johnanderson
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2005
- Posts
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So searching for the best sound I seemed to have randomly acquired these cans
My impressions are limited so far as I've only been listening to the DT770 and HD650 for a couple of hours. However, within that time I can start to tell the differences between them and my other cans. Please forgive me if my terminology is not very clear. I'm still having trouble describing sound, but I do know the generalities of it. Here are my impressions so far:
Cans tested: All bought used and burned in at least 50hrs
1. Recabled SPC D2000 w/ cotton stuffed pads and cotton stuffed in between the cups
2. Stock Audio Technica AD700
3. Stock Beyerdynamics DT770 pro
4. Stock Sennheiser HD650
Setup: Chaintech AV710 Wolfson DAC -> Meier Head-Six -> Cans
Songs used: All at 192kbs CBR
Dir en grey - Machiavellism
SOUL'd OUT - COZMIC TRAVEL
L'Arc~en~Ciel - STAY AWAY
Muse - Hysteria
System Of A Down - KITT (I-E-A-I-A-I-O)
System Of A Down - Cigaro
Wolfmother - Woman
Avenged Sevenfold - Beast and the Harlot
Mendelssohn - Symphony No.4 in A 'Italian': Allegro vivace
[size=medium]HD650[/size]
Bass: More than the AD700's but not as controlled as the D2000 or DT770. It is less impactful than my D2000. I can't say I am used to it as it also doesn't seem as controlled. It reminds me of my D2000 before I stuffed the cups with cotton. Quantity is not as much as the DT770 or D2000. It seems small and uncontrolled.
Treble: Again this was a letdown because detail was not as good as I expected. One thing that it does well are mids. Vocals are not as recessed as my D2000. They also seem to lack highs but are good on the low end. For rock songs they do cymbals and guitars very well, much better than any of my other cans. My major gripe about them is that they can be boring. They are laid back but for some reason are fatiguing at the same time.
Soundstage: Yet another disappointment. The AD700 and D2000 does this better than the Senns. Spatial separation is lacking as well when compared to the other two cans. They are very good for classical. I can see the laid back nature of these cans here, however for classical I prefer to hear a more forward presentation like in my AD700's.
Comfort: More clamping force than my other cans but it's still very comfortable. Its probably going to get better the more I wear it. The pads are also very comfortable, better than the AT's and probably the same as the Beyers. No gripes here.
Build Quality: Very solid. They seem very fragile so I'm handling them with care. It seems like they're made more for home listening rather than for portability. Otherwise they are very well constructed.
Conclusion: I was very eager to hear these cans as I had a pair of Senns before and liked the sound sig of them. I have to say I was disappointed with these. It might be because my rig is not good enough to take full advantage of them but I was still assuming they would be overwhelmingly better than some of the other cans. I can also see why people say these are laid back. They are very balanced though; nothing is overwhelming. IMO they're lifeless. There's no WOW factor that brings my music to life. The best word to describe them is probably "Vanilla".
[size=medium]DT770 Pro[/size]
Bass: Very controlled. The most controlled out of all my cans. Not as impactful or fatiguing either. Laid back but at the same time providing punch and aggressiveness. Only the D2000 slightly beats it out in this category. If the D2000 weren't modded then the DT770 would have the best bass of all my cans.
Treble: Very detailed. Mids are very well represented here. Highs are not as offending as my other cans. It's a very warm sound. Vocals are a little overpowered by the bass but are still very good. On some songs highs seem rolled off but I don't think these cans were meant to be bright. Vocals are not as good as my other cans but they come very very close.
Soundstage: Not extensive and slightly worse than the HD650. I'm impressed that soundstage can sound so good on closed cans. Sometimes the bass and vocals can be overpowering to tell any spatial separation but I doubt Beyer built these cans for the soundstage
Comfort: Not as much clamping force as the HD650 but not as comfortable as the D2000 or AD700. Pads are very comfortable as well. Noise isolation is impressive. I can't hear my 150cfm computer fans when there is music playing.
Build Quality: Solid construction. These cans feel like they're built to be durable. They're only fragile where the cups are attached to the headband. It feels like the thin piece of plastic is not strong enough hold together if it is flexed too much.
Conclusion: I'm very impressed with these cans. IMO they are better for rock music than Grados or even my Denons. The best aspect about them is the thump they present in terms of bass. The bass is very tight and impactful, the perfect combination. It can sometimes be overwhelming but modding the cups with blue tak or cotton would probably tame it a bit. I think these are the perfect all rounder headphones in the $100-200 range and I can see why people get them Darthed
[size=medium]AD700[/size]
Bass: Present but not overwhelming. It's probably the worst compared to the other cans. People say these are lacking bass, and I can agree, but that doesn't mean they have no bass whatsoever. I have to say that it's not very controlled though. Seems to be all over the place sometimes. Then again I don't think people buy the AT's for the bass.
Treble: Highs are very present, which can be overpowering at times. Very bright cans, especially with my setup for some reason. Extremely detailed. Probably the best highs of all of them. Mids are forward but not very fatiguing. Seems to be lacking low end, but I didn't notice it much. I personally like the highs, especially since they don't fatigue.
Soundstage: Best soundstage among all 4 cans. Spatial separation is done very well and because of the forward mids and highs, instruments retain their presence. It's a very balanced soundstage where no one instrument overpowers the other.
Comfort: By far the most comfortable cans that fit on my head. They tend to slide down lower than I'd like but I think thats more of a design issue with the wings. The pads are very itchy and I don't know why. If it weren't for the pads then I think they would outclass anything I have, but because of them I tend to avoid wearing them for extended periods of time.
Build Quality: It seems very cheap, especially the plastic it's made out of. Sometimes when I rotate the cups the pivot squeaks. The most fragile part are probably the wings. TBH, cheaply constructed and not built as well as the others. Then again it's the cheapest can of the bunch.
Conclusion: The best cans for classical compared to the other three. Details are better than the other three, which is what makes classical so good on these. Amazingly these cans are very bright, but not very fatiguing. I can stand listening them for long periods of time, even with rock. If the bass was a bit better then they would be a very good all rounder. This doesn't take away the fact that they are still very good and IMO a very good value especially for the price.
[size=medium]D2000[/size]
Bass: Very controlled...once you stuff the cups. It's very out of controlled if not modded. IMO it is barely better than on the DT770 once modded. Theres no contest if it was unmodded, but then again who doesn't mod these once they get them
There's a noticeable thump just like the DT770's which bassheads will probably love.
Treble: They are brighter than before I recabled them. Mids are recessed, but proper amplification seems to make up for some of the discrepancies. Vocals are very upfront but still a little recessed. Highs never roll off, but that's probably because mines are recabled. Mines seem very bright after the recable so I might try solid core copper later down the road. They are very detailed, coming in just behind the AD700's.
Soundstage: Second only to the AD700, but thats a fair trade off since these are closed cans. Separation can sometimes be overpowered by the bass or vocals.
Comfort: Second most comfortable headphones behind my AD700's. No excessive clamping force, even with stuffed pads. Pleather feels very nice, but synthetic. Plastic feel isn't as nice as genuine leather.
Build Quality: People are complaining that for the price they paid these cans they should be built better. The only issue I've had so far with mines is the loose screw issue, and that was fixed with some epoxy. When I opened them up for the recable I could tell that Denon put some quality parts into these headphones. To me it just 'feels' expensive or of good quality. For example, the plastic cups are not cheap plastic . Most fragile point is the pivot point.
Conclusion: IMO these are an upgraded pair of Beyers with better detail and soundstage. They are very good all rounders. Best for rock and passable for classical. They can sometimes be overwhelming but it's more like a warm kind of overwhelming. They have the WOW factor in them and can make music very lively and enjoyable.
[size=medium]Conclusion[/size]
Each of these cans does something well in a certain area. TBH if someone found a way to blend the good qualities from all of them then I wouldn't ever need to buy another pair of headphones again. However if I had to rank them according to each quality, they would be:
Bass:
AD700<HD650<DT770=D2000
Treble:
Highs: HD650<DT770<D2000<AD700
Mids: HD650<D2000<DT770<AD700
Lows: No clue. I don't really notice them.
Soundstage:
HD650<DT770<D2000<AD700
Comfort:
AD700(Would be first if it weren't for the itchy pads)<HD650<DT770=D2000
Build Quality:
AD700<DT770<HD650<D2000
I don't want to rank them overall yet because my time with each one hasn't really given me a definitive idea which one is the best and worst. They all have good qualities and bad qualities. I'll probably listen for a week and post my impressions afterwards. Otherwise I'm glad that I bought all these cans since I can definitely tell a big difference between each of them. I hope my impressions help people in deciding which can is right for them but I would encourage everyone to try to listen to the most headphones they can in order to find the right sound for themselves. Besides, you might never know what you've missed if you only buy one pair of cans in your lifetime
Oh, and for all of you who read through my long review, here's your reward
[size=medium]Update 1/30/2008[/size]
HD650's and DT770's have been burning in for 48hrs straight now and I have noticed some subtle changes in the HD650 but not so much in the DT770. The sound from HD650 have become more full bodied and more upfront while the DT770 are now a bit better in the highs. I am very surprised at the Senn's as I was expecting them to smoothen out more compared to when I first got them but I guess the previous owner already did some burning in. They are still very upfront and a little overwhelming.
One more weird thing I noticed with the DT770 is that they sound great ampless out of the headphone out of my X5. Directly out of my DAC or even through my Head-six it sounds like they loose their warmness and fun factor.
I'm now getting different impressions going back to my D2000 and AD700. AD700 is still analytical, very detailed, and bright, but now they seem very non-engaging compared to the HD650 and DT770. As for my D2000, they have really begun to outshine my other cans. This may sound weird, but they are sounding very balanced compared to the other cans. It's as though they perform every aspect that each of the other cans do well even better. Bass is tight and controlled like the Beyers. Mids are engaging while not too upfront and offensive. Soundstage is smaller than the AT's or Senns but not by much. Highs sparkle just like the AD700's. I am really starting to see why these cans are not just FOTM and are really one of the best headphones around.
Cans tested: All bought used and burned in at least 50hrs
1. Recabled SPC D2000 w/ cotton stuffed pads and cotton stuffed in between the cups
2. Stock Audio Technica AD700
3. Stock Beyerdynamics DT770 pro
4. Stock Sennheiser HD650
Setup: Chaintech AV710 Wolfson DAC -> Meier Head-Six -> Cans
Songs used: All at 192kbs CBR
Dir en grey - Machiavellism
SOUL'd OUT - COZMIC TRAVEL
L'Arc~en~Ciel - STAY AWAY
Muse - Hysteria
System Of A Down - KITT (I-E-A-I-A-I-O)
System Of A Down - Cigaro
Wolfmother - Woman
Avenged Sevenfold - Beast and the Harlot
Mendelssohn - Symphony No.4 in A 'Italian': Allegro vivace
[size=medium]HD650[/size]
Bass: More than the AD700's but not as controlled as the D2000 or DT770. It is less impactful than my D2000. I can't say I am used to it as it also doesn't seem as controlled. It reminds me of my D2000 before I stuffed the cups with cotton. Quantity is not as much as the DT770 or D2000. It seems small and uncontrolled.
Treble: Again this was a letdown because detail was not as good as I expected. One thing that it does well are mids. Vocals are not as recessed as my D2000. They also seem to lack highs but are good on the low end. For rock songs they do cymbals and guitars very well, much better than any of my other cans. My major gripe about them is that they can be boring. They are laid back but for some reason are fatiguing at the same time.
Soundstage: Yet another disappointment. The AD700 and D2000 does this better than the Senns. Spatial separation is lacking as well when compared to the other two cans. They are very good for classical. I can see the laid back nature of these cans here, however for classical I prefer to hear a more forward presentation like in my AD700's.
Comfort: More clamping force than my other cans but it's still very comfortable. Its probably going to get better the more I wear it. The pads are also very comfortable, better than the AT's and probably the same as the Beyers. No gripes here.
Build Quality: Very solid. They seem very fragile so I'm handling them with care. It seems like they're made more for home listening rather than for portability. Otherwise they are very well constructed.
Conclusion: I was very eager to hear these cans as I had a pair of Senns before and liked the sound sig of them. I have to say I was disappointed with these. It might be because my rig is not good enough to take full advantage of them but I was still assuming they would be overwhelmingly better than some of the other cans. I can also see why people say these are laid back. They are very balanced though; nothing is overwhelming. IMO they're lifeless. There's no WOW factor that brings my music to life. The best word to describe them is probably "Vanilla".
[size=medium]DT770 Pro[/size]
Bass: Very controlled. The most controlled out of all my cans. Not as impactful or fatiguing either. Laid back but at the same time providing punch and aggressiveness. Only the D2000 slightly beats it out in this category. If the D2000 weren't modded then the DT770 would have the best bass of all my cans.
Treble: Very detailed. Mids are very well represented here. Highs are not as offending as my other cans. It's a very warm sound. Vocals are a little overpowered by the bass but are still very good. On some songs highs seem rolled off but I don't think these cans were meant to be bright. Vocals are not as good as my other cans but they come very very close.
Soundstage: Not extensive and slightly worse than the HD650. I'm impressed that soundstage can sound so good on closed cans. Sometimes the bass and vocals can be overpowering to tell any spatial separation but I doubt Beyer built these cans for the soundstage
Comfort: Not as much clamping force as the HD650 but not as comfortable as the D2000 or AD700. Pads are very comfortable as well. Noise isolation is impressive. I can't hear my 150cfm computer fans when there is music playing.
Build Quality: Solid construction. These cans feel like they're built to be durable. They're only fragile where the cups are attached to the headband. It feels like the thin piece of plastic is not strong enough hold together if it is flexed too much.
Conclusion: I'm very impressed with these cans. IMO they are better for rock music than Grados or even my Denons. The best aspect about them is the thump they present in terms of bass. The bass is very tight and impactful, the perfect combination. It can sometimes be overwhelming but modding the cups with blue tak or cotton would probably tame it a bit. I think these are the perfect all rounder headphones in the $100-200 range and I can see why people get them Darthed
[size=medium]AD700[/size]
Bass: Present but not overwhelming. It's probably the worst compared to the other cans. People say these are lacking bass, and I can agree, but that doesn't mean they have no bass whatsoever. I have to say that it's not very controlled though. Seems to be all over the place sometimes. Then again I don't think people buy the AT's for the bass.
Treble: Highs are very present, which can be overpowering at times. Very bright cans, especially with my setup for some reason. Extremely detailed. Probably the best highs of all of them. Mids are forward but not very fatiguing. Seems to be lacking low end, but I didn't notice it much. I personally like the highs, especially since they don't fatigue.
Soundstage: Best soundstage among all 4 cans. Spatial separation is done very well and because of the forward mids and highs, instruments retain their presence. It's a very balanced soundstage where no one instrument overpowers the other.
Comfort: By far the most comfortable cans that fit on my head. They tend to slide down lower than I'd like but I think thats more of a design issue with the wings. The pads are very itchy and I don't know why. If it weren't for the pads then I think they would outclass anything I have, but because of them I tend to avoid wearing them for extended periods of time.
Build Quality: It seems very cheap, especially the plastic it's made out of. Sometimes when I rotate the cups the pivot squeaks. The most fragile part are probably the wings. TBH, cheaply constructed and not built as well as the others. Then again it's the cheapest can of the bunch.
Conclusion: The best cans for classical compared to the other three. Details are better than the other three, which is what makes classical so good on these. Amazingly these cans are very bright, but not very fatiguing. I can stand listening them for long periods of time, even with rock. If the bass was a bit better then they would be a very good all rounder. This doesn't take away the fact that they are still very good and IMO a very good value especially for the price.
[size=medium]D2000[/size]
Bass: Very controlled...once you stuff the cups. It's very out of controlled if not modded. IMO it is barely better than on the DT770 once modded. Theres no contest if it was unmodded, but then again who doesn't mod these once they get them
Treble: They are brighter than before I recabled them. Mids are recessed, but proper amplification seems to make up for some of the discrepancies. Vocals are very upfront but still a little recessed. Highs never roll off, but that's probably because mines are recabled. Mines seem very bright after the recable so I might try solid core copper later down the road. They are very detailed, coming in just behind the AD700's.
Soundstage: Second only to the AD700, but thats a fair trade off since these are closed cans. Separation can sometimes be overpowered by the bass or vocals.
Comfort: Second most comfortable headphones behind my AD700's. No excessive clamping force, even with stuffed pads. Pleather feels very nice, but synthetic. Plastic feel isn't as nice as genuine leather.
Build Quality: People are complaining that for the price they paid these cans they should be built better. The only issue I've had so far with mines is the loose screw issue, and that was fixed with some epoxy. When I opened them up for the recable I could tell that Denon put some quality parts into these headphones. To me it just 'feels' expensive or of good quality. For example, the plastic cups are not cheap plastic . Most fragile point is the pivot point.
Conclusion: IMO these are an upgraded pair of Beyers with better detail and soundstage. They are very good all rounders. Best for rock and passable for classical. They can sometimes be overwhelming but it's more like a warm kind of overwhelming. They have the WOW factor in them and can make music very lively and enjoyable.
[size=medium]Conclusion[/size]
Each of these cans does something well in a certain area. TBH if someone found a way to blend the good qualities from all of them then I wouldn't ever need to buy another pair of headphones again. However if I had to rank them according to each quality, they would be:
Bass:
AD700<HD650<DT770=D2000
Treble:
Highs: HD650<DT770<D2000<AD700
Mids: HD650<D2000<DT770<AD700
Lows: No clue. I don't really notice them.
Soundstage:
HD650<DT770<D2000<AD700
Comfort:
AD700(Would be first if it weren't for the itchy pads)<HD650<DT770=D2000
Build Quality:
AD700<DT770<HD650<D2000
I don't want to rank them overall yet because my time with each one hasn't really given me a definitive idea which one is the best and worst. They all have good qualities and bad qualities. I'll probably listen for a week and post my impressions afterwards. Otherwise I'm glad that I bought all these cans since I can definitely tell a big difference between each of them. I hope my impressions help people in deciding which can is right for them but I would encourage everyone to try to listen to the most headphones they can in order to find the right sound for themselves. Besides, you might never know what you've missed if you only buy one pair of cans in your lifetime
Oh, and for all of you who read through my long review, here's your reward
[size=medium]Update 1/30/2008[/size]
HD650's and DT770's have been burning in for 48hrs straight now and I have noticed some subtle changes in the HD650 but not so much in the DT770. The sound from HD650 have become more full bodied and more upfront while the DT770 are now a bit better in the highs. I am very surprised at the Senn's as I was expecting them to smoothen out more compared to when I first got them but I guess the previous owner already did some burning in. They are still very upfront and a little overwhelming.
One more weird thing I noticed with the DT770 is that they sound great ampless out of the headphone out of my X5. Directly out of my DAC or even through my Head-six it sounds like they loose their warmness and fun factor.
I'm now getting different impressions going back to my D2000 and AD700. AD700 is still analytical, very detailed, and bright, but now they seem very non-engaging compared to the HD650 and DT770. As for my D2000, they have really begun to outshine my other cans. This may sound weird, but they are sounding very balanced compared to the other cans. It's as though they perform every aspect that each of the other cans do well even better. Bass is tight and controlled like the Beyers. Mids are engaging while not too upfront and offensive. Soundstage is smaller than the AT's or Senns but not by much. Highs sparkle just like the AD700's. I am really starting to see why these cans are not just FOTM and are really one of the best headphones around.
