as reviews and recommendations can only get you so far. We all have different ears and goals.

The kind of "go to" high end headphone for classical would be the Senn 800S, to me. Is recommend buying used, as if you hate it as long as well maintained you can usually sell at our near what you paid and really only be out shipping costs. A good amp / DAC pair that'll be able to drive just about anything and is very flexible is the Topping A90 / D90 stack, or there are similarly price options from Schiit and SMSL, along with countless others.

I strongly and respectfully disagree with the notion of buying used in this case. Buying used is a good way of saving money if you already know what you love. If you don't know what you love, you should buy new with a good return policy and warranty. If you don't like it, you will have plenty of time to send it back for all your money back. If problems arise, you will have a full warranty as well. Buying used is a FANTASTIC way to waste time and possibly money finding out what you like in this circumstance.

I would also recommend the Focal Clear and Hifiman Arya to try, as they're insanely well reviewed and would be a good representation of a good dynamic and planar headphone. The Topping A90 / D90 stack silent-circuit recommended should run these if you had a situation where you could try both simultaneously and evaluate what you like.

Outside of this, not having any equipment already makes it fairly difficult for you to try out various options against one another. You need to figure out what will match your comfort and sound goals best - how long do you use it? what fits your head best? what sound signature to you prefer? etc.

 

[Ryan Cao]

Thank you folks! Will start checking reviews for the gears you recommended!

 

[Ryan Cao]

I don't think you need to spend anywhere near 4K to get a system you'll really love, the problem is you probably won't get it 100% right the first time as reviews and recommendations can only get you so far. We all have different ears and goals.

The kind of "go to" high end headphone for classical would be the Senn 800S, to me. Is recommend buying used, as if you hate it as long as well maintained you can usually sell at our near what you paid and really only be out shipping costs. A good amp / DAC pair that'll be able to drive just about anything and is very flexible is the Topping A90 / D90 stack, or there are similarly price options from Schiit and SMSL, along with countless others.

Thanks!

Kind of a silly question. I use a MacBook with usbc port. If I buy A90, what’s a good way to connect it with the laptop?

 

[Ryan Cao]

I strongly and respectfully disagree with the notion of buying used in this case. Buying used is a good way of saving money if you already know what you love. If you don't know what you love, you should buy new with a good return policy and warranty. If you don't like it, you will have plenty of time to send it back for all your money back. If problems arise, you will have a full warranty as well. Buying used is a FANTASTIC way to waste time and possibly money finding out what you like in this circumstance.

I would also recommend the Focal Clear and Hifiman Arya to try, as they're insanely well reviewed and would be a good representation of a good dynamic and planar headphone. The Topping A90 / D90 stack silent-circuit recommended should run these if you had a situation where you could try both simultaneously and evaluate what you like.

Outside of this, not having any equipment already makes it fairly difficult for you to try out various options against one another. You need to figure out what will match your comfort and sound goals best - how long do you use it? what fits your head best? what sound signature to you prefer? etc.

Given Amazon’s extended return policy, I agree it’s a great idea to buy new stuff to try them out

 

[silent-circuit]

Thanks!

Kind of a silly question. I use a MacBook with usbc port. If I buy A90, what’s a good way to connect it with the laptop?

Macbook -> USB C to USB B cable -> D90 -> dual XLR -> A90 -> headphones

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Thank you folks! Will start checking reviews for the gears you recommended!

Good luck on your journey. It's a very fun and expensive one. It took me 4 months of discovery, listening to lots of alternatives and tinkering every element of sound in my system and I finally have what I think it the perfect set up for me. I have eclectic taste and started out low end so I could really appreciate value, then I worked my way up the value chain and ended up where I am now. After initially hating the sound of the Sennheiser HD800S, I finally paired it with the right amp and now it delivers the perfect sound for me optimized to all sorts of Classical music and Jazz. Oddly enough, it works for other genres, too. It's perfect. For $4000, you can get a killer system.

 

[HBen]

As others have pointed out, the only way to find a system for you to listen to it by yourself. Anything else is a pretty failsafe plan to get disappointed.
There are a lot of options in this price rainge.
If you're going for a system for 4k and would like something stationary, I'd recommend to spend about 1k on a DAC, and about 1.5K each on the headphone and amplifier. Alternatively, you could also go for a mobile system and spend around 3k on a headphone and 1k on a DAP.
When I think about it ... spending this amont of cash without knowing what you're getting into is pretty ... intense.
The more I think about it the more I'd recommend: just go out and listen to stuff first... and then later decide on a budget (up to 4k). Might be the smarter plan
There are quite a number of headphones in that price range nowadays ... go try out some Sennheiser HD800S, Hifiman Arya, Andana, etc., some Stax ... that should give you an idea I personally listen to similar music like you and for me for this kind of music there's no way around Stax. (ah and for this kind of music I'd make a big way around focals. While they have their merits, classical music and vocals are not their strong points - focals generally have a small soundstage and are on the more sterile side).
Cheers and all the best on your journey

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

As others have pointed out, the only way to find a system for you to listen to it by yourself. Anything else is a pretty failsafe plan to get disappointed.
There are a lot of options in this price rainge.
If you're going for a system for 4k and would like something stationary, I'd recommend to spend about 1k on a DAC, and about 1.5K each on the headphone and amplifier. Alternatively, you could also go for a mobile system and spend around 3k on a headphone and 1k on a DAP.
When I think about it ... spending this amont of cash without knowing what you're getting into is pretty ... intense.
The more I think about it the more I'd recommend: just go out and listen to stuff first... and then later decide on a budget (up to 4k). Might be the smarter plan
There are quite a number of headphones in that price range nowadays ... go try out some Sennheiser HD800S, Hifiman Arya, Andana, etc., some Stax ... that should give you an idea I personally listen to similar music like you and for me for this kind of music there's no way around Stax. (ah and for this kind of music I'd make a big way around focals. While they have their merits, classical music and vocals are not their strong points - focals generally have a small soundstage and are on the more sterile side).
Cheers and all the best on your journey

The soundstage, clarity and detail of the HD800S were made for Classical music and Jazz. I haven't heard any Stax products, but I have heard the Focal products.

 

[Deolum]

I have a slightly different view on the topic.

Expect that forums and reviews don't help and at the start can even be contraproductive. On Headfi every single thread is around 98% positive because the fanboys just group up there. Took me around 2 years to realize that. Critical views or comments who point out serious drawbacks usually don't get much attention.

With the time you learn what to look for, which people you can trust and which people have the same taste like you or which people have the exact opposite taste of you. That's kinda helpful.

But for the start there is no way but auditioning for yourself. Like above mentioned i think buying used is the best way. If you get good deals and sell for good prices you can in theory test all the audio stuff in the world for +- 0$. I even know people who actually make profit with this.

Usually it's not enough to test 2 or 3 headphones or setups and say now you're totally satisfied. Some people have tried hundreds and are not. So always buying new stuff and returning it isn't really the best option.

Most reasonable thing to do is to hit up retailers if they have some demo/b-stock they can lend you.

Second problem with demoing is that you need a whole setup. If you try a headphone at a store on a different setup you can not compare it. If you want to compare different dacs or components the whole mess really starts because every single piece in the chain has to be the same. There are so many pieces that influence the sound. The source, the file, the digital transport to the dac, the implementations of usb or coax ports on the dac, the dac itself, the amp, for some people the cables etc. So comparing single parts to build a whole setup is not a short term task but a very long way.

If i started new from scratch i wouldn't go that way again but i would solve the problem with an all in one device. So before you demo single pieces of a setup and start a years long journey i'd first compare some all in one devices. I'd look out for devices that consist of

a) a streamer
b) a dac
c) an amp

If you can compare 2 or 3 of those devices you can imo make a much more solid decision then when comparing 2 or 3 different single amps or dacs unless you want to copy the exact same setup that you've heard. But especially in your price segment the all in one devices are in my experience superior to those selfmade mixed combos. You can have 3 individually very good devices that when mixed together just don't hit you taste because the combination doesn't harmonize.

So my advice: give 1 or 2 solid all in one devices that include a streamer a chance before you dive in the deeper game. If you like it it saves you a big chunk of time and money.

My prefs for 4k:

Choice A:

2 k - All in one streamer, dac, amp preamp

200 $ - Headphones (HD600 or HD650)

Spend the rest for active speakers


Choice B:

2 k - All in one streamer, dac, amp

2 k - highend headphones like Utopia, Arya after auditioning them

Choice C:

2k - streamer, dac

2k - E-stat amp, headphone set like the Stax L700 or the Hifiman Jade II

Choice D:

500 $ - DAP

2 k - easy to drive highend headphone like Utopia or AH-D9200

Spend the rest on IEMs

 

[silent-circuit]

IEMs are a whole other rabbithole. Stay away.

 

[UltraFine]

I would like to point you to the Focal Clear. It is also on sale right now, you can get it for 999€ atm.