[goodolcheez]

First of all, I'm new to audiophile forums. I'm also new to mid-to-high end earphones. But I know my ears have good taste buds.
 
Oh, I'm also new to professional audio review sites. I came here because I found it to be very informative and technical.
 
Anyways, I wanted to upgrade my earphones that came with my iPod Touch 4g. Over at review sites like CNET have been praising about how good Klipsch Image S4 is. People who posted comments on the web (CNET, BestBuy, etc etc) were saying the bass is awesome and it's crisp and clear and has great highs. They say it's phenomenonal...  so I bought it and tried it. It's totally different than what I expected. Bass is *great*, has nice deep smooth bass. But it has no treble. I was shocked how terrible it was. I only have a few songs that demand bass / lows but all the rest of them are not. The earphone that comes with my iPod Touch "blows it out of the water"... minus the bass.  I'm guessing iPod touch earphone is worth what... 15 bucks?  I'm scratching my head here.  Yes I have tried all ear tips that came with and they were sealed nice and tight in my ear canals. They actually sounded a little better by loosening them up. Some treble was restored and bass was reduced. But overall the sound wasn't good enough to justify for $85 I paid.
 
I read some fantastic reviews at iLounge and members here at Head-Fi about the Etymotic Research ER-4P and HF5.  It seems to be a "trend" that the Klipsch Image series put too much effort on bass and leave out the treble part. Even the more expensive, higher-end Image X10 was trumped by ER4P in the treble department. So I realized, "Oh, I need to go Etymotic route!". I think it's pretty safe to say I'm going in the right direction as I'm more interested in treble and *crispness* of the sound rather than bass.
 
My price budget is upto $150. My question is, is the Etymotic HF5 night and day difference over the Klipsch Image S4 in treble department?  My S4 sounded very "muddy" and "spongy". Where does HF5 stand? Is it far better? or a little better?  Please reply as I'm ready to make the purchase.
 
 
 
Thank you sweeties.

 

[rangerid]

Yea, though I never heard the S4i, HF5s are brutally clear and detailed. The treble is very well extended, not overly bright, easy to listen to, and extremely detailed. The bass is extremely tight, they are a bit too tight for my liking, so I ended up eq'ing them, which HF5s respond very well to. 

 

[goodolcheez]

Quote:

Yea, though I never heard the S4i, HF5s are brutally clear and detailed. The treble is very well extended, not overly bright, easy to listen to, and extremely detailed. The bass is extremely tight, they are a bit too tight for my liking, so I ended up eq'ing them, which HF5s respond very well to. 

Thanks for the input. I like the sound of "brutal" you described. Glad to hear the HF5 responds well to eq'ing. My iPod Touch doesn't seem to have good EQ options but at least it offers presets that I can select one at a time. I use "Rock" which seems to enhance both bass and treble, for this iPod anyway. Would this help loosen up the bass a little bit? I'm not too sure if I'm gonna like tight bass... What MP3 player do you use and what EQ setting do you use?  
 
I tried to like Klipsch Image S4 as much as I could but lacking treble bothers me a lot..  A few songs sound really good, in some case, incredible. All the rest of songs (I listen to mostly pop) doesn't sound good. Maybe I need to change my listening habit and try to adapt the bass and muddy sound?

 

[Gastronomic]

First. Hf5 has a great tremble and the best isolation.
Second. With them, you may feel that bass is lacking.
Third. Like you said, "Maybe I need to change my listening habit and try to adapt the LACK bass and muddy sound"
Fourth. You'll understand how wrong have you been listening to music.

 

[sari0n]

If you're asking about the treble department then yea, the HF5's are head and shoulders above the s4i.  Besides having great treble, HF5's also have a lack of bass which makes the mids and highs stand out even more.  The HF5's and S4's have totally different sound signatures, don't expect something like a s4 with better highs.
With the HF5's, very low bass like guitar baselines and other rumbly bass is extremely faint.  A lot of songs that have like all the music plus low bass in the background is basically going to have all of that low bass cut out.  This makes the music very "sterile" and clean, something that certain people don' t like.  Stuff like drum beats will be tight and fast, but not particularly recessed.
If you want some headphones that have both bass and sparkly highs I would suggest you look into the triple.fi 10's.  You can probably still get them for about $150 on ebay or in the trade forums here, which isn't too much more than the HF5's.  The Fischer Audio Eternas might be worth looking into as well.

 

[goodolcheez]

Quote:

First. Hf5 has a great tremble and the best isolation.
Second. With them, you may feel that bass is lacking.
Third. Like you said, "Maybe I need to change my listening habit and try to adapt the LACK bass and muddy sound"
Fourth. You'll understand how wrong have you been listening to music.

Or, maybe I need stay with my listening habit for better TREBLE sound...
Second, I think I can live with little bass. But I can't seem to accept lack of treble sound.
Third. Like you said, HF5 has a great TREBLE and isolation....
 
that was funny.

 

[goodolcheez]

Quote:

If you're asking about the treble department then yea, the HF5's are head and shoulders above the s4i.  Besides having great treble, HF5's also have a lack of bass which makes the mids and highs stand out even more.  The HF5's and S4's have totally different sound signatures, don't expect something like a s4 with better highs.
With the HF5's, very low bass like guitar baselines and other rumbly bass is extremely faint.  A lot of songs that have like all the music plus low bass in the background is basically going to have all of that low bass cut out.  This makes the music very "sterile" and clean, something that certain people don' t like.  Stuff like drum beats will be tight and fast, but not particularly recessed.
If you want some headphones that have both bass and sparkly highs I would suggest you look into the triple.fi 10's.  You can probably still get them for about $150 on ebay or in the trade forums here, which isn't too much more than the HF5's.  The Fischer Audio Eternas might be worth looking into as well.

 
Thanks for the info! That was very informative. UE triple.fi 10's appear to be more expensive. I am starting to wonder these earphones are getting overpriced for the sound you get. I am still interested, like having good quality stuff. I may have to hold off on the earphones for now. Gotta save up some money.
 
Thanks again, sari0n.
 

 

[jleewach]

HF5s are definitely better than the S4s. I'm honestly not sure why CNet & the likes reviewed the S4s to overly-favorable. They're ok at first listen, but with any length of time listening, it quickly becomes apparent just how sibilant/harsh the highs are, and how bloated the bass is. 
 
I think Klipsch should have stuck w/ the Custom series, but that's getting off topic. Ety is BEST when interested in clarity/detail. Every single model. 

 

[rangerid]

Hey goodolcheez, I have both TF10 and HF5s and the HF5s are superior:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/533167/quick-comparison-etymotic-hf5-ultimate-ears-triplefi10
 
Also, Etys respond VERY well to EQ, all i did was +5db on bass on rockbox and bass is not lacking at all, in fact, it's perfect and I normall prefer bass north of neutral. Also, slight eq of bass has NO effects on clarity, mids, and highs. just make sure your source has a good eq. 

 

[goodolcheez]

sari0n, thanks again for the info. With your help, I did some digging and found some more info at iLounge.
 
"For similar reasons, the triple.fis do outstrip Etymotic’s vaunted ER-4P earphones overall, particularly in low-end performance, where the Etymotics have always been tight and detail-focused by comparison with warmer, bigger-sounding alternatives. The difference in bass is even more noticeable here than with the UE-10 Pros, which had dedicated low-end speakers inside; in essence, the triple.fi is a ER-4P for bass fans, at a $100 premium. (For reference, Ultimate Ears’ super.fi 5 EB was made for bass fans, but fell a step below the ER-4Ps in sound quality; the triple.fis add less bass but sound markedly better overall.)"
 
 
"The only place where the triple.fi 10 Pros fall short on audio is by direct comparison with Shure’s E500PTH earphones, which established a new gold standard for triple-driver sound: truly full-frequency and detailed across the spectrum, with just enough power in the low-end and sparkle on the high-end to make music sound agreeably better rather than over-exaggerated to different types of listeners. As was the case when the E500s were compared with the UE-10 Pros, the triple.fi’s sound is flatter, lacking the E500’s punch, and with less distinction between individual instruments. If the two earphones had been priced at the same level, one would be good and the other great, but with a $100 price gulf between them, it’s a much closer call. When fulfilled, Shure’s promise to release less expensive E500 earphones without their included PTH microphone pack - a major feature differentiator - will likely shift the balance more towards E500’s favor."
 
That Shure E500 must be really bad a$$ performer. Sounds like that's the one that will give me what I want. Hell... since all these cost so much why not just go all out and spend several hundred dollars.

 

[jleewach]

Quote:

sari0n, thanks again for the info. With your help, I did some digging and found some more info at iLounge.
 
"For similar reasons, the triple.fis do outstrip Etymotic’s vaunted ER-4P earphones overall, particularly in low-end performance, where the Etymotics have always been tight and detail-focused by comparison with warmer, bigger-sounding alternatives. The difference in bass is even more noticeable here than with the UE-10 Pros, which had dedicated low-end speakers inside; in essence, the triple.fi is a ER-4P for bass fans, at a $100 premium. (For reference, Ultimate Ears’ super.fi 5 EB was made for bass fans, but fell a step below the ER-4Ps in sound quality; the triple.fis add less bass but sound markedly better overall.)"
 
 
"The only place where the triple.fi 10 Pros fall short on audio is by direct comparison with Shure’s E500PTH earphones, which established a new gold standard for triple-driver sound: truly full-frequency and detailed across the spectrum, with just enough power in the low-end and sparkle on the high-end to make music sound agreeably better rather than over-exaggerated to different types of listeners. As was the case when the E500s were compared with the UE-10 Pros, the triple.fi’s sound is flatter, lacking the E500’s punch, and with less distinction between individual instruments. If the two earphones had been priced at the same level, one would be good and the other great, but with a $100 price gulf between them, it’s a much closer call. When fulfilled, Shure’s promise to release less expensive E500 earphones without their included PTH microphone pack - a major feature differentiator - will likely shift the balance more towards E500’s favor."
 
That Shure E500 must be really bad a$$ performer. Sounds like that's the one that will give me what I want. Hell... since all these cost so much why not just go all out and spend several hundred dollars.

Well, I can only say that there are many on this forum (myself included) who think the E500 (SE530) is a pretty mediocre iem (for it's price.) That review you quoted is pretty outdated (based on the fact that it lists the model as the E500 instead of SE530.) I've owned both the SE530 & ER4 for many years, and in my opinion, the ER4 is MILES ahead of the Shures in comparison. Doing A/B comparisons between the 2, it feels like there's a complete layer of music missing from the SE530s, compared to the ER4s; that layer being in the treble region. In my humble opinion, the Shures have a pretty significant rolloff in the treble that is inexcusable for the price they go for. Many others disagree, but that's my opinion. Reviewers for more mainstream sites such as CNet & iLounge tend to base their ratings on things such as bass quantity, treble quantity over quality. 
 
btw... the PTH module is complete & utterly useless crap. 

 

[goodolcheez]

 
Quote:

Well, I can only say that there are many on this forum (myself included) who think the E500 (SE530) is a pretty mediocre iem (for it's price.) That review you quoted is pretty outdated (based on the fact that it lists the model as the E500 instead of SE530.) I've owned both the SE530 & ER4 for many years, and in my opinion, the ER4 is MILES ahead of the Shures in comparison. Doing A/B comparisons between the 2, it feels like there's a complete layer of music missing from the SE530s, compared to the ER4s; that layer being in the treble region. In my humble opinion, the Shures have a pretty significant rolloff in the treble that is inexcusable for the price they go for. Many others disagree, but that's my opinion. Reviewers for more mainstream sites such as CNet & iLounge tend to base their ratings on things such as bass quantity, treble quantity over quality. 
 
btw... the PTH module is complete & utterly useless crap. 

Thanks for the awesome info. I'm learning more and more.  It would be a problem for me if the device lacks in treble detail.. I'm a treble freak. I get really anal with this department.  Bass isn't my absolute priority. Thanks for letting me know that the Shures E5xx series isn't a stellar performer for the price. Let me scratch that off my list.
 
Got a question about sound staging. I want some sound staging. Can this be achieved only from having more bass, i.e. better low ends?  Or can it also be achieved from other sound regions?
 
This is what I want from sound:
 
 
- Treble and crispness - Maximum priority
- Detail - Mid to max priority
- Sound stage - Mid priority
- Bass - Low to Mid priority (I don't expect butt load of it, just enough to make the sound balanced, I ain't bass head)
 
 
And I want "Reverberation". The member rangerid (thanks to him) posted a link just earlier and it mentions about using equalizer to further enhance the sound quality (or spectrum?).  One of my BIGGEST demands is the reverberation. Can Etymotic HF5 respond well to this setting? rangerid did say it responds well to the EQ..
 
 
Plenty of TREBLE + mild BASS + Reverberation = PURE HEAVEN (for me that is)
 
 
You guys still think HF5 can do it?
 
 
thank you

 

[goodvibes]

I prefer the 530 to and HF5 to tf10. For me, if the mids don't sing, it becomes a quantitative assessment but I can see a different view if one if more selective in music genres. You'll find that sometimes an opinion is formed depending on a DAPs sig, tips etc. so there's room for plenty for opinion here. It's personal and I think your idea of going HF5 is a VG one for what you want. I don't own but listened a few times never found them brutal anything and more forgiving than their big brothers. Less etched than 4p. Bass is a bit less than I like but actually linear by measurement. Use the triple flange to start. Many find the bass to their liking.

 

[Xymordos]

You should get the ER4P, with that you realize what you've been missing out on in your music

 

[ru9]

Quote:

My price budget is upto $150. My question is, is the Etymotic HF5 night and day difference over the Klipsch Image S4 in treble department?  My S4 sounded very "muddy" and "spongy". Where does HF5 stand? Is it far better? or a little better?  Please reply as I'm ready to make the purchase.
 

The HF5 is far better than the S4. The HF5 gives a pleasant sound compared to the piercing highs of the S4.