[Mhog55]

I'm excited for the release of the new AK4499EX.

 

[jayteeare]

These responses are awesome, and currently this is the main search result on the internet when you google AKM vs Sabre DAC. It will be read many many times for years to come, and I urge anyone with any opinion on this matter to share their thoughts with us, whether you are new to the hobby or a old school audiophile.

I'd like to hear people thoughts on the best AKM DAC ever made in DAP. How would you compare the Sp1000 to the Sp2000?

 

[Mhog55]

These responses are awesome, and currently this is the main search result on the internet when you google AKM vs Sabre DAC. It will be read many many times for years to come, and I urge anyone with any opinion on this matter to share their thoughts with us, whether you are new to the hobby or a old school audiophile.

I'd like to hear people thoughts on the best AKM DAC ever made in DAP. How would you compare the Sp1000 to the Sp2000?

For what it's worth, after I spent some solid time with my M6 Pro, I for once didn't have the craving to try something else. The tuning really fits my desires. Although I did recently purchase the Hiby RS6, essentially based on the architecture and design. I've heard enough ESS dac implementations to know AKM suits me better. On that note, the actual tuning and components used seem to play a larger role than the chips themselves.

 

[manueljenkin]

With inexpensive and fewer devices and equipment, so take it with a grain of salt. Not trying to open a can of worms, but, I personally, find that different DACs, whether or not if it's the chip itself or units they go in, tend to sound a specific way, and I can only use terms I can come up with mixed with "audiophile terms" to describe them.

AKM = well-rounded, can be overly smooth in parts of the midrange, almost like there's variable peaks and dips, and while being generally weightier sounding, it can go either way when it wants to, kind of airy, bassier, very dynamic in volume, imaging and staging, literally can go almost entirely mono-sounding, to huge and 3D in different tracks, track sections or sources, captures individual instrument tone very well almost to the point of being cheesy or wonky; instrument solos really bring that out.

ESS = harsher high frequencies, almost like the vocalists in tracks with a lot of commotion are piercing my ears (AKMs do this too but it's a different kind of harsh), more detailed or revealing of very delicate sounds, lesser bass, thinner-sounding, more metallic and gritty, can be more pacey, more percussive texture from not being as smooth as AKM, consistent imaging and staging whether narrow or big, vocals have more emotion, upfront, and feel more immersive or "exciting". Overall, I tend to enjoy ESS Sabre more upon first impression, because there's something more exciting and different about how it makes tracks sound.

AKM tends to sound its best with good direct source material, while ESS tends to be highly enjoyable in multiple sources; AKM can too but is picky. Then there's the variable where some units can sound like they want to be like the other, but not quite, there's still that sense of having their typical sound but with each chip and unit having their own overall sound but stick to the general premise of their brand signature. For instance, the ES100 is dryer and harsher than the HUD100 but still have a general similarity to their signature. AKMs to me sound more refined almost too much at times without lacking too much bass even when bright, and there's a variability with enjoyment, but they tend to not be so immersive or emotionally impressive as ESS Sabre chips, at least in terms of vocals, especially upon first impression, but non-vocal instruments are a different story. Keep in mind, all are very inexpensive devices, especially my headphones, so my judgement may not be justified, and it's not like I've had everything to test out because of budget.



AKM devices I've heard: PlayStation Model SCPH-1001 (1995), 5001, FiiO K3, EarStudio ES100, EarStudio HUD100, FiiO BTR3.

ESS devices I've heard: XtremPro X1, Sabaj Da3, SMSL X4 and Sabaj Da2, DragonFly Black, Monoprice Monolith USB DAC, Hifime Sabre 9018 USB DAC.



My general thought.


AKMs are more balanced, bassier, smoother almost to the point of losing texture, and captures the tone and notes of individual instruments so well that it sometimes sounds so hilariously cheesy and wonky, or off-key, it's hard to explain, but still more impressive over the ESS, maybe because of the slight sharpness in the highest part of the treble. AKMs like to exaggerate certain parts in a tracks, like it's excessively dynamic.

Dullest/boring sounding AKM: FiiO K3 and BTR3

Darkest sounding AKM: FiiO K3 bass-boosted

Brightest sounding AKM: EarStudio ES100



ESS Sabres sound more immersive with strong emotion in the vocals, are very detailed, "euphoric", and generally just enjoyable all-around with a lot of sources, but can be excessively harsh and unrefined in comparison, also sometimes lacking in bass, not as dynamic or flexible in how it produces sound, but this could be a good thing if you like a specific sound.


Dullest/boring sounding ESS: DragonFly Black

Darkest sounding ESS: Hifime Sabre 9018 USB DAC

Brightest sounding ESS: All, except Hifime Sabre 9018 USB DAC and Monoprice Monolith USB DAC





I really want to try more TI/Burr-Brown stuff, I know a lot of people like Wolfson and old iPods, but I cannot get myself to like them, older iPods never sounded great to me, they're so "conventional", soft and dull-sounding, like most other players; I remember my Sandisk Sansa Clip back in '09 sounded amazing.



I think I might look into the iFi Zen DAC next, I heard a lot of good things about it, but a portion of people have said some bad things about it.

If you have the chance, play around with the interpolation profiles (also called over-sampler settings in some cases). I really like the super slow profile (marketed as the more natural/life like profile by AKM) on AKM DACs, especially with music sampled at 88khz or higher (truly sampled at higher rate, not upsampled 44khz which can also disguise as higher sample rate file).

I cannot generalise ESS vs AKM though. I have tried 3 different ESS dacs and all 3 sound noticeably different, but the different AKM dacs I’ve tried did show similarities to each other.

 

[jayteeare]

I'm excited for the release of the new AK4499EX.

I am as well. But with AKM coming out with new flagship DAC’s about once a year, it’s clear they’ve graduated to higher marketing ambitions, as the customer base (or enough of the customer base I should say) are willing to buy up any equipment with the latest AKM DAC, but it goes back to that subjectivity if each iteration of the AKM DAC truly improves upon its last effort, or they just tweak it enough to it’s not identical to the prior one, just to have a reason to put more out.

Whatever the DAC was on the AK240 DAP was probably on of the best I’ve heard and that came out over half a decade ago.

 

[Mhog55]

I am as well. But with AKM coming out with new flagship DAC’s about once a year, it’s clear they’ve graduated to higher marketing ambitions, as the customer base (or enough of the customer base I should say) are willing to buy up any equipment with the latest AKM DAC, but it goes back to that subjectivity if each iteration of the AKM DAC truly improves upon its last effort, or they just tweak it enough to it’s not identical to the prior one, just to have a reason to put more out.

Whatever the DAC was on the AK240 DAP was probably on of the best I’ve heard and that came out over half a decade ago.

Cirrus Logic CS4398. Same chips in my Hiby R5 (original), and my old Opus#1s. It's also being used in one of the latest, popular dongles, but I can't recall which one. I've always been keen on how they perform and sound.

 

[jayteeare]

One thing I just thought of, which may or may not be more fuel to the whole "just because its the same DAC doesnt mean it will sound the same in all DAPs; what matters is how its configured internally". And you'll see examples, especially with FiiO and Astell and Kern showing these elaborate corridors and diagrams to the architecture of the device to not have crossfeeding or interference, and being engineered to the hight of modern electronics science, directly on their sales literature.

While modding my ipod 5th Generation Enhanced collection, which of course has the 'famed' Wolfson DAC in it, which many herald as the greatest sounding DAP ever made; I've modded dozens of these iPods and if any of you have seen the primitive and simple little green board and where the DAC sits on it, with the argument of internal specific placement and all the fancy tech the newer companies put into stuff, how do you reconcile that?

The ipod 5.5 enhanced is so basic with little to no inner advanced architecture to improve on the sound (at least not visibly) how is it that the company that bought Wolfson out (Cirrus) nearly 2 decades later isnt technologically light years ahead as far as sound quality innovation?

For example, taking a non 5.5 ipod classic and stacking it on a Fiio Andes AMP/DAC from 2012 (which has the exact same Wolfson chip) be any different than just having the 5.5 alone?

Makes me wonder why exactly there hasnt been anyone with experience in wave technology being able to explain why some DACs sound better than others, and how to make that distinction aside from subjective opinion, and if more importantly....

Is there some intangible quality to DACs that make them more appealing to certain audiences or others, but NOT because of the numbers and waves they display on a graph, but maybe something even deeper...what Im getting at is that even though those supposed levels human ears cant hear below or above of, maybe there is a correlation by some other immeasurable process that is occuring, that no one has really considered; for example, what if the frequency output of certain DACs resonate with us more than others by matching our biological/mental/unknown receiver within us by whatever ever other unknown byproduct the DAC is actually producing, aside from the stats and tech jargon.

I believe its the only thing that makes sense. For example, totally unrelated, but if anyone here has heard of Havana Syndrone or other government audible based weaponry, where if a certain frequency inaudible to the human ear still ends up having a deep affect on those exposed to it, like naseaua, hallucinations, panic, and a sense of well being? I wish there was more/any studies on this.

In closing, we're told by audio experts that arent nessesarily audiophiles that all DACS are the same and resolve 0's and 1's in music we can hear; and we all know there has not been 1 single example of someone being able to identify a DAC brands in double blind tests without any consistency or expertise. some cant pass FLAC vs MP3 files.

This is something I'd like to bring into this thread, and please share your thoughts. Sorry for any typos I just literally wrote this out non stop off the top of my head, whch is probably very obvious lol.

 

[Aevum]

i remember that people use to complain that Wolfson dacs were too dark and slightly colored, great for pop, rock, rap...

the Famed cowon D2, the first ipods (before they moved to lower end cirrus logic as a cost cutting mesure), ipods never sounded the same after that.

my expiriance of comparing AKM to ESS has been in the low to mid end, my old Echo Audiofire 2, the Fiio M3K vs the M3Pro the M3k having physical controls and a AKM chip while the pro having touch controls and a ESS chip, i liked the M3 Pro much better, made me feel like the AKM was cold and clinical, putting accuracy over enjoyment, while the ESS is smoother and most enjoyable and fun to listen to,

I guess my findings are the exact inverse to yours, so YMMV.

 

[Brain Damage]

i remember that people use to complain that Wolfson dacs were too dark and slightly colored, great for pop, rock, rap...

the Famed cowon D2, the first ipods (before they moved to lower end cirrus logic as a cost cutting mesure), ipods never sounded the same after that.

my expiriance of comparing AKM to ESS has been in the low to mid end, my old Echo Audiofire 2, the Fiio M3K vs the M3Pro the M3k having physical controls and a AKM chip while the pro having touch controls and a ESS chip, i liked the M3 Pro much better, made me feel like the AKM was cold and clinical, putting accuracy over enjoyment, while the ESS is smoother and most enjoyable and fun to listen to,

I guess my findings are the exact inverse to yours, so YMMV.

I'm starting to really like the R2R sound signature. The RU6 is addictive. Makes me wonder about a larger R2R DAC

 

[550591]

I'm starting to really like the R2R sound signature. The RU6 is addictive. Makes me wonder about a larger R2R DAC

My DACs and experince with them

- Smsl D300 with a ROHM (Japanese) DAC Chip.
- Cambridge CXN V2 with dual Wolfson dac
- hifiman ef400 with R2R dac
- Cambridge CXA 81 Ess DAC

After upsampling the same source material to the same sampling and in roon I have to say the difference is small.

Expect the ESS DAC.. that one measure's meh and is the cheapest one.

I really like the SMSL D300 and the CXN V2.
The R2R dac was alright but clearly not as clean as the other DACs but if I had nothing else I would be happy with it too.

I would love to try a AKM DAC when they are back in production but I quess once you even the playing field (upsampling, volume, source etc all the same) the difference is small.

 

[harry501501]

I've had the FIIO K5 PRO ESS for a week or so now and must say I'm really enjoying it and prefer it to the SMSL SANSKRIT 10th ii (AK4993). I still like the SMSL, but the FIIO is more open and airy sounding I feel. It has great synergy with IEMs that already have a decent soundstage. It's far from thin too. The SMSL is more buttery and smooth (tho not lackin in detail or in any way congested). I like the more immediate sounding FIIO. Both are equally as musical, tho the SMSL has the edge for vocals and far more forgiving of YouTube videos.

 

[Lonestar166]

Greetings. I believe this is my first post, though I have spent a fair amount of time lurking and reading. I wanted to say this is an excellent thread for me, very helpful. I'm feeling overwhelmed at the moment as I make choices about updating/upgrading my 10-year-old AVR setup. DAC choices are such a large part of my decision-making process. By no means do I classify me as an audiophile. I'm just a grumpy old man who likes good quality sound. Thank you everyone for your comments, they have been most informative. Cheers

 

[jayteeare]

I think since FiiO has implemented THX technology so much into their products, it’s worth adding that to the conversation. The FiiO Q5s has dual AKM DAC chips and I have used the THX module with it. I can’t reconcile why the Monolith Monoprice Portable DAC/AMP just blows anything out the water. The AKM DAC alone is amazing but paired with the THX technology is as good and end game as I’ve gotten.

I watched a older Zeos review where he basically denounced any other DAC/AMP in his collection, waving the Monolith Portable as the clear champion, above the Q5s saying they should all be part of the next yard sale since the Monolith Portable was just on a whole other level.

I’m glad and lucky I managed to get a Monolith portable for $150 off eBay right before they got discontinued.

Now they are selling as high as $500 (that being even $200 more than its debut retail price). It’s pretty much a modern day collectors item now, if u can manage to find one below $200 it’s a steal get it!

 

[Brain Damage]

I think since FiiO has implemented THX technology so much into their products, it’s worth adding that to the conversation. The FiiO Q5s has dual AKM DAC chips and I have used the THX module with it. I can’t reconcile why the Monolith Monoprice Portable DAC/AMP just blows anything out the water. The AKM DAC alone is amazing but paired with the THX technology is as good and end game as I’ve gotten.

I watched a older Zeos review where he basically denounced any other DAC/AMP in his collection, waving the Monolith Portable as the clear champion, above the Q5s saying they should all be part of the next yard sale since the Monolith Portable was just on a whole other level.

I’m glad and lucky I managed to get a Monolith portable for $150 off eBay right before they got discontinued.

Now they are selling as high as $500 (that being even $200 more than its debut retail price). It’s pretty much a modern day collectors item now, if u can manage to find one below $200 it’s a steal get it!

Interesting. I have viewed many Z reviews on YouTube - mainly headphones and desktop amps. How does the Monolith contend with the RU6? I appreciate their diversity in architecture (AKM v R2R); but I have to ask because the RU6 (for me) is end game as far as portable dac amps go. A few argue only 1 portable edges the RU6 and that's the Centrance Dacport HD; however, sadly, I cannot get my hands on one to verify.

 

[stuck limo]

The original Sansa Clip had such great audio, unfortunately, there was a flaw where the usb circuitry died after a short period of time.

Every single Sansa I had died. I had like 3 or 4 of them and within about 3-4 months each died.