Art: Coloration is deviation from the signal. If there were no coloration anywhere in reproduction of sound, there would be no deviation from the original sound - the recording would sound live in all aspects. I think a lack of coloration is a worthy goal and should be prized, but since this is impossible, we look for what the coloration is from, and how much, and how enjoyable it remains
Philodox: I stand by that every piece of gear offers its own colourations and that they are, in themselves, not a bad thing.
Art: Some colorations are a bad thing some aren't. No coloration would be a great thing - live sound from a good listening seat - but, of course, impossible. Even live sound has bad coloration from phase distortion from room reflections if your listening position is bad. Some such reflections give ambience (good coloration) while other phase distortions muddy the tone and sound terrible. An instrument in an open field has no such phase distortion, except from some slight sound reflected of off the grass, but is teribly lean and sterile as a result of lack of ambience.
Philodox: My approach is to look for synergy between components... and aside from a different way of saying this, I think this is the same thing you are looking for as well.
Art: Absolutely! Improve what you can by replacing problem links in the signal path, and what can't be resolved thereby then improve by matching links (components, cables, tubes, etc.) together to counteract problems or mask problems.
Art: The most neutral headphone is one that sounds very different with different CDs, amps, tubes with tubed amps, and sources. A less neutral headphone will mask these differences by imposing its own coloration on the signal - you can still hear the above differences but not as evidently, since these differences are reduced to the common denominator of the headphone coloration. In my recent experience with headphones owned, the SA5000 is more neutral than either the Grado HP-2, HD650 or the AKG340. It may sound sterile to someone who has grown accustomed to coloration from the headphones they now use - they are missing the warmth or euphonic musicality that their own headphones add to the signal. The Grado, to Grado owners, will sound less sterile than the SA5000 because of this.
Philodox: We are just going to have to agree to disagree here. I do not find the SA5000 to be a neutral headphone. The HP-2 is quite neutral, probably the most neutral headphone out there. As for the K340, it is hard to comment, as every pair I have heard sounds different. My personal pair is quite neutral, with the slight emphasis on the midrange that AKG is known for. I would agree that the HD650 is not a neutral headphone, much to dark to be considered as such in my experience.
Art: My HP-2 was quite enjoyable - colored the sound some, but in a very nice way. I find the SA5000 more revealing and less colored - enjoyable in a different way. I prefer the SA5000.
Philodox: I say again though, who cares if it is neutral? If you like the way it sounds that should be enough. I love the way my K340's sound and you obviously feel the same way about the SA5000. Others feel similarily about the HD650.
Art: Yes. Different tastes and different synergies.
Philodox: None of us are right and none of us are wrong... that is what bothers me about statements such as this: "when it actually has a very flat midrange frequency response, with no coloration emphasis"
Art: Have you seen the frequency response charts comparing the HD650 and SA5000 provided by Akwok on various threads? Good smooth midrange on both with no midrange emphasis.
Philodox: So, we all have poor hearing now because we don't agree with you? I'm sorry, maybe our definitions of colouration are different, but the SA5000 is quite bright and is lacking in the mids to my ears. This is not just in comparison to AKG headphones. I hear a noticable lack of mids with the SA5000... piano and guitar do not sound how they should sound. I have heard Tori Amos live multiple times and she did not sound realistic on the SA5000.
Art: The SA5000 sounds bright and lean with certain sources and SS amp combos. I have experienced this first hand. It has some spiking at 10K (in contrast to a serious dip at 10K for the HD650 - according to Akwok's charts) For older people like myself, whose hearing above 10KHz has diminished with age (and this starts in one's 20s), then this is less of a problem. Now, with my E5 and Bada PH12, the SA5000 has a sparkling and silky treble, full of sheen, with great midrange body and timbral richness. Now my son, with younfger ears, who has the same headphone system as mine, does not have any problems with brightness.
Keep in mind, your peceptions are based in recent auditory memory. You judge a new component by what you have now, and your evaluation is very biased in favor of what you have since this is the locus of the auditory memory basis of evaluation.
Philodox: I think you should also keep this in mind Art.
Art: I don't judge a component by listening to it at a meet. I want to listen to something different for hours, in separate listening sessions, over time, preferably in my home. When I make a tube change, my first impressions are based on the listening memory of the previous tubes, and biased thereby. I listen for days, and develop a new memory base for the new tubes, often finding that my first impressions had changed because I had developed a separate memory base for each set of tubes from which to draw valid conclusions. I think many people listen to the SA5000 and initially don't like them because they don't sound the same as their old headphones. They seize on the differences in sound as evidence for disliking the SA5000 - they are accustomed to the coloration of their old headphones and like it as the familar sound they have enjoyed. Now, this does not work the same in trying out a new woman.
