[jimmyjames8]

or any other tube amp for that matter. I came up in the age of the transistor. Due to increasing peer preasure and feelings of being totally (tube) inadequate, I bought a Woo Audio 3 headphone amp. Got it yesterday and have put a few hours on it with my Senn 650's. All I can say is WOW! I can hear what I have been missing. Now we are getting somewhere. Why does it sound so much better than a SS amp? I recently spent an afternoon with a $2000 custom made tube headphone amp and was blown away. The little, relatively inexpensive Woo hangs right in there with it, 90+% anyway. Fit and finish are excellent. Right out of the box, the sound is excellent. Some burn in hours will undoubtly make it sound even better. I could not be happier. I am already plotting a tube roll order. This hobby is really a sickness.

 

[tkam]

I wouldn't give up on SS amps just yet, tubes do have a certain lush/richness to them but try a SS amp a little higher up than your pimeta like an M3. Congrats on the Woo and happy tube rolling

 

[drarthurwells]

The Woo is an excellent choice in a headphone tube amp.

I also like the Ming Da (Mexing) MC66AE for even less money ($330 or so) - great tube sound.

The tube versus SS debate will never end since both have advantages lacking to the other. Tubes emphasize second order harmonics to give more body and richness to a tone, while SS emphasizes higher order harmonics - makes the tone or timbre leaner but gives better detail, transient impact, deper and better defined bass, etc.

I use two filters in considering an amp:

First filter: Class AB vs class A, opamps versus discrete circuitry, negative feedback in output versus no feedback used in the output stage, portable with skimpy power supply or home unit with better power supply.

I like an amp with an output tha features Class A, no opamps, and no negative feedback, and with the best power supply available (no portable).

Second filter: Tube versus solid state.

Do you want solid state detail, dynamics, great transient response, deep and well defined bass, and neutrality, at the cost of less body (leanness) to the tone?

Do you want tube lushness and liquidity, with rich timbre?

Tube amps typically lend some flabbiness or mushiness to deep bass, lacking in sharp definition of tone images, and lacking in transient attack impact. Solid state typically overcomes these problems, but all have some leanness in the tone - no solid state amp made can match the timbral richness of tubes.

I want both in one unit - the best characteristics of solid state and tubes in one. I get this at home using a SS CD player (with class A output and no opamps in the output), and a tube preamp for full rich body in timbre, and a SS amp for great SS characteristics.

I get this with my headphone system by using a hybrid - my headphone amp is like using a three tube pre-amp with a Class A MOSFET SS amp (three 6NS7 tubes, MOSFETS in the output, a huge power tranformer, and enough capacitance to use in a home amp with speakers).

I like one tube set up for accuracy and naturalness and another tube set up for a rich and lush tube sound. I must confess the sins of an audio purist though - there are times when I simply can't resist the seductivenes of my tube sound set up, even though there is some coloration of tone. However, you have to be careful in tube selection to avoid excessive richness, liquidity and lushness.

I also confess to liking the SS sound of my Lehmann that I sold - miss it at times.

Enjoy your Woo - great choice.

 

[Teerawit]

Hey doc, just to be square, you do know that MOSFETs color the sound, right?

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit Hey doc, just to be square, you do know that MOSFETs color the sound, right?

Art: A short piece of copper wire can color the sound - it is a question of how and how much.

Are you suggesting that tubed amps color the sound as much as MOSFET amps?

Are you suggesting that tubes do not color the sound, however much this enhances the sound?

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells Art: A short piece of copper wire can color the sound - it is a question of how and how much. Are you suggesting that tubed amps color the sound as much as MOSFET amps? Are you suggesting that tubes do not color the sound, however much this enhances the sound?

I am suggesting that MOSFETs color the sound much more than you insinuate they do...(I'd estimate a little less than opamps).

Some tubes don't "color" the sound either, if well-implemented.

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit I am suggesting that MOSFETs color the sound much more than you insinuate they do...(I'd estimate a little less than opamps). Some tubes don't "color" the sound either, if well-implemented.

What tube and what amp is not colored?

I agree with you that neither SS or tubes is uncolored.

MOSFETS are colored. Non-FET transistors are colored. Opamps are colored. Tubes are colored.

I said the main difference between SS and tube, in their coloration, is how they emphasize harmonics.

I said SS and tube amps sound different primarily based on this.

Happily they diverge in opposite directions on a single bipolar dimension (with second order harmonic emphasis on one pole and higher order harmonic emphasis on the other pole). This means a hybrid system, like using a tube preamp and a SS amp, can combine the two to reach a happy mean, yielding natural timbre in which harmonic overtones are properly emphasized in natural balance.

I have this in both my home and headphone system, and to me it is superior compared to all tube or all SS instead of a hybrid combination. However, I also can very much enjoy all tube or all SS, as I have done.

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells What tube and what amp is not colored?

One example: "The Raptor" headphone amp

Quote:

I said the main difference between SS and tube, in their coloration, is how they emphasize harmonics. I said SS and tube amps sound different primarily based on this.

Tell me why my SS MOSFET headphone amp sounds warm, smooth, and "tubey" no matter what opamp I throw in it.

 

[jimmyjames8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkam I wouldn't give up on SS amps just yet, tubes do have a certain lush/richness to them but try a SS amp a little higher up than your pimeta like an M3. Congrats on the Woo and happy tube rolling

Not given up, just taking a hiatus. But if I sold my Pimeta it would free us some $'s for a SS amp upgrade. Suggestions, M^3, Gilmore? It's got to have balls. The more I listen and thought about it, the conclusion I had was that the best I have heard get's it right across the entire frequency spectrum and doesn' have me wanting to turn up just the highs or just the lows or just the mids. And when I do add gain, it is full spectrum and effortless. The Woo 3 does seem to be way more effortless in it's drive of my Senn 650's, doesn't get confused or compress during loud complex passages.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit One example: "The Raptor" headphone amp

Not to start another flame war, but The Raptor is coloured. Its quite linear and dynamic, true, but it imparts its own flavour to the signal as well. Its just less apparent than with other amps.

 

[Jazper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit Tell me why my SS MOSFET headphone amp sounds warm, smooth, and "tubey" no matter what opamp I throw in it.

easy.. put the 8610s in it and couple it with the sa5000s and tell me then that it sounds warm, smooth and tubey

only words I'd apply with that combination would be cold, analytical, technical, extended highs.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazper easy.. put the 8610s in it and couple it with the sa5000s and tell me then that it sounds warm, smooth and tubey only words I'd apply with that combination would be cold, analytical, technical, extended highs.

My tube amps sound like the second description with the addition of the SA5000!!

 

[Jazper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover My tube amps sound like the second description with the addition of the SA5000!!

You can make the SA5ks sound fantastically NOT at all like that, an example is if you pair them with the M3 and the ad843 or opa637 opamps.

 

[iomusic]

Yes, the wooaudio 3 is gorgeous! It is unimaginable depend on its price, I love it very much!

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant Not to start another flame war, but The Raptor is coloured. Its quite linear and dynamic, true, but it imparts its own flavour to the signal as well. Its just less apparent than with other amps.

Hey, I'm not going to disagree with your opinion because

1) you've had extensive listens with it

2) you reinforce my discussion with drarthurwells that everything is colored, although some things less so

Jazper - thanks for the tip. I will try that sometime (I will have to reduce my PSU voltage though, lol

)