[BrokenEnglish]

i got my dt880 over a year ago... but as far as my memory tells me the truth, they didn't need much burn-in, to sound their best. so i'll leave the improper-burn-in part out.

but i have to disagree with dano1122 on his remarks of build quality. owning both the hd650 and the dt880, i clearly prefer the more solid construction of the dt880: less clamping force, softer earcushions, headband is click-free on the head (you get those clicks when you bend the headband manually!) with the dt880, but not with hd650 - with the plastic all over encasing and the oval shaped earpads of the hd650 i get slight clicks permanently, eg. when i chew something... disturbing.

while he wrote some lines on the quality of build and even the case, dano stayed reserved with comments on the sound:
Quote:

[...]the 650's had better detail, deeper sound, much better bass. the 880's have nothing on the 650's[...]

i'm missing the ususal beyer=brighter, senn=darker equations. this is a basic difference that jumps to your ears on first trial. it makes it indeed a little difficult, to compare those phones, because you'll need some time to adjust yourself to each one, when coming from the other. personally i'd say both phones are equally detailled with the hd650 maybe a slight... very slight tad more resolution in the mids. but when it comes to bass, i hear a slight midbass hump (stock-cable?) with the hd650, not with the dt880. maybe that leaded dano's perception of "better bass", while it is more bass, but with less structured separation in that particular frequency range in my rig. btw... this is one of the benefits of the dt880 that makes it my favourite phone: bass is not reaching to the deepest grounds, but bass quality stays top notch.
there are also no comments on the soundstage of each phone, so let me complement them: i hear a wider spatial extension of music (esp. with classical music) with the dt880, what - combined with the brighter presentation - forms an impressive airy presentation, given good recordings of course.
to hear the dt880 at their best, i recommend to pair them with a lively, highly dynamic, more upfront amplifier. but keep in mind, i'm not treble-shy...

overall i think, there's no need for hd650-owners to jump on the dt880 bandwagon and vice versa. i could say something like the senns are a bit more laid back, the beyers a bit more dynamic, airier or such things. but indeed the differences in sound are of minor importance given these two phones: there are more similarities. having both, you'll find yourself using one of them most times (in my case: dt880), because there's nothing that the other one does markedly better. if you want different flavoured cans as your second pair of phones, you should consider other phones.

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea The Beyers aren't known for any 'peculiar' naughties with the burn-in thing like some Sennheisers, mostly the 580/600/650, are. It is said that the DT880 'sounds great already out of the box, though it needs around 24 hours to start performing at its best'.

The Beyers are VERY bright out of the box... It has taken mine a month of pretty consistent use to settle down...

...Add into that that the DAC1 is a VERY bright sounding source / amp... then that combination - new, bright Beyers and bright source... ugh... no wonder it sounds not so good!!

Its all about the synergy (as the link in my sig agrees

) so in this case the Senns will sound better with the equipment used, rather than being exclusively better

 

[Andrea]

I concur in that it's nearly all about synergy with (quality) audio stuff. And clearly the 'human' part of it must be included in the generalisation.

Nonetheless there does exist an 'unofficial absolute scale' for grading the value of an audio device (in our case). If you manage to respect it, you won't go wrong in saying 'this headphone is great', 'this is a good/bad headphone', 'this is the best headphone'. I'd say that the folks of Headroom, for an example, have managed to pretty much identify this scale - thus their judgements seem as sober and balanced as it gets to me.
Naturally, anyone in the first place is entitled to be just as smart.

 

[Duncan]

That is very true Andrea

I just think that there needs to be some clarification with reviews (no offence meant to dano1122) as to how people perceive their sources / amps in terms of brightness, detail etc. If people didn't know that the DAC1 was bright (or to term it better to save getting flamed... 'clear' sounding), then this could give them an innacurate perception...

If you were to use the Senns with a really dark sounding source and amp, then they would get trounced by the 880s with their cleaner / more extended treble... so, its all swings and roundabouts... and, as ever with this site, it is very much a case of YMMV...

For the record dano1122... I agree that the 880s with a bright(er) source is a bit of a no-no, unless you're a treble / detail freak

 

[pietenkees]

i dont know how you can say that the build quality of the senns are better than those of the beyers. One of the reasons I choose the beyers over the senns was the build quality of the beyers. The beyers are a lot more robust

 

[acs236]

BrokenEnglish,

Your comments on the 650 and 880 allign closely with my own thoughts about them. Ultimately, we're talking about a bit of personal preference here. I preferred the slightly brighter (in comparison with the 650) presentation of the Beyers. But I think there were more similarities than differences between them. And the soundstage of the 880 was quite bigger to my ears.

 

[txa]

I have over 100 hours on my 880s now and the sound has improved - but only marginally. However, I am one of the listeners that thought they were outstanding right out of the box!

Aesthetics will always be personal - I much prefer the 650 here. I think it is a beautifully-crafted phone. Best-looking and feeling one out there. However, the Beyer quality is right with it, albeit in a more industrial flavor. And... the Beyer is a bit more comfortable. The most comfortable phone I've put on. (650, 595, 880, and 501s are those I have now had extended sessions with).

I have extended listening sessions with both phones. Both are very smooth, and neutral - though 880 is more neutral (esp. the bass), with a more expansive soundstage. I have not heard a phone this 3D, and this includes the 650. The highs are brighter - but this is relative. It is not in your face or aggressive IN THE LEAST. It is a subtle, up-lifting character that is still smooth, soft, and very intimate. 'Delicate' is another word I would use to describe the upper octaves.

I would expect that staunch 650 lovers will still listen to 650 most of the time, but would enjoy 880 sound - because it is still neutral and smooth. It really is a different flavor and some might want to own both phones. I would expect 595 listeners, who like the 650 but 595 more because of tonal balance, will REALLY appreciate the 880. It has tonal balance of 595, but sound is more refined and delicate with blacker background. Midrange is most neutral of all cans, so it may be described as not as intimate as 595 or 650, but nonetheless, very engaging, especially given the rest of the presentation.

My $.02.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 nakman, I think you owe it to yourself to try 880 at least once. They're a very special headphone

You really have no pity on my wallet, don't you ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike33 The build quality is excellent, its beautifully crafted. The aluminum case is a nice touch too. I think I'd pick 880 over 650 just for the box

First time I saw that alum box my heart went bam bam like subwoofer thumping. I knew I want one. Thank goodness it's safe and far away in saint.panda's house. =)

 

[3lusiv3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by txa Both are very smooth, and neutral - though 880 is more neutral (esp. the bass.

That means lacking in bass to me. I haven't heard either but I'm getting a bit tired of people making excuses for headphones that lack bass.

 

[BrokenEnglish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3lusiv3 That means lacking in bass to me. I haven't heard either but I'm getting a bit tired of people making excuses for headphones that lack bass.

there's not only black and white around...

 

[Andrea]

txa, thank you for your $.02

, but on a specific fact I disagree.
The 650 is hard to be bested for neutrality - since its response is already extremely flat and smooth and 'integrated'.

I deem the DT880 slightly bass lean and treble heavy, resulting in the electrostatic-like feeling of openness -- unfortunately I do without having yet managed to hear it, you know. Following on the speculative line, I think of the HD650 as having a "mature" balance, and the DT880 as having a "lively" balance. Perfectly Headroom-like.

Edit: I disagree a bit more strongly on your statement that the DT880 would have the most neutral ("natural", I prefer) midrange among the 650, 595, 880. I would bet it's the 650 to take this prize.

 

[acs236]

Andrea,

If you consider the 595 more neutral than the 650 (I think you've said this before, but if I'm wrong I apologize), I would think you might find the 880s bass more in balance with the rest of the spectrum than the 650. I thought the 595s were a tad lean in the bass compared to the 880s.

 

[E.B.M.Head]

I can't talk about the 880, but after 80 hours the soundstage of the 990 became huge, before that it was rather tiny. The harshness in the trebble disappeared a bit after a few hundred hours.
I think both the Senns and the Beyers need lots of burn in to reach it's full potential. If you compare them with one of them nearly right out of the box and other with some hundred hours on it, then this is no fair comparison.
Just my 1 Cent (I need the other for new cans

)

 

[Andrea]

acs236, I was tempted to believe so in fact, but I've eventually updated my convictions.

Actually I also happened to discover that I hadn't extended the headband of the 650 enough, thus the balance ended up being more 'laid back' than it was supposed to. When I extended it more to make them fit like showed on the Meier Audio site, things got to perfectly mirror the 'theory'. That is, it's the 650 to take the edge on the 595 even balance wise. The 595 has a tad too 'big' *sorry for the trivial term* midrange at the expense of both extremes. I also deem the 650 a bit brighter than the 595.

 

[JensL]

Always nice to see these two headphones compared, but unfortunately I think it could be quite misleading for some people.

Both phones do need much burn-in to sound their best, and both react very diffently to different amps and sources.

I compared the same phones here:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=83985

After this comparison, I've tried the DT880 with different amps and sources, and it was very interesting. In a bright and dry system, the DT880 definitely sounds boring and lifeless. In my system with a really good CD-player and a MAD Ear++ tube amp, it sounds fun and alive. Moreso than the HD650.

The world just isn't as black and white as you put it in your review. It would've been very nice, but it isn't like that.
To say that the DT880 can't touch the DT650 in any way, is misleading. No matter what system I've tried both of these in, I've always found more details in the DT880, all over the spectrum.
For most of MY music and in MY system, I prefer the DT880.

Both these phones are really really good, but some might prefer one and some might prefer the other.
As Duncan states, It's all about synergy.
People need to know this.

I think you should've taken a little more time with both phones, and gotten used to both the sound-signatures. I doubt you would've preferred the DT880 anyway, but the review would've been more fair, balanced and above all; More helpful.