[bln]

heh, i love how this turned into a conservative-bashing thread. we need more of them.

 

[plainsong]

bln, lighten up, please. Not everything at Head-fi needs to be a fight. Did you notice the big smilie faces on both sides of the political fence? It was all in good fun. Please, releax...

sigh...

 

[dmt1]

There is no question that there is going to be an element of bias in Lindrone's review, and I have mixed feelings about this. It reminds me of when he reviewed the Shure E3's--I had a suspicion that he'd rate them above the 4P's, which he did. To my ears (admittedly more used to Ety's than the E3's, although I did own the E2's), there is a marked advantage--to the 4P's. In fact, that particular discrepancy between Lindrone's perception and my own kept me from buying the Shure E5's (which in retrospect was lucky, as I'll go with either the U5c, UE10 Pro, or Sensaphonics). There may have been an element of bias in that review, or it may be differences in perception--doesn't really matter which--but the bottom line is I take any review with a grain of salt, even one by Lindrone, who probably puts the most thought and effort into his reviews, and articulates them very well.

On the other hand, he did spend a grand on the UE10 Pros--so am I going to read his review? You betcha. I'm ok with bias, real or perceived, as long as I'm aware of it--then I can make my own decision based on my perceptions, and I can kick myself if I was wrong, rather than being angry at Lindrone, or whomever reviews something. As far as I'm concerned, there is a potential for bias, but there still is potential for useful information from the review. There are things I worry about with the UE's (not a fan of detachable cables, for example, and I'm not sure that triple drivers are anything more than overkill for a DAP, which is how I'd be using them), and there are things that I don't care too much one way or the other (Hard vs. soft--well, at least in the instance of canalphones; in other scenarios the difference between the two can be quite important).

For the life of me, I can't understand why people get so worked up over this stuff, and why these threads get so personal--take them, and respect them for what they are--merely opinions, not life threatening or altering events.

 

[xand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmt1 There is no question that there is going to be an element of bias in Lindrone's review, and I have mixed feelings about this. It reminds me of when he reviewed the Shure E3's--I had a suspicion that he'd rate them above the 4P's, which he did.

Link this?

 

[evolushun]

does it really matter if someone is bias or not, as its obvious that people are going to be bias is some way or another, everyone does it, and any review will help people make up their made up in a product, everyone including me is biased on things, its life people, just deal with it.....

 

[Reader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by utdeep Given the high correlation between Sensa pushers, UE insiders, and the political climate in the middle east, I sense that Lindrone's review will give us great insight into the future of democracy in Iraq and the existence of weapons of mass destruction. I'm really looking forward to it and so is the 9/11 panel. Good luck with the review Lindrone! Don't worry about what everyone else thinks, and enjoy the music!

That's funny. Anyway I agree that Lindrone shouldn't worry about what other think and just write the review.

 

[dmt1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xand Link this?

http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74814

Here is the review, but I can't find the thread--there was a whole thread about this (including a discussion of bias--Lindrone got the E3's for free from Shure, which I still maintain is a source of bias, but it's not like he tried to hide it). I'm not trying to bash Lindrone here, Bangraman kind of supported his opinion, it's just that I strongly disagree with the E3/4P conclusion. To my tired ears, the E3's sound plain muddy--so much so that I was incredibly disappointed. The 4P's aren't perfect--the bass could be a bit more forward, although the level of detail of the bass is fantastic, and at high volumes, the Ety's can be too bright (If the bass was just a tad more prominent, the brightness wouldn't be an issue, as I tend to turn them up to get just a tiny bit more of bass--it's a matter of hitting the right volume), but I'd take the Ety's defects over the E3's any day. So that's where I'm coming from as a point of reference to Lindrone's review, and I keep the above in mind when I read his stuff. I'm not trying to discount what he has and will say, just rationalizing how it applies to me personally.

Unfortunately it appears all the relatively older threads are gone; at least I can't find them--the only search function that I can currently find is for the FAQ's.

I'd really love to see a UE5c versus Sensaphonic comparison--I personally think it makes sense to compare phones with the same technology--dual drivers--than triple drivers versus dual drivers, although it will still be interesting to see if the triple driver makes much of a difference. And after reading Lindrone's E5 review over again, where he emphasized the visceral bass was more prominent on the Shure E5's, which made them substantially better than the Ety's, and reading how the Sensaphonics have less visceral bass than the E5's, but the detail and highs are better, he now prefers the sensa's....It kind of reminds me that that's how I feel about the Ety's versus the Shures....Oh well....But by that line of reasoning, the UE5C's may be the best overall.

 

[tk_suki]

Well good debates and some less interesting commentaries(what happened to the thread crapping etiquette?).

I am looking forward to the review as well as interim comments. Anyone who goes through such an effort to share information should be commended. Personally think it is ok/preferred prelim comments for FREE reviews as longs as caveated as such.

Of course biased, everything in this world is subjective. Though we can try to minimize subjectivity and maximize objectivity. Stating the obvious but for those....

Go lindrone! You liked the CD3Ks which IMHO shows you have some taste comparable to mine.

I am holding off on one of these high-end IEM. Figure I should just flip a coin, doubt I will be unhappy either way.

Kind of like HD600/650 vs CD3Ks personal preference. IMHO neither is bad/better just different..

Have had my own shipping issues with FedEx on a Meridian vs none on U.S. post svc with Stealth and XR-2, has nothing to do with product performance, but good info for folks to minimize complications on delivery. Head-fi is a nice outlet for some of these frustrations but more importantly to educate each other.

Remember we all help each other out by perpetuating this market. Cooperate vs compete. Agree that we will disagree from time to time....

spinitch

 

[CodeGuy]

Normally, it isn't my style to get involved with these kinds of discussions, but in defence of Lindrone.... I took his advice regarding the E3's and I am very happy I did. I owned a pair of ER4's, and to tell the truth, they were TOO analytical for me. In addition, I -never- found them comfortable. Despite all the E3 bashing that has passed in the forums since the initial reviews, I still enjoy my decision to return my ER4 and stick with my E3. The E3 is simply more "fun" to listen to in my opinion. They also kick the snot out of Ety's in terms of comfort. If I want a set of phones I can bump around town in, get fun (and reasonably good) sound from, and not have to worry about breaking them, the E3 is it. I also purchased the E5. I love em. All this based on poor, evil, biased Lindrone's reviews.

Now to all you who are so worried about bias, and want to cast stones at Lindrone, please feel free to go plunk down $800 for a pair of Sensa's and $1000 for a pair of UE10's, and write us a review. I shall look forward to it. Lindrone contributes much to this forum both financially and in terms of time. I really think he deserves a little more respect. At least give the man a chance to write his review before condemning him as biased.

 

[HRA]

The best review of any IEM's is from the quantity of people that own them in relation to the other brands. The reason UE is getting such accolates recently is because the perception is that they build the best product. Headphone reviews are much like performance and movie reviews and the reason I won't write one, for which I've been taken to task on this forum. How many concerts and movies have you gone to that were wonderful or incredible only to have a "professional" reviewer bash the exact same performance you just witnessed? To think that a review on IEM's could be any different is lunacy.

I own several brands of IEM's including UE and Sensa. I've stated before I like UE's better in my professional opinion, which means nothing. I've been to UE's lab and know Jerry Harvey personally. They build a top quality product that currently has no equal and they do more R&D on IEM's than anyone else.

I like Lindrone very much and look forward to his review even if I feel it to be biased, which could potentially affect UE financially. If a product is superior to its competition it will continue to thrive regardless of one person's review or commentary.

Regardless of Lindrone's preference, and I suspect it will be his Sensa's, he is probably the most valued contributor to this forum and because of that I will continue to give him inside information when I see fit.

So, let the review begin....

 

[dmt1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeGuy Normally, it isn't my style to get involved with these kinds of discussions, but in defence of Lindrone.... I took his advice regarding the E3's and I am very happy I did. I owned a pair of ER4's, and to tell the truth, they were TOO analytical for me. In addition, I -never- found them comfortable. Despite all the E3 bashing that has passed in the forums since the initial reviews, I still enjoy my decision to return my ER4 and stick with my E3. The E3 is simply more "fun" to listen to in my opinion. They also kick the snot out of Ety's in terms of comfort. If I want a set of phones I can bump around town in, get fun (and reasonably good) sound from, and not have to worry about breaking them, the E3 is it. I also purchased the E5. I love em. All this based on poor, evil, biased Lindrone's reviews. Now to all you who are so worried about bias, and want to cast stones at Lindrone, please feel free to go plunk down $800 for a pair of Sensa's and $1000 for a pair of UE10's, and write us a review. I shall look forward to it. Lindrone contributes much to this forum both financially and in terms of time. I really think he deserves a little more respect. At least give the man a chance to write his review before condemning him as biased.

And there are also people who bought on Lindrone's review, and were less than happy...There are two sides to the coin. That's why no single person here is the final authority, which I do think gets clouded sometimes--it's the total sum of knowledge and opinions that are important, and while some opinions may carry more weight than others, no single opinion is "the word". That is, or was, the beauty of these forums. But for some reason, when an opinion is not shared, it gets personal, and illicits almost irrational responses. There is plenty of room to disagree AND still respect one another.

And if it's your perception that I'm casting stones at Lindrone, you're sadly mistaken--I do respect his opinion (although at times I think it comes off as a bit too authoritative), the time he puts in here, and the time and thought he puts into his reviews, although I don't always agree with them. And I agree that the fact that he was willing to spend the money on the UE's counts for something.

But this arguement has been beaten to death--all I'm interested in at this point is Lindrone's review.

 

[random person]

I just re-read this thread (why?!) and find I need to correct a misperception here before more people are mislead. While Ultimate Ears is the industry leader in terms of market share for professional musicians (75% vs all others combined) they are still a tiny, tiny company. They only have ten employees.(Actually, maybe they're down to nine if they fired that poor minimum wage shipping clerk that ruined lindrone's day!

)

I say this because to say that UE "reminds me of Microsoft" and to accuse a ten person company of predatory business practices -- well I suggest that any statements like that are just a BIT of a stretch. UE is a mom and pop company that is in classic scrappy early growth mode. They're certainly not Microsoft! So those of you who think smaller companies are good -- well maybe, maybe not, but certainly UE is still a small company. They just happen to have a big brand in their particular market niche.

Sorry for taking up space for this clarification -- I thought it might be important to some.

 

[kunwar]

Ok

I reckon the best solution here is this
Anyone who wants to spend that much money on canalphones should just try out all of them and keep the one that they find is the best.

Remember it is your money, not Lindrone's, not Welly Wu's and of course not mine.....unless you give it to me

I personally think that no canalphone will ever match any full sized headphone whatever might be the case.
Singers and Musicians have different agendas while listening and playing music.

this is obvious to me because early on I was into singing and have competed in several competitions back home in India.
Here is a very simple exercise.
close your ear with a finger and try singing any song you like. try doing this without closing your ear.
If you want to , do record it and play it back.
Notice the difference. Closing your ear actually provides you with a good idea of how to attenuate your voice.
With all the music playing around you, it is much harder to make that judgement no matter how good or talented you are at singing.
the in ear monitor'ssolve the problem by essentially doing 2 things, one providing the functionality of your finger and secondally allowing you to control what volume the music plays in your ear even though other people might be listening to it at a different volume.
That said everyone looks for different things in their music listening.
For me it is the fun that the headphone can convey. That is why I prefer the headphones I use. cos' they are fun to listen to.
forward, backward, it really doesn't matter, if you enjoy the music then you don't have any problems.

Lindrone, IMHO, has made accurate observations of the sound as output by the Etymotics and Shure phones. so far I have found that to be true.
If someone disagrees, so be it. He doesn't have to worry cos' he knows the truth. Those who haven't heard the Sensas don't, so they really have no leg to stand on.
Addressing the concern regarding customer service, I would be going nuts if I paid a $1000 dollars and my shipment got screwed up. Money doesn't grow on trees and if someone wants to get you to spend YOUR hard earned money, they better have top class service. Crappy service gurantees dissatisfied customers. the more the problems with the transaction, the more pissed off the customer.

So grow up people. Don't tell me you wouldn't be angry and going mad if it was your order that got bungled.

 

[ampgalore]

$1000 is a lot of money to be so easily lost in shipment.

 

[CodeGuy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmt1 And if it's your perception that I'm casting stones at Lindrone, you're sadly mistaken--I do respect his opinion (although at times I think it comes off as a bit too authoritative), the time he puts in here, and the time and thought he puts into his reviews, although I don't always agree with them. And I agree that the fact that he was willing to spend the money on the UE's counts for something. But this arguement has been beaten to death--all I'm interested in at this point is Lindrone's review.

Dmt1,
I wasn't singling you out in my comments. They were directed more at the general tone that this thread seems to have taken. It just seemed to me that a lot of folks were kind of jumping the gun, and for some odd reason, I felt compelled to put my $0.02 in

I look forward to Lindrone's review as well.