[Headoh]

I own both. They're both closed back.

I have a somewhat larger head. Looks like the plastic headbands crack easily on the PSB so that might be out

 

[Headoh]

I think you may be confusing the A900X Art Monitor closed back with the AIR Series AD900X, which are the open-back variant.

I wasn't confused there. I thought over ear was open back and saw the PSB was over ear on Google. I was confused either way in the end regardless. Hahaha

 

[nraymond]

I wasn't confused there. I thought over ear was open back and saw the PSB was over ear on Google. I was confused either way in the end regardless. Hahaha

"Over ear" describes how the pads fit... they fit over (or around) your ears. Also called circumaural. Other types of headphones are on-ear (or partially on-ear), and in-ear (also called earphones). There are also earbuds, which sit just outside the ear canal. Any of those headphones/earphones can be closed-back, partially open back, or open back (and whether they are closed or open has an impact on their noise isolation ability, not to be confused with active noise cancellation, which is very different).

 

[dr cornelius]

I've been reading up on reviews for best closed headphones for under $200. Been looking at ATH-A900X and XPT100. What are people's thoughts between these three? Looking for natural sounding headphones which lead me to HP50 (and subsequently here).

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!!

I haven’t heard the ATH-A900X or XPT100 - but for under $200 another way to go could be Sony MDR 7506’s with the Sonarworks True-Fi or Ref 4 plug-in. I double checked my HP-50’s and the comfort just isn’t there for me and some kind of EQ is essential to bring in some hi-end. With the Sonarworks EQ they do improve a lot, but not worth the combined cost IMO...

 

[Headoh]

Am I possibly missing something? It seems the ATH-M50X does a better job at shifting it's slopes on the graph at designated frequency points per the Harman curve? ATH-A900X seems to have the smoother lower frequencies (not as much movement as with M50X) but has wilder swings past the 4khz mark.

Are there other things to consider besides these graphs from a measurable objective point of view? Not sure why such a large difference of opinion between the NAD, A900X, and M50X when their curves are similar?

 

[SDBiotek]

Am I possibly missing something? It seems the ATH-M50X does a better job at shifting it's slopes on the graph at designated frequency points per the Harman curve? ATH-A900X seems to have the smoother lower frequencies (not as much movement as with M50X) but has wilder swings past the 4khz mark.

Are there other things to consider besides these graphs from a measurable objective point of view? Not sure why such a large difference of opinion between the NAD, A900X, and M50X when their curves are similar?

The thing you're missing is that humans are not audio measurement devices. The frequency and distortion plots are no guarantee that you will like one headphone better than another. One model may measure better in some ways,but you might not like how it clamps on your head, doesn't have enough room for your ears, or how it sounds with your preferred music. There is no "right or wrong" answer.

 

[Headoh]

The thing you're missing is that humans are not audio measurement devices. The frequency and distortion plots are no guarantee that you will like one headphone better than another. One model may measure better in some ways,but you might not like how it clamps on your head, doesn't have enough room for your ears, or how it sounds with your preferred music. There is no "right or wrong" answer.

I do understand what each individual enjoys is subjective. I guess I'm wondering, if you have several headphones and they're all close to one another like these three, EQ'd them to match the Harman curve, would they all sound identical?

We sort of are audio listening devices, no? Each with our own acoustics? Meaning, if we find a curve we like then all we'd need to do is look for headphones that follow that curve?

 

[SDBiotek]

I do understand what each individual enjoys is subjective. I guess I'm wondering, if you have several headphones and they're all close to one another like these three, EQ'd them to match the Harman curve, would they all sound identical?

We sort of are audio listening devices, no? Each with our own acoustics? Meaning, if we find a curve we like then all we'd need to do is look for headphones that follow that curve?

Just a guess, but they would not sound identical to most people, although for some all three headphones may sound very similar. How the headphones fit a person, seal ( or not) around the ear, the distance of the driver's from your ears, and a person's sensitivity to different frequencies, also play a huge part in how a headphone sounds to us. Also, not all headphones can "just be EQ'd" equally we'll. Depending on the drivers themselves and how they are physically damped, for example, some headphones that are bass light will never produce the idealized bass response based on Harmon or any other curve. Some headphones just end up producing a bloated one-note bass that can even muddy up how the mid-range sounds.

 

[Headoh]

Just a guess, but they would not sound identical to most people, although for some all three headphones may sound very similar. How the headphones fit a person, seal ( or not) around the ear, the distance of the driver's from your ears, and a person's sensitivity to different frequencies, also play a huge part in how a headphone sounds to us. Also, not all headphones can "just be EQ'd" equally we'll. Depending on the drivers themselves and how they are physically damped, for example, some headphones that are bass light will never produce the idealized bass response based on Harmon or any other curve. Some headphones just end up producing a bloated one-note bass that can even muddy up how the mid-range sounds.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I suppose headphone manufacturers have two challenges if they'd like to sell to more people. 1) physically engineer how a headphone fits such that you'd get the same fit and seal. 2) once a generally accepted standard curve that fits the mode of an entire target audience is discovered, create headphones that would deliver that curve.

 

[nraymond]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I suppose headphone manufacturers have two challenges if they'd like to sell to more people. 1) physically engineer how a headphone fits such that you'd get the same fit and seal. 2) once a generally accepted standard curve that fits the mode of an entire target audience is discovered, create headphones that would deliver that curve.

The industry is definitely pursuing these things:

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/15-minutes-harmans-audio-guru-sean-olive

"At Harman we can characterize and predict the sound quality of loudspeakers with 86 percent accuracy based on a set of comprehensive anechoic measurements... We are doing similar research to develop specifications for headphones that indicate how good they sound. So some progress is being made but there is still more work to do."

If you follow Sean Olive's industry papers and presentations, you can see roughly where the industry is at:

https://www.almainternational.org/y...Preferred_Bass_and_Treble_Levels.17132432.pdf

https://www.listeninc.com/wp/media/Perception_and_-Measurement_of_Headphones_Sean_Olive.pdf

 

[Green Caffeine]

a NAD Viso HP50 is able to sound very good right out of a phone with no amp or external DAC, and doesn't scale a ton with better equipment. How do the NADs compare to an UNAMPED Beoplay H6 gen 2, in soundstage, imaging, bass qualities/presence, and mids (vocals, thinness, graininess)? Like straight from a phone or laptap in general (you can neglect the different soundcards and whatnot). I have my suspicions about the 2nd gen H6's surpasssing the NADs in bass presence, since the H6s are more on-ear than fully around-ear. The NADs also have lush mids and are known for excellent closed-headphone soundstage, and I've heard some reports of the H6's getting tinny as your go up in frequencies.

Can anyone lend some thoughts?

 

[bcaulf17]

a NAD Viso HP50 is able to sound very good right out of a phone with no amp or external DAC, and doesn't scale a ton with better equipment. How do the NADs compare to an UNAMPED Beoplay H6 gen 2, in soundstage, imaging, bass qualities/presence, and mids (vocals, thinness, graininess)? Like straight from a phone or laptap in general (you can neglect the different soundcards and whatnot). I have my suspicions about the 2nd gen H6's surpasssing the NADs in bass presence, since the H6s are more on-ear than fully around-ear. The NADs also have lush mids and are known for excellent closed-headphone soundstage, and I've heard some reports of the H6's getting tinny as your go up in frequencies.

Can anyone lend some thoughts?

I haven't heard the HP50 but I do have the H6 and it is often compared to the HP50. Firstly, the H6 feel over ear to me, the only part that doesn't fit inside the cup is the very bottom of my earlobe. The NAD's do have more bass, from what I've heard, more mid bass at least, they have a pretty warm signature. The H6 has a strong sub-bass. I wouldn't say the H6 sounds tinny at all, but a little thin in the upper midrange. The treble is very extended but very smooth and light as well. It sounds great! The HP50 treble is a little more laid back. The H6 is neither warm nor bright to me. Very neutral to my ears, maybe slightly cold due to a dip in the mid bass. And that's my only complaint honestly and it isn't too bad. The midrange on them still sounded better to me than the DT770 and M50x. It has a great soundstage with a good heap of air.

I was really excited about potentially buying the HP50 but then I heard a lot of complaints on it's comfort and then I saw the headband...it LOOKS uncomfortable to me, and I'm pretty picky about comfort.

 

[Green Caffeine]

The NAD's do have more bass, from what I've heard, more mid bass at least, they have a pretty warm signature. The H6 has a strong sub-bass. I wouldn't say the H6 sounds tinny at all, but a little thin in the upper midrange. The treble is very extended but very smooth and light as well. It sounds great! The HP50 treble is a little more laid back. The H6 is neither warm nor bright to me. Very neutral to my ears, maybe slightly cold due to a dip in the mid bass. And that's my only complaint honestly and it isn't too bad. The midrange on them still sounded better to me than the DT770 and M50x. It has a great soundstage with a good heap of air.

When you describe the H6 Gen 2, are you describing its sound when unamped? I've heard a lot of good about the H6 but my main concern is it's unamped sound for mobile & laptop work use. I already use the HP50s unamped (and luckily find them pretty comfortable as a full circumaural phone). I'm wondering if the H6 can still spar with the HP50 in terms of soundstage, imaging accuracy, and bass/mids/treble detail without an amp. Regarding treble, the unamped HP50 can retrieve still details, it's just like you said it's laid back.

The ear fit is a possible deal breaker but I guess if everyone says they are comfortable then they probably are (can't know until I try).

 

[bcaulf17]

When you describe the H6 Gen 2, are you describing its sound when unamped? I've heard a lot of good about the H6 but my main concern is it's unamped sound for mobile & laptop work use. I already use the HP50s unamped (and luckily find them pretty comfortable as a full circumaural phone). I'm wondering if the H6 can still spar with the HP50 in terms of soundstage, imaging accuracy, and bass/mids/treble detail without an amp. Regarding treble, the unamped HP50 can retrieve still details, it's just like you said it's laid back.

The ear fit is a possible deal breaker but I guess if everyone says they are comfortable then they probably are (can't know until I try).

I’m talking about the H6 unamped. From what I hear even Gen 2 scales pretty well. In fact I’m not sure if it’s just me but I do feel like they sound a little better through my MacBook than my phone (a little fuller/cleaner). I wouldn’t worry about the imaging and soundstage, it’s great on the H6, probably among its best attributes, and they’ve very detailed.

I was concerned about the fit of the H6 too, I was fortunate to be able to try the on at one of their stores. If you like the HP50 I wouldn’t worry as they’re both considered great headphones. The H6 will probably be a little brighter. I do understand headphone curiosity though!

 

[max232]

I haven't heard the HP50 but I do have the H6 and it is often compared to the HP50. Firstly, the H6 feel over ear to me, the only part that doesn't fit inside the cup is the very bottom of my earlobe. The NAD's do have more bass, from what I've heard, more mid bass at least, they have a pretty warm signature. The H6 has a strong sub-bass. I wouldn't say the H6 sounds tinny at all, but a little thin in the upper midrange. The treble is very extended but very smooth and light as well. It sounds great! The HP50 treble is a little more laid back. The H6 is neither warm nor bright to me. Very neutral to my ears, maybe slightly cold due to a dip in the mid bass. And that's my only complaint honestly and it isn't too bad. The midrange on them still sounded better to me than the DT770 and M50x. It has a great soundstage with a good heap of air.

I was really excited about potentially buying the HP50 but then I heard a lot of complaints on it's comfort and then I saw the headband...it LOOKS uncomfortable to me, and I'm pretty picky about comfort.

I just picked up the HP50 and find them extremely comfortable. I have a 7 3/8 hat size, normal (not Dumbo) ears and a lot of hair. They're super light and sound fantastic.