[braillediver]

I found this interesting when discussing used records.

A note on worn records:

There’s nothing you can do when someone’s cheap turntable with a cheap/worn stylus and 18gm of tracking force has ploughed through the groove obliterating musical information. Chances are, though, the offending stylus was fairly blunt and a higher grade stylus on a better cartridge will reach deeper in the groove and contact an unplayed portion of the groovewall. I’ve bought Beatles records played every day of some teenager’s life that play with no distortion with a high grade stylus!


Mitch

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver I found this interesting when discussing used records. A note on worn records: There’s nothing you can do when someone’s cheap turntable with a cheap/worn stylus and 18gm of tracking force has ploughed through the groove obliterating musical information. Chances are, though, the offending stylus was fairly blunt and a higher grade stylus on a better cartridge will reach deeper in the groove and contact an unplayed portion of the groovewall. I’ve bought Beatles records played every day of some teenager’s life that play with no distortion with a high grade stylus! Mitch

spot on. You can also try the opposite approach which is used in remastering 78's but works sometimes for 70's and 80's records. Use a conical stylus which will play parts of the groove wall which are undamaged by the cheap AT eliptical stylus common then.

You might not get the last ounce of detail which you get from a fritz gieger contact line but you'll ride higher up the groove and right over all the damage to the lower sides and gunk collected at the bottom.

 

[ComfyCan]

Thanks to all for the suggestions re: good Zep issues on LP.

Hardware Update: I hooked an RCA>Mini cable to the tape-out on the receiver today and compared the sound of my Headroom MicroAmp and Xin Super Micro IV (w/ Grado GS1000's), vs. the headphone jack on the receiver. The MicroAmp seems to be the winner in the sound quality department. (I have previously found with digital sources that the Xin Super Micro IV has poor synergy with the GS1000's, so this was no surprise).

So, it looks like I'll just be using the Receiver for it's phonostage function, which was my original plan anyway.

Still, the headphone jack on the receiver is no slouch. The dedicated headphone amp just seems to smooth out the edges a bit.

 

[Black Stuart]

You can buy old vinyl that looks fantastic but when you play it - there's absolutely no detail and why - 'skimming'

Skimming is very simple - the con artists actually remove the top layer of vinyl. Those who run Record Fairs are always on the look out for these jokers because they can destroy the reputation in a moment.

I was at a car boot once when one of these theives turned up, he got thrown out and all his rip-off stock received Mexican Hat dance treatment and quite right too.

I hate to say it because it's something I've got to do - I've put it off for too long - buy a good record cleaning machine. Even if you buy new vinyl, it and your stylus will will last longer and s/hand vinyl can really shock you after it's been cleaned.

RCMs (the good ones) don't come cheap. One way to alleviate the financial pain is if you have friends who are also into vinyl, then the cost can be shared.

Stuart

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Stuart You can buy old vinyl that looks fantastic but when you play it - there's absolutely no detail and why - 'skimming' Skimming is very simple - the con artists actually remove the top layer of vinyl. Those who run Record Fairs are always on the look out for these jokers because they can destroy the reputation in a moment. I was at a car boot once when one of these theives turned up, he got thrown out and all his rip-off stock received Mexican Hat dance treatment and quite right too. I hate to say it because it's something I've got to do - I've put it off for too long - buy a good record cleaning machine. Even if you buy new vinyl, it and your stylus will will last longer and s/hand vinyl can really shock you after it's been cleaned. RCMs (the good ones) don't come cheap. One way to alleviate the financial pain is if you have friends who are also into vinyl, then the cost can be shared. Stuart

curious. How do they remove the top layer without it being obvious to the naked eye?

Record Cleaning Machines are excellent. I got a Nitty Gritty a few years ago and it's really good at making even quite knackered looking records listenable. It's interesting when you get 2nd hand records in different countries how much the climate affects them. I don't just mean warps but also the fine dust that you get in more desert climes.

Clearaudio also has a machine which fixes warps apparently.

The best value one in Europe at the moment is called the Okki Nokki. You should check it out. They are under 300 Euro.

 

[erikzen]

All this vinyl talk makes me want to get back into vinyl. About a year ago I gave it a shot, but honestly, I just don't have the time necessary to dedicate to vinyl listening, plus my listening room is also my home office and there just isn't the space at the moment. Maybe someday when I retire or at least when the kids finish college.

I couldn't agree more about Led Zep cds. The worst offenders seem to be the "remastered" box set. I bought this set back when it came out but in all that time, I didn't have a decent stereo to listen to it. When I finally got a headphone rig I could truly be happy with I threw one of these CDs on and was utterly underwhelmed. There is no detail, no soundstage, no dynamics. Who knows, maybe this is how it always sounded, but it's not the way I remember it back in the late 70s, early 80s, when I had my last decent vinyl rig with nice speakers that I could play really loud.

 

[Publius]

Eh. I have the full box set, and I've listened to II and IV on wax in the past (a few years ago), and the box set sounds fine to me. By "fine", though, I mean that there is obviously some tape distortion and noise going on, but that has nothing to do with the CD itself. Led Zep music production wasn't exactly at the pinnacle of audiophile mastery.

I would not go out of my way to buy LZ on vinyl for improved SQ. The box set is only $60 from yourmusic. That is the price of only two Classic Records releases!

 

[bigshot]

The first two Led Zeppelin albums definitely have more dynamics and midrange punch than the CD remasters.

See ya
Steve

 

[Publius]

Hmm. I have I and II at home; I'll need to needledrop them soon and check that out.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikzen I couldn't agree more about Led Zep cds. The worst offenders seem to be the "remastered" box set. I bought this set back when it came out but in all that time, I didn't have a decent stereo to listen to it. When I finally got a headphone rig I could truly be happy with I threw one of these CDs on and was utterly underwhelmed. There is no detail, no soundstage, no dynamics. Who knows, maybe this is how it always sounded, but it's not the way I remember it back in the late 70s, early 80s, when I had my last decent vinyl rig with nice speakers that I could play really loud.

It's funny that Zep is at the center of my re-entry and re-re-entry into vinyl. Flashback circa early 80's: all my albums were stolen just prior to the arrival of compact disc and I had no hesitation climbing aboard. fast-forward early 21st century: too curious about the chat about vinyl I get a budget Pro-Ject table, pretty good Dynavector cart, Classic Records 180 gram Led Zep III and I'm very impressed! This is due for the most part I think by the care taken in the mastering by Bernie Grundman. Some many months later in need of some cash, I in a cut throat mood, compare a number of CDs and LPs and decide I can live without that little extra fidelity and sell the analogue gear.

Amongst my many useful and useless endeavors over the next nine months is the hunt for the best sounding Led Zep CDs (I really dislike the remasters). I snag a beauty in an early 80's West German Polygram that sounds like a flat transfer. But that's the only high point as the search goes on and on and I begin to be haunted by the full Led Zep Classic Records catalogue sitting on the shelf mocking me from across the room! One day aimlessly browsing Audiogon, I see a pretty good Nottingham turntable unbid upon just about to go in an auction for $500 and back into vinyl I found myself. That was about two years ago.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius Led Zep music production wasn't exactly at the pinnacle of audiophile mastery.

Not sure I agree. They recorded a lot of their stuff in an old Victorian poor house so the reverbs on the drums are pretty natural from being done in a large room. Check out the drums especially on Physical Graffitti. They are really good.

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool Not sure I agree. They recorded a lot of their stuff in an old Victorian poor house so the reverbs on the drums are pretty natural from being done in a large room. Check out the drums especially on Physical Graffitti. They are really good.

That house would be Headley Grange (Come to think of it I'm Headley Grange on some forgotten forum). And I think it was the Rolling Stones' mobile recording unit in use there. Without doing the google thing I know Physical Graffitti is from a variety of locations and years. Quite a few songs are from earlier albums III, IV, and Houses of the Holy.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth That house would be Headley Grange (Come to think of it I'm Headley Grange on some forgotten forum). And I think it was the Rolling Stones' mobile recording unit in use there. Without doing the google thing I know Physical Graffitti is from a variety of locations and years. Quite a few songs are from earlier albums III, IV, and Houses of the Holy.

Kashmir is the particular track I'm thinking of and yes you are right the house is called Headley Grange and it's actually Georgian. They used the main hall or the refectory and so the reverb is natural. They recorded there a lot. Stairway to Heaven was also written there.

 

[ComfyCan]

Quick update:
I've had some fun and some luck finding old records I used to enjoy at good prices in used music stores.

However, I'm figuring out why everybody always says "get a record cleaning machine." The outside appearance of an lp can be very deceiving. Some of these things look great, but the needle digs goop out of the grooves--not good. All I have now is a record cleaning cloth and record cleaning spray, and that just doesn't cut it for old records.

More $ heading out the door. I gather that the "Nitty Gritty" manual cleaner is about as cheap as you can go and get a really functional cleaner. Any other suggestions welcome.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComfyCan I gather that the "Nitty Gritty" manual cleaner is about as cheap as you can go and get a really functional cleaner. Any other suggestions welcome.

I have the simpler of the motorised versions but any Nitty Gritty is very good indeed. A big step up from the more basic methods. Their service is very good too.

Also get a stylus cleaner as playing dirty old records really gunks up you needle. The simplest solution is very gently brushing from rear to front with a Mascarra brush and some isopropyl alcohol but be careful not to get the liquid inside the cart. Alcohol can dry out the rubber in the suspension and make it brittle.