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Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think this requires an immediate explanation, Fingerpick!
Totally agree. I've used 650s and other good phones with all kinds of equipment--integrateds, receivers, CD players and dedicated amps--and the differences are minimal at best. Indeed the 650s in particular, no doubt because of their high impedance, are quite impervious to amps and will sound quite marvellous with any well designed, low distortion amp; what all this "don't buy the 650 unless you're prepared to spend up big on an amp" business is I've never understood. I've even read newbies here saying, "I tried my 650 in my old NAD/Marantz/Rotel (insert as appropriate) amp and it sounded great. Can't wait to hear what it sounds like with a proper amp!" Eh? Why are the above not "proper" amps? The newbie duly buys his exorbitant dedicated amp and tells us all how much better it is, because he just knew it would be, but then a couple of weeks later decides to do an a/b comparison with his old integrated and realizes there's very little if any difference. That, however, he's too embarrassed to post.
I'm a little mystified about how an extension cable can modify the sound. Could you explain further?
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pp312: Glad you picked up on these musings. First the headphone while sleeping is really something people should try. The weird noises can be cars, dogs barking, cats fighting, or people noises. I have a very active mind that does not like to sleep. While a touring musician for many years, I used drugs (pot) to sleep but found upon waking though I thought I'd been asleep, it was only an illusion. Specifically I use the closed back dT770 to mitigate noise I have no control over, replacing that kind of noise with sounds I am used to. High quality Soundtracks from great films and tv shows I enjoy (Eureka, Psych, Tremors, Special Unit 2, Monk, Warehouse 13 and most good scifi even classics from the 50s and 60s that are dialogue rich and explosion sparse. Kinda like being read a story a Mom would do to get a kid to sleep but with the spatial ambience of life around the story.
Most pertinent of course is my lovely partner's snoring. We share a room but have separate beds as our schedules are quite different. She a beauty and we've been together for over 20 years. Awake she's a dream but once asleep I've heard quieter leaf blowers. The dt770s kill ambient sound well while still providing exeptional sound. Listening to both beautifully recorded music and well dialogued drama has an added advantage of providing sensory input that can result in quite fantastic dreaming, during which most of my creativivty is jump started anyway. Volume level is kept a bit lower than awake listening.
The spatiality of good tv soundtraks as well as certain films (again sans explosions which I edit out) is truly immersive as is great music of course. I listen to them (the open back senns) in the studio or other perfectly quite environs or when taking a nap alone with doors and windows tightly shut. The beyer dt770s cut outside noise such that they (in a pinch) can be used as shooter phones at a firing range. Even my wonderful leaf blower partner's seismic productions can't penetrate.
Now the extension cable thing. I have access because of my various businesses to practically every product out there dealing with sound. I've tried recabling the hd650s (Cardas and many others that are all outstanding products) and found them to alter the 650s silky presentation. I returned to the upgraded (newest) stock cable. In my studios I use high quality cabling (Monster/Interlink/Studiolink and such). While not cheap they are a fraction of the cost of the really out there cables that can cost $600 for a one meter cable, and after demoing the latter I found either no sonic difference or some coloration (perhaps more accurately enhancement of frequencies I find annoying to a good recording). Sometimes it is better not to hear everything.
The reason one uses good cable is to get a purer signal. Whether it is between interfaces or speakers/headphones the lower quality the cable one uses the less pure the signal, especially in the very low and very high frequencies. The wider midrange frequencies where most intruments live are less affected by cable quality. By using a lower end extension cable with the senns you get slightly less bass (which almost always inhabits the center of the sound spectrum). Consequently the bass while still beautifully reproduced, is less dominant in the mix allowing one to "hear" or focus on the outer edges of the mix. Depending on the density of the mix (the number of intruments or voices) a good recording/mastering engineer will place each intrument or voice in a slightly differnent location in the 180 degree stereo spectrum. The denser the mix the smaller the required space between each instrument. I tend not to like dense musical mixes but in any case, reducing the bass a bit allows the listener (me) to hear the periphery and local intrument ambience better. An off stage voice or sound or an instrument at the periphery of the mix may sound slightly less rich but can be heard much better at its true location.
I never found an extension cable to "improve" the sound over a direct plug in but paying nearly a grand for a "state of the art" 20' extension cable is only reasonable if signal loss is dramatic and distance from source is required. The DiMarzio I mentioned is 15' and you cannot tell the difference between the direct plug in and the extended sound. It is perfect as far as reproduction and therefore does not increase the space.
Extension cables do change impedance to varying degrees as well as more wire must be traversed which likely accounts for minor (I mean really minor) difference in a good extension cable and a moderately good one. Yes there are really cheap extenders (thin, poorly shielded wire) that will destroy even the best headphone sound but even the high end Radio shack (high end for Radio Shack's world) in 15' or 20 ' will allow the senns to work a little harder on the bass thus widening the perceived spectrum. These acceptable extensions have little effect on midrange and not much on high frequencies as well (I'm referring to frequencies high enough to be considered ambience rather than direct instrument sound). So with such a cable you loose little of the sweetness of the 650s and the outer edges of the mix become more apparent. Any loss in high freq ambience would be more detectable with phones like the dt880 but for some reason even that is balanced by the lower efficiency of the Beyers resulting in the same very wide soundstage they normally produce and not much loss in bottom end. Its all about personal taste as far as listening but I like wide soundstages, realistic ambience, and realistic bass. A question of Balance.
The only thing I might add is that one comment about having to spend $500 on a head amp (esepcially a balanced one) to match the 5001 or 5003 can jack is a bit conservative. Most headamps in that price range (partly because these are not high volume sales and manufacturing items and have less than impressive power supplies) will not have a low noise floor and will exhibit coloration. If you know how you might construct one for that in raw parts but even then the parts may not be easily obtained and the knowledge/experience to build one is as much art as science.
I have the greatest respect for advances in sound reproduction technology and many of those advances came from high end small volume builders. But I worry that the focus on high priced solutions may deter many from enjoying music like never before, with a good can like the Senn or Beyer (and other high impedance offerings) and a simple but good direct from cd player can jack. Take your phones with you when you shop for a cd player as well as your favorite cd. You will be surprised at how many will please. Too bad dvd and universal players have avoided headphone jacks. The sound potential is astounding. I will try to be much more concise in the future but some questions deserve comprehensive answers.
pp312 It appears you're from Australia, I am from Oregon but most of my studio mics are Aussie built Rodes. You guys know sound and value.
