[Planar_head]

256mb of memory for windows isn't enough, even a striped down version.

You could look into something like this:
Intel BOXD945GCLF Atom processor Intel 945GC Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo

Which allows for 2 GB of memory, plenty for anything you may want.
It does come with a tradeoff, however, and that is a fan.
You probably could just take it off...

For your controls, you could use a mouse or invest in a touch screen

 

[nyc_paramedic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planar_head /img/forum/go_quote.gif 256mb of memory for windows isn't enough, even a striped down version. You could look into something like this: Intel BOXD945GCLF Atom processor Intel 945GC Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo Which allows for 2 GB of memory, plenty for anything you may want. It does come with a tradeoff, however, and that is a fan. You probably could just take it off... For your controls, you could use a mouse or invest in a touch screen

This board has been mentioned before, on other threads. I think it's a poor choice for a music server. Notice the fan on the motherboard? It's not for the Atom CPU, it's for the chipset. The chipset for the Atom CPU, currently the 945, consumes more power than the CPU itself.

On the board itself, you have to use a ATX power supply, or pay more money ($40?) for one of those pico PSU's. No board, yet, that can use a 18 watt 12v adapter like the Alix boards can.

I currently have an idea for offering Voyage Linux with MPD and a light weight web server as an image that can be written to compact flash whether your a Windows or Linux user. But there are certain technical things that have to happen with Voyage's framework before that can happen.

I envision putting together a Voyage Linux OS that is ready to go with MPD, ALSA, and a very light weight web server already pre configured. Something similar to Monowall (m0n0wall) where everything is configured via a simple web interface. So in essence: One buys the ALIX board, downloads the MPD Voyage Linux image, copies it (in Linux, Windows, MAC) to a CF card, installs it, boots up the ALIX, and logs into its web interface (much like logging into your wireless router), configures the music directories, and then listen to your tunes.

That is actually the intention of the Voyage developers. That is, someone has a specific embedded Linux need, and then tailors the OS and drivers for that application.

Sound like a good idea?

 

[Planar_head]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyc_paramedic /img/forum/go_quote.gif This board has been mentioned before, on other threads. I think it's a poor choice for a music server. Notice the fan on the motherboard? It's not for the Atom CPU, it's for the chipset. The chipset for the Atom CPU, currently the 945, consumes more power than the CPU itself. On the board itself, you have to use a ATX power supply, or pay more money ($40?) for one of those pico PSU's. No board, yet, that can use a 18 watt 12v adapter like the Alix boards can. I currently have an idea for offering Voyage Linux with MPD and a light weight web server as an image that can be written to compact flash whether your a Windows or Linux user. But there are certain technical things that have to happen with Voyage's framework before that can happen. I envision putting together a Voyage Linux OS that is ready to go with MPD, ALSA, and a very light weight web server already pre configured. Something similar to Monowall (m0n0wall) where everything is configured via a simple web interface. So in essence: One buys the ALIX board, downloads the MPD Voyage Linux image, copies it (in Linux, Windows, MAC) to a CF card, installs it, boots up the ALIX, and logs into its web interface (much like logging into your wireless router), configures the music directories, and then listen to your tunes. That is actually the intention of the Voyage developers. That is, someone has a specific embedded Linux need, and then tailors the OS and drivers for that application. Sound like a good idea?

Its a great idea, but its far more complex to put together. I think just building a standalone computer would be far more effective, and there are way to get a computer totally silent. Also, what about latency? Configure the music directories implies you're going into another computer/external hard drive to get your music, which, depending on where you get your music, almost eliminates the "power saving" you get from a low power board.

And if in the future you don't want the computer network, you can adapt that computer for something much more useful, like a mini workstation or simalar.. you know, you can give it as a gift without having to worry about whether it will run Windows.

And what about ASIO support? Most intergrated sound cards probably don't support ASIO, so if you want ASIO, you'd have to buy a sound card, which have certain system requirements that surely isn't met by a board such as the one you're suggesting.

To me, its seems that we both have much different ideas, and we're trying to offer sugestions based on what our ideas are -- and they conflict with each other.

 

[nyc_paramedic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Planar_head /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its a great idea, but its far more complex to put together. I think just building a standalone computer would be far more effective, and there are way to get a computer totally silent. Also, what about latency? Configure the music directories implies you're going into another computer/external hard drive to get your music, which, depending on where you get your music, almost eliminates the "power saving" you get from a low power board.

Building a standalone computer ends up costing more. And the more you work towards getting it "silent", the more money you are going to spend. I agree that setting up a small "regular" computer, as you said, is simpler to setup for most here, especially if you want to use Windows and Foobar.

Also, using an ALIX board (3 watts) with my Western Digital 750GB Green Drive (8 watts max, ~5 watts idle) , consmumes at max, say, 12 watts --and not a single fan (in the listening room) to speak of. I doubt you'll find a Windows PC, even an ATOM based motherbaord, that will come close to that.

Latencies on a Linux kernel are very configurable. But honestly I haven't had the time to play with different kernel settings.

Again, don't misconstrue my reply as an argument. I just think this setup, although very unique, does have some very outstanding advantages. I agree the Linux barrier is very high for some.

My desktop computer is usually on (work & school), and is a very efficient Athlon x2 machine to begin with; I just gave it the extra task of it being an NFS server., so no "extra" power being used in this case.

Quote:

And if in the future you don't want the computer network, you can adapt that computer for something much more useful, like a mini workstation or simalar.. you know, you can give it as a gift without having to worry about whether it will run Windows.

These boards have a multitude of uses, IF you know Linux. So now worries here.

Quote:

And what about ASIO support? Most intergrated sound cards probably don't support ASIO, so if you want ASIO, you'd have to buy a sound card, which have certain system requirements that surely isn't met by a board such as the one you're suggesting.

No need for ASIO under Linux and using ALSA. Another big plus in my book. And this board is strictly for USB audio, which is exactly all I need to feed my DAC. Maybe you misunderstood that I was putting together a audiophile quality USB audio solution only?

Quote:

To me, its seems that we both have much different ideas, and we're trying to offer sugestions based on what our ideas are -- and they conflict with each other.

We do. I have no problem with that. There's more than one way to get USB music to your dac. That's why I shared by starting this thread.

Plus, if I can get the Voyage OS pre-configured with MPD and ALSA with the Web server as a front for configuration, that will mostly eliminate the Linux barrier for most. It will be no more difficult setting it up than your standard home router.

If one has a big enough house, you could setup cheap ALIX boards all across the house with them accessing a small server (or your desktop) as music storage.

Cheers.

 

[1117]

Do you have pics of what the little beast looks like?

 

[nyc_paramedic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1117 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you have pics of what the little beast looks like?

[/IMG][/IMG]

The last photo is what the front of my server looks like with the optional front USB faceplate. System is very small and compact. Most importantly, dead silent. Also, my unit does not have the WiFi antennas as I am using a CAT5 wall jack that was already installed in the living room.

 

[1117]

I absolutely love the clean look of it.

That thing is awesome!

The only question left is how much you will sell it to me for...

On a serious note, since you seem to be more knowledgeable on this than I, is it possible to build something similar and attach a touchscreen to it? You know, have a little jukebox sort of thing in the living room...

 

[nyc_paramedic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1117 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I absolutely love the clean look of it. That thing is awesome! The only question left is how much you will sell it to me for... On a serious note, since you seem to be more knowledgeable on this than I, is it possible to build something similar and attach a touchscreen to it? You know, have a little jukebox sort of thing in the living room...

If you buy the specified parts I would be willing to set up the OS on the CF and install the necessary software for you. Say, a small fee plus shipping and handling? If you're serious...

I would not attach anything to the server. This thing is running the minimum amount of services -- not interrupting the USB stream-- and that is a good thing. I haven't had a single hiccup in the audio yet, and that's with updating the music database (which is done by the server) on a regular basis (as new CD's are being ripped) with over 9000 songs.

You could control it from any other device via WiFi, like I do with the Nokia 800. The Nokia is a touch screen device. Or the iPod touch: Makes No Sense At All » MPoD

You could also have multiple computers controlling it at once; I do the same.

 

[1117]

Hey, thanks for the offer! However, I am still undecided as to whether go this route or go the whole dedicated jukebox idea.

I have a main desktop, but unlike you, it isn't on all the time. It is mostly a gaming rig, really. Originally, my idea was to setup a really barebones pc to just have to turn on and listen to music in the living room. Something that looked discreet and not like a pc...

I am still trying to see which is the best way for me to do this...

If I decide to go the server route, be sure I will take you up on your offer and pay you for labor. I just don't know yet...

 

[nyc_paramedic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1117 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, thanks for the offer! However, I am still undecided as to whether go this route or go the whole dedicated jukebox idea. I have a main desktop, but unlike you, it isn't on all the time. It is mostly a gaming rig, really. Originally, my idea was to setup a really barebones pc to just have to turn on and listen to music in the living room. Something that looked discreet and not like a pc... I am still trying to see which is the best way for me to do this... If I decide to go the server route, be sure I will take you up on your offer and pay you for labor. I just don't know yet...

Or another idea is to use Free NAS software on any old cheap pc and stick it in the basement or closet. I used to use an old Dell GX110 that I found in the trash. It was a Pentium 3 700Mhz but only consumed 38 watts of power with the hard disk spinning. FreeNAS: FreeNAS: The Free NAS Server - Home

Or you could buy an inexpensive consumer grade NAS box: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCateg...rk-Storage-NAS

 

[siriri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyc_paramedic /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... After I set up Voyage Linux on a 512MB partition on a spare CF card, installed the kernel and ALSA debs, apt-getted the MPD and ALSA packages, and set up my bedroom desktop to export my music files via NFS, I was up and running. ...

Hi,

I found your posting by chance as I was searching for a similar setup. Your idea is really nice and I would love having this kind of music server-client for my listening room.

I'm not very fluent in Linux, although I have some basic knowledge. I can use apt-get / aptitude for example but still haven't grasped ssh.

I would be very happy to get some help for setting this device up and it would be helpful (also for others I think) if there was a little more detailed step-by-step HOW-TO for setting up your nice idea. Especially for the part which concerns the above quoted steps : setting up Voyage Linux on a CF-card, installing the needed packages, ...

As an exemple (not related to this topic), I found a very nice step-by-step HOW-TO which easily permitted me configuring filesharing between a Ubuntu Linux and a OSX machine :

HowTo: Make Ubuntu A Perfect Mac File Server And Time Machine Volume [Update6] › Blog › kremalicious.com » Matthias Kretschmann | Photography & Design

This is just an exemple to illustrate the level of details of each described step (and the low level of Linux knowledge I have). The graphical presentation is not important of course .

An other solution would be the one you suggested, i.e. being able to have a a one step installation with all the needed software already prepared for the CF-card.

Maybe posting your idea on some other audiophile site forums, could attract some more interested persons. One I know is Computer Audiophile | High-End Audiophile Music Servers especially because they didn't include any Linux solution until now (as far as I know). The editor tested a cheap audiophile setup based on Windows :

Audiophile Reference Music Server For A Song | Computer Audiophile

He might be interested in your solution, too.

In advance many thanks for your help.

 

[nyc_paramedic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by siriri /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, I found your posting by chance as I was searching for a similar setup. Your idea is really nice and I would love having this kind of music server-client for my listening room. I'm not very fluent in Linux, although I have some basic knowledge. I can use apt-get / aptitude for example but still haven't grasped ssh. I would be very happy to get some help for setting this device up and it would be helpful (also for others I think) if there was a little more detailed step-by-step HOW-TO for setting up your nice idea. Especially for the part which concerns the above quoted steps : setting up Voyage Linux on a CF-card, installing the needed packages, ...

Where do you suggest I post this HOWTO? Here? Audiocircle? A child board in Audiocirlce's Discless section? Is the Computer Audiophile a popular site?


Quote:

Originally Posted by siriri /img/forum/go_quote.gif An other solution would be the one you suggested, i.e. being able to have a a one step installation with all the needed software already prepared for the CF-card.

I've looked into it, and it's not going to be easy. I'm Linux savy, but I don't program. I would basically have to build a web interface from scratch that would be able to modify and turn on/off system services.

Quote:

Originally Posted by siriri /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe posting your idea on some other audiophile site forums, could attract some more interested persons. One I know is Computer Audiophile | High-End Audiophile Music Servers especially because they didn't include any Linux solution until now (as far as I know). The editor tested a cheap audiophile setup based on Windows : Audiophile Reference Music Server For A Song | Computer Audiophile He might be interested in your solution, too. In advance many thanks for your help.

I have posted on a couple of other sites as well and have recieved a few replies. But most people aren't comfortable with Linux on this level. Most people are fine with Ubuntu and the like, but are flustered when using something like SSH and editing a mpd.conf text file. But I do think this small piece of inexpensive hardware offers a very unique solution to the USB DAC equation.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[siriri]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyc_paramedic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where do you suggest I post this HOWTO? Here? Audiocircle? A child board in Audiocirlce's Discless section? Is the Computer Audiophile a popular site?

I think head-fi.org and audiocircle.com are popular sites, so posting it on their forums would be useful for sure. Computer Audiophile seems to be a young site and they are quite focussed on Apple stuff. But I still think it could be a good idea to talk to the editor of this site as he could maybe write an article about your setup (although in a later stage, when a detailed HOW-TO exists as I'm not sure if Computer Audiophile's editor knows anything about Linux) or posting in their forums (music servers section).

Here I would like to say that I am not the kind of audiophile that is willing to spend (too) many thousands of dollars (lets say, more than 3000$) for the listening equipment. I have a very good CD player and a good amp and the music I can hear trough these equipments is beautiful. In this sens, I am searching for a music server solution which could be at least as good as what I can have with my CD player.
I am convinced that your music server setup combined with a good USB DAC would be such a solution and maybe even much better.

So, there should be many people interested in this setup... but Linux might be the hurdle. That's why I think it could also be a good idea to post your setup in some Linux forums as there must be some "audiophile" people in the Linux world.


Quote:

I've looked into it, and it's not going to be easy. I'm Linux savy, but I don't program. I would basically have to build a web interface from scratch that would be able to modify and turn on/off system services.

This seems indeed complicated, I agree. Although it would be a very nice solution. Maybe a Linux / programming geek could help.


Quote:

I have posted on a couple of other sites as well and have recieved a few replies. But most people aren't comfortable with Linux on this level. Most people are fine with Ubuntu and the like, but are flustered when using something like SSH and editing a mpd.conf text file. But I do think this small piece of inexpensive hardware offers a very unique solution to the USB DAC equation. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

As I said, posting in Linux forums might be an idea.

For people who are not so confortable with Linux, my idea of a detailed HOW-TO could help. The document could be a PDF or maybe you could open a small blog about this subject.
Linux people being very helpful, there might be some Linux geeks who would be willing to help with this tutorial (or with the web-interface solution). As Ubuntu seems less frightening for most people, there could also be a tutorial for this distribution.

As I already mentionned, I am not a big Linux specialist (still learning every day), so I would probably not be very useful for this tutorial. But I would be more than willing to test a tutorial or to complete it with some details which could help people who don't have any Linux experience at all.

Anyway, thanks for your answer and your further suggestions.

 

[siriri]

I started playing with mpd and was able to configure everything. I have the mpd daemon and the music library on a Debian Linux machine and some mpd clients on the same computer but also some on a OSX machine. Everything works well.

So, now I would like to try to configure your setup solution.

Could you maybe post the content of your mpd.conf file for the daemon which is on the Alix computer ? This would help a lot configuring it.

I will order the Alix computer, but they don't have your model anymore. I guess the alix3d2 is completely compatible with the one you have.

update : I ordered the Alix board yesterday

I might need some help installing Voyage Linux and installing the needed packages. I will try to learn to use ssh and how to install a NFS server, but maybe I will need some help. So if you could guide me in certain phases of the setup it would be great.

update : I now know how to use ssh

I will post on this forum thread as soon as I have some news about my setup or if I need help.

In advance, thanks for your help.

P.S. : I might write myself a little tutorial based on my experience installing this music server and post it on a blog (of course with a reference to you as this setup is your idea)

 

[siriri]

As I wrote in my last post, I started a blog where I will explain how I install nyc_paramedic's setup. It's here :

Cheap silent USB Linux music server

Feel free to comment and any help is welcome of course