my new HD650 sounded awful... but not anymore! (updated title)
Jul 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM Post #78 of 111
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif
...
First, matched source. Second, new cable. Third, matched amp.
...



please put the amp before the cables, it makes much more difference. maybe even more than the source.
 
Jul 30, 2009 at 8:46 PM Post #79 of 111
Are you sure you are still playing it at the same volume as you did in the beginning?

When you have an uncommon sound image, many people "instinctively" adjust the volume lower than on the set they are used to. And volume does a lot for bass and dynamics.. I've seen this "I didn't realize the volume was lower"-effect discussed in several threads on these forums.. and have experienced it a lot in my ventures into car audio.
 
Jul 30, 2009 at 9:05 PM Post #80 of 111
Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I wish they had more bass, right now they don't sound even close to bass heavy. also, the overall sound is very flat and the highs are the total opposite of smooth. It's like they need a serious EQing...

I know i am coming from a very colourful cans, but I can't believe that the senns higher model should sound like this.



Funny because I don't like mine for the opposite reason ! too much bass. Not that I don't like bass heavy can but on this particular one, bass clearly lack energy... it's like having a poor quality sub in a system... permanent oommphhh, not well articulated, no kick.
Too bad 'cause voice a pretty amazing on the HD650
 
Jul 30, 2009 at 10:12 PM Post #81 of 111
I found out that HD650 do get much better over time, I was underwhelmed when I got them but now I love them. It's curious because on the other hand HD600 change very little over time.

Also like you I was disapponted by the bass. It will get better but it has no punch and it takes some time to get used to. HD600 has less bass but it has at least some impact. I suppose open cans can't offer the pressure that closed cans can.
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 3:44 AM Post #82 of 111
Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif
did you try sticking them in your CD5001? they sound pretty fabulous together. and yes, do give it at least 300 hrs of burn-in. IME, they scale better with a better dac and need quite a lot of power to drive.


I reached this thread looking for some verifying opinions on the new HD800s. I come here as a visitor frequently just to see what is up. Yes I am a headphone freak and have or have used nearly every kind of can available. I even sleep with phones on to mitigate weird noises.

The above quote is one of the most sensible things I've seen written here relating to headphone enjoyment. The CD 5001 and its newer version (5003)drive my Beyer 880s (both iterations), the 650s, the Denons (all models 2000-7000), Akg701 &2 extremely sweetly. Of course the kind of music you are listening too is a vital component of the sound you may want. I like Knofpler's newer stuff and most other digitally recorded sources including some rather hokey Allisson Krauss (to much Jesus there for me but some of the songs are sonic masterpieces especiall 5 string bass and piano and knopflers guitar and voice is always to die for.

I have found NO analog to digital conversions worthy except for those that I master myself from well preserved vinyl recorded analog in on of my studio's Masterlinks. Mass mastering houses just don't seem to know how to get the sound right, especially if they are using original tapes which can require their opinion of where to set the faders for each part. I lose no warmth but I must admit that I borrow turntables and phon0 preamps as the cost of these items is stupid expensive today. I also use Grace 901 and 902s head amps and others on demo in my studio and they do not improve upon sound. They just make it louder. The 650s are fairly sensitive at 100+db, more so than the Beyers but even the Denons do well through the headphone jack of the 5001.

More to the point, the 650s (all of mine with 1000s or hours on them) are always satisfying. A couple of tips which will drive most here crazy. First the need for headphone amps is really overated. Many color sound and any good Sony or Marantz player with volume controls for the can jack will sound exceptional. So do plug your 650s into the cd 5001 and run them at listening volumes for several hundred hours. Again depending on the music and recording I think the pleasure will come.

Not sure what you mean by "electronic" music - some of which I can't stand. Subwoofer bass "impact" is not possible with phones but the 650s will reproduce the lowest frequencies quite well after break in. You can buy a good sub (we use Tannoys - $600) and sit it near your butt and get the impact if it is sub sound you are missing. The "veiled sound" rap that 650s get can be cost-effectively mitigated by using a good but not expensive extension chord. You lose some (very minor) bass and its the bass in these phones that makes the image appear more centered or narrow. Again run them a long time and over the months you will grow to love them (with the right music again).

If you are looking for a very wide soundstage in a closed back can with great defintion and powerful but balanced bass, the Beyer dt770 Pro is hard to beat at any price. The Beyer dt 880 (newest version) has more bass than its predecessor and is pretty good for an open back can basswise. The 770pro however has all the space and sweetness of the 880 and a thunderous but clean bass end. The mids with use come right into focus and the highs are pristine. Your talking about a $199 comfortable can that is likely the best bang for you buck ever. The only problem is (and probably the reason for the low price) is that they are not as consistent as higher priced models.

By that I mean of the 6 dt770Pros I use for recording and listening, Some have a bit more mid range bias (very sweet) while others seem to like the higher frequencies. All are great with the natural sound of the instruments represented but I do have 2 of the 6 that are my favs. And the bass while very strong, is articulate and always balances well in the mix.

The HD650 and cd5001 you have over time will likely change your mind about sound, your ears need to adjust to any new phone as they all sound a bit different. And burn in in no myth for large transducer designs. Forget the headphone amp and listen to some good vocal, acoustic guitar, piano, and synth (strings, keyboards) if you like that kind of music and you will be rewarded. If you mean by electronic what I think you might, then the dt770 will fill not only that bill but sound even better with the above mentioned mellower genres.

Again original digital recordings are almost a necessity. Computer sound cards (most) and mp3s have little place in the signal chain of great cans. While cables and amps and other add ons to headphones can make small differences, I've yet to hear any that were anywhere near worth the money. Even the incredible top of the line DiMarzio headphone extension cable (I use their Pickups both electric and acoustic guitar) which is one of the very finest is not a great improvement over the normal 650 sound directly from the 5001 can jack. In fact it is so accurate/efficient (the extension) that it sounds just like the direct plugged in sound. A less expensive 15'+ extension cable really will widen the soundstage of the 650 and remove some of the veil if that is what your goal is. In my opinion the so called veil is easil ignored after a few minutes and actually allows the music to flow to me rather than attack my senses. Very seductive for my kind of music.

All of the above comes from many years of buying selling and wasting dollar upon dollaron do-dads, add-ons and hype that only get in the way of pure music. Keep it simple as possible

I appreciate the enthusiasm here as too many people have never experienced the magic of good headphones. Every time I let a newbie listen to a pair they are awestruck and are hooked for life. However the incredible expense some here go to for very minor if any improvements I find disturbing. Balanced cables are usually simply two XLR cables instead of the normal combo 1/4". and require an amp that will handle both left and right channel outputs separately. More trouble than worth IMO and again the amp will likely color the sound. Maybe good maybe not depending on taste. Once again keep it simple. It is the music afterall that is the point and the goal and the less between you and a good recording, the better.

Spend the $199 at Sweetwater or B&H for a pair of the dt770pros (not the M version which is for drummers) before you throw any more money at your quest. You can always return them after a break in period. Just keep em clean. And finally (whew!) It is unwise to attempt to rush the break in period by running cans at high voulmes. Gives manufacturers fits when they hear people recommend turning them up so you can listen to them like speakers across the room. Lisening volume or slightly higher at max.
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 5:10 AM Post #83 of 111
ok...day 4 with the hd650. can someone please delete this thread..?
k701smile.gif
(or change the title...)

I was totally wrong and rushed with my opinion about the HD650...I didn't let my ears time to ajust to their neutrality (with a little more bass) , I wanted (like always) immediate satisfaction and didn't got it but i must say that right now i am pretty satisfied with them.

the bass is felt but not too much and i didn't have problem with their high to begin with and they became even more smooth.
sorry for all the trouble...but it is fun to talk anyway, well another hd650 thread i guess..
anyway, they are pretty good, and i understand what people say that the sound is a little "boring" but i love it, for me it's neutral and not boring at all and it's good to have a neutral can (relatively neutral anyway compairing to my two other cans). It's time to grow up, taste some relatively neutral sound.
it is interesting to see the effect that i will have when i will put the RS-1 again.

paired with the ultra micro stack the hd650 sound very good. I will later try the EF1 with the tung sol tube and see how it is.
thanks again.
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 5:30 AM Post #84 of 111
Quote:

Originally Posted by FirebottleRon /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If you hit the advanced button when you go to edit your first post then you can change the name of the thread.


thanks.. I learn here new things everyday!
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 5:49 AM Post #85 of 111
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingerpick /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I reached this thread looking for some verifying opinions on the new HD800s. I come here as a visitor frequently just to see what is up. Yes I am a headphone freak and have or have used nearly every kind of can available. I even sleep with phones on to mitigate weird noises.

The above quote is one of the most sensible things I've seen written here relating to headphone enjoyment. The CD 5001 and its newer version (5003)drive my Beyer 880s (both iterations), the 650s, the Denons (all models 2000-7000), Akg701 &2 extremely sweetly. Of course the kind of music you are listening too is a vital component of the sound you may want. I like Knofpler's newer stuff and most other digitally recorded sources including some rather hokey Allisson Krauss (to much Jesus there for me but some of the songs are sonic masterpieces especiall 5 string bass and piano and knopflers guitar and voice is always to die for.

I have found NO analog to digital conversions worthy except for those that I master myself from well preserved vinyl recorded analog in on of my studio's Masterlinks. Mass mastering houses just don't seem to know how to get the sound right, especially if they are using original tapes which can require their opinion of where to set the faders for each part. I lose no warmth but I must admit that I borrow turntables and phon0 preamps as the cost of these items is stupid expensive today. I also use Grace 901 and 902s head amps and others on demo in my studio and they do not improve upon sound. They just make it louder. The 650s are fairly sensitive at 100+db, more so than the Beyers but even the Denons do well through the headphone jack of the 5001.

More to the point, the 650s (all of mine with 1000s or hours on them) are always satisfying. A couple of tips which will drive most here crazy. First the need for headphone amps is really overated. Many color sound and any good Sony or Marantz player with volume controls for the can jack will sound exceptional. So do plug your 650s into the cd 5001 and run them at listening volumes for several hundred hours. Again depending on the music and recording I think the pleasure will come.

Not sure what you mean by "electronic" music - some of which I can't stand. Subwoofer bass "impact" is not possible with phones but the 650s will reproduce the lowest frequencies quite well after break in. You can buy a good sub (we use Tannoys - $600) and sit it near your butt and get the impact if it is sub sound you are missing. The "veiled sound" rap that 650s get can be cost-effectively mitigated by using a good but not expensive extension chord. You lose some (very minor) bass and its the bass in these phones that makes the image appear more centered or narrow. Again run them a long time and over the months you will grow to love them (with the right music again).

If you are looking for a very wide soundstage in a closed back can with great defintion and powerful but balanced bass, the Beyer dt770 Pro is hard to beat at any price. The Beyer dt 880 (newest version) has more bass than its predecessor and is pretty good for an open back can basswise. The 770pro however has all the space and sweetness of the 880 and a thunderous but clean bass end. The mids with use come right into focus and the highs are pristine. Your talking about a $199 comfortable can that is likely the best bang for you buck ever. The only problem is (and probably the reason for the low price) is that they are not as consistent as higher priced models.

By that I mean of the 6 dt770Pros I use for recording and listening, Some have a bit more mid range bias (very sweet) while others seem to like the higher frequencies. All are great with the natural sound of the instruments represented but I do have 2 of the 6 that are my favs. And the bass while very strong, is articulate and always balances well in the mix.

The HD650 and cd5001 you have over time will likely change your mind about sound, your ears need to adjust to any new phone as they all sound a bit different. And burn in in no myth for large transducer designs. Forget the headphone amp and listen to some good vocal, acoustic guitar, piano, and synth (strings, keyboards) if you like that kind of music and you will be rewarded. If you mean by electronic what I think you might, then the dt770 will fill not only that bill but sound even better with the above mentioned mellower genres.

Again original digital recordings are almost a necessity. Computer sound cards (most) and mp3s have little place in the signal chain of great cans. While cables and amps and other add ons to headphones can make small differences, I've yet to hear any that were anywhere near worth the money. Even the incredible top of the line DiMarzio headphone extension cable (I use their Pickups both electric and acoustic guitar) which is one of the very finest is not a great improvement over the normal 650 sound directly from the 5001 can jack. In fact it is so accurate/efficient (the extension) that it sounds just like the direct plugged in sound. A less expensive 15'+ extension cable really will widen the soundstage of the 650 and remove some of the veil if that is what your goal is. In my opinion the so called veil is easil ignored after a few minutes and actually allows the music to flow to me rather than attack my senses. Very seductive for my kind of music.

All of the above comes from many years of buying selling and wasting dollar upon dollaron do-dads, add-ons and hype that only get in the way of pure music. Keep it simple as possible

I appreciate the enthusiasm here as too many people have never experienced the magic of good headphones. Every time I let a newbie listen to a pair they are awestruck and are hooked for life. However the incredible expense some here go to for very minor if any improvements I find disturbing. Balanced cables are usually simply two XLR cables instead of the normal combo 1/4". and require an amp that will handle both left and right channel outputs separately. More trouble than worth IMO and again the amp will likely color the sound. Maybe good maybe not depending on taste. Once again keep it simple. It is the music afterall that is the point and the goal and the less between you and a good recording, the better.

Spend the $199 at Sweetwater or B&H for a pair of the dt770pros (not the M version which is for drummers) before you throw any more money at your quest. You can always return them after a break in period. Just keep em clean. And finally (whew!) It is unwise to attempt to rush the break in period by running cans at high voulmes. Gives manufacturers fits when they hear people recommend turning them up so you can listen to them like speakers across the room. Lisening volume or slightly higher at max.



thanks for your comment, i will probably try the hd650 with the marantz in the next few days, but i doubt that the sound will be better than my ultra micro stack (with the marantz as a transport).
I also noticed that the senns like a little more high volume than the others to show what they can do but i am trying to keep it reasenable.
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 6:40 AM Post #86 of 111
I already consider to go balance with them..don't have the money right now,but i am just checking my options.

looking for a relatively cheap balance solution,I found a 100$ balanced cable for the hd600/650 at headroom. but the balanced amps are pretty expensive, so can you guys recommend a not expensive but good balanced amp for them? 500-800$ price range maybe? is there such a thing?

EDIT: by the way, I seem very simple to attach the balanced cable myself, kist pull the current cable and plug the other one...right?
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 6:54 AM Post #88 of 111
Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I already consider to go balance with them..don't have the money right now,but i am just checking my options.

looking for a relatively cheap balance solution,I found a 100$ balanced cable for the hd600/650 at headroom. but the balanced amps are pretty expensive, so can you guys recommend a not expensive but good balanced amp for them? 500-800$ price range maybe? is there such a thing?

EDIT: by the way, I seem very simple to attach the balanced cable myself, kist pull the current cable and plug the other one...right?



You can pay someone to reterminate the stock cable, unless you want to swap the cable for another brand. Cost for reterminating is a fraction of the cost of a new cable.
 
Jul 31, 2009 at 8:01 AM Post #90 of 111
Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomikPi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You can pay someone to reterminate the stock cable, unless you want to swap the cable for another brand. Cost for reterminating is a fraction of the cost of a new cable.


I can get the headroom balanced cable for 100$ which is not much, it is a hd650 stock cable only balanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Good for you, cos frustrations are quite annoying. You see, not even a week in possession, but already want to go balanced etc...good luck with your search and watch your wallet
wink.gif



thanks blackmore, sorry for all the confusion in my earlier posts. I just too hurried and rush sometimes but afterwards i regret it. the hd650 are superb headphones and i will enjoy them for sure, and about going balance...it will take some time for saving money,unless i will find some relatively cheap balanced amping solution.
 

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