[Omega]

Quote:

Anyhow, reliability is sexy.  

No it isn't.  
 
Exhibit A:
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

No it isn't.  
 
Exhibit A:
 

You sure?
 
Exhibit B:

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

No it isn't.  
 
Exhibit A:
 

I actually think that's a nice, clean design.  It doesn't have anything it doesn't need, like unnecessary creases, superfluous wings and chrome for the sake of having chrome.
 
This is the older model.  My cousin has one a lot like it, with the 2.4L I4 and 5 speed.  He's got something around 260,000 miles on it, no problems.  I wouldn't be surprised to see it go over 300,000 without a serious repair.
 
I bought my car because it has the same drivetrain.
 
Oh yeah, and his insurance is something like $350 a year and registration is maybe $100.  So roughly $500 a year, no car payments, no interest, no repair bills.  Just add gas, change the oil and follow the service routine.

 

[Omega]

Man alive, you two are obviously operating under a different definition of sexy!  

 

[Anaxilus]

I would actually prefer the stamped steel wheels to those chrome covers from Pep Boys.  I guess I'm just not sexy.  Designs w/o chrome wheels always look so bland.  

 

 

[bahnbrenner71]

I am an avid German car enthusiast and can explain why you had such a terrible experience with the Merc ML. 
 
Mercedes Benz introduced the ML in a time when SUV popularity was exploding. Every car maker that previously did not have an SUV in its line up developed and sold one to cash in on how well they were selling. Mercedes Benz was no different. The fact that they under-engineered the ML and rushed its development is less than half the story, however. 
 
In 1998, Mercedes Benz merged with Chrysler in an effort to revive the Chrysler brand and bring down the cost of producing Mercedes Benz cars. The merger was a complete failure, and Mercedes made the worst cars in their history. Likewise, the Chrysler automobiles from this generation were some of the best in Chrysler's history (http://www.worldcarfans.com/10805221239/mercedes-benz-admits-to-chrysler-merger-mistake). The ML is a product of this era. People bought the car because they assumed (reasonably so) that the ML would live up to what people expected from a Mercedes-Benz. Unfortunately, and as you know, the ML was a terrible, terrible car. Mercedes Benz and Chrysler eventually divorced, and today MB is making the best cars in the world. I really, really encourage you to go check out the new ML, GL, or G. I know you had a bad experience, but Mercedes SUVs are the best on the market today. 
 
The BMW is a solid car with an awesome maintenance plan. The Porsche just got a facelift and is super cool, but way overpriced and just not worth the money. The Ranger Rover is a bad idea. Audi is making the Q5 and Q7, which are both worth a look.  

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Man alive, you two are obviously operating under a different definition of sexy!  

 
Is this a good time to mention that I find the AKG K-1000 beautiful?

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

today MB is making the best cars in the world.
 
Sorry, but that is just largely untrue.  I know Merc techs that are swapping out engines left and right for the price of a new Lexus GS.  Talking Catastrophic failures here.  The only MBs worth any consideration are their Diesels IMO.  At least that used to be the case unless their new diesels are as bad as their petrol vehicles.  There is a reason MB has the largest depreciation of any car in America of 84% after 5 years.  Why you see only leased MB driving around when they aren't on the side of the road.  Why the only old MBs you see driving are diesels from the 70s-80s.  You can see 20-30 year old Corollas still running around all over.  In Afghanistan the grey market Corolla is the number one driven vehicle and most have over 200-300k miles.  I don't see any indicators that support your argument that they are the 'best' in the world.  Best at offering the most electrical features prone to fail, most unreliable powertrains at the highest prices perhaps.  Good luck finding a Mercedes tech w/ downtime.  I do love their interior luxury amenities far more than BMW, which is horrid, but MB seats for me always have and are still terribly uncomfortable.  I also can't stand that cheap perforated German headliner material that looks and feels cheap.  I can step into an Aston Martin for almost half the price of an S65 and get an Alcantara headliner.  Yeah, if I want to give 15-20% of my purchase price to labor unions I can do that in America.  Thanks but no thanks. 
 
The BMW is a solid car with an awesome maintenance plan. 
 
I've talked to BMW techs as well.  You might want to verify the actual performance of that 'free' maintenance yourself.  As the Russians say, "Trust, but verify."  They also seem to be a bit rusty in the art of designing reliable Turbo powertrains recently.

My 2 cents.

 

[bahnbrenner71]

I, too, know and have spoken with a number of MB technicians - all of whom would vehemently disagree with you. The fact of the matter is, Mercedes-Benz engineer their cars to a standard that is unmatched anywhere in the automotive industry. 
 
As for he depreciation issue - it is more or less isolated to their most expensive models i.e CL/S/SL65 AMG. 

 

[Uncle Erik]

I, too, know and have spoken with a number of MB technicians - all of whom would vehemently disagree with you. The fact of the matter is, Mercedes-Benz engineer their cars to a standard that is unmatched anywhere in the automotive industry. 


As for he depreciation issue - it is more or less isolated to their most expensive models i.e CL/S/SL65 AMG. 

Then what's up with all those little black dots in Consumer Reports? Maybe the technicians are too busy repairing the 700-position power seats with twin heated cupholders and the onboard microwave oven with built-in Bluetooth control via cellphone to have time to read magazines.

I'll grant you that MB has a finely engineered advertising campaign. Just like other savagely criticized luxury brands, such as Rolex, Mont Blanc and Bose.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Mercedes-Benz engineer their cars to a standard that is unmatched anywhere in the automotive industry. 

Care to elaborate?  As someone ASE certified to blueprint my own engines I'd like to learn more about this standard.  Please enlighten us.
 
Be aware too that my discussions are technician to technician away from the workplace.  Not customer to technician at the dealer.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Then what's up with all those little black dots in Consumer Reports?

As far as I can tell, German engineering has a long and storied history of ignoring mundane engineering principles like producibility, reliability, and cost management in favor of eeking out that extra sliver of performance. They usually get away with it since the new luxury car market revolves around leasing and it takes some truly boneheaded engineering for a model to have significant issues within 3 years / 36k miles.

 

[ivanrocks321]

Good news the Benz looks like it can b repaired for a minimal amount of cash. So we probably will not be shopping for a new car. But I have come to understand that electronic and computerized systems can complicate repairs for cars and started to look for low tech cars. I know that overseas there is a much greater selection of cars that are not for sale in the US. I know that are a few ways that you can import them to the us legally such as the 25yr law, but is there any other way that is easier. I would love to own a Wiesmann MF3 because it simple yet well made and absolutely unique and beautiful, but im not sure how I would go about legally getting it to the US and on the road. I looked around and it seems importing it as a "kit" would work. Wonder if anyone has any insight into the process of getting someone to disassemble than putting it back together, to registration and insurance cost. 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Oh no, now is the time to sell the Benz. Put something in the classified like, "just gone through by mechanic, clean bill of health, everything works, have repair records."

As for importing cars, be careful. It varies from state to state and some can be a real pain about things. I don't know if NY is fussy about emissions, but California has some odd rules requiring original smog equipment, etc. on a car. It can make some vehicles almost impossible to register.

Another problem is getting insurance. If an insurer has insufficient data for a model or starts to worry about having to import rare parts from overseas and speciality repair shops, they might refuse to insure, hit you with a heavy premium.

If you want something easy to repair yet somewhat exotic, pick up a classic. A friend has a '61 Corvette. It needed a little work, but it ended up costing around the same as a mid-line BMW. He does all the routine maintenance himself, the 327 is dead reliable, it's reasonable to insure, and he can't go around the block without a wave or a positive comment. Oh, and it doesn't depreciate and registration is cheap.

If you pick a popular classic, like a Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Thunderbird, and pretty much any old Ford or GM truck, you can upgrade them to four wheel disc brakes, ABS, EFI, a variety of suspension options, overdrive transmissions for good highway mileage, and much else. It requires more effort than goin through the dog and piny show at a dealer for a new car, but they pay off in practicality and value.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Oh no, now is the time to sell the Benz. Put something in the classified like, "just gone through by mechanic, clean bill of health, everything works, have repair records."

As for importing cars, be careful. It varies from state to state and some can be a real pain about things. I don't know if NY is fussy about emissions, but California has some odd rules requiring original smog equipment, etc. on a car. It can make some vehicles almost impossible to register.

Another problem is getting insurance. If an insurer has insufficient data for a model or starts to worry about having to import rare parts from overseas and speciality repair shops, they might refuse to insure, hit you with a heavy premium.

If you want something easy to repair yet somewhat exotic, pick up a classic. A friend has a '61 Corvette. It needed a little work, but it ended up costing around the same as a mid-line BMW. He does all the routine maintenance himself, the 327 is dead reliable, it's reasonable to insure, and he can't go around the block without a wave or a positive comment. Oh, and it doesn't depreciate and registration is cheap.

If you pick a popular classic, like a Corvette, Mustang, Camaro, Thunderbird, and pretty much any old Ford or GM truck, you can upgrade them to four wheel disc brakes, ABS, EFI, a variety of suspension options, overdrive transmissions for good highway mileage, and much else. It requires more effort than goin through the dog and piny show at a dealer for a new car, but they pay off in practicality and value.

 
x2  
 
Thx Erik, you just reinvigorated my old interests in building up an early model Stingray from the ground up.