[gorman]

I really hate to do this but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone Hmm... lots of speculation about what I'm going to say already, no?...

One has to wonder why. Quote:

Sensaphonic's business model is very different compared to UE's.. thus the dramatic difference in customer service. Sensa basically don't respond to emails... they're not very web-savvy. You basically have to call them. You can't really blame a company for not being web-savvy, that's just never been their audience anyway. Unlike UE, who's clearly trying to sell into some high-end consumer space.

As far as I know UE is still selling to the majority of artists on the market. The fact they are targetting now audiophiles and the high-end comsumer is only testament of them being business-savy. That's all. It doesn't imply anything else in and by itself.

On to the web-savy thing. Yes, today you can blame *any* company for not being internet-savy. Unless it operates in Third World countries (and with this I'm not issuing a judgement on those countries, I believe it's a realy shame that the Internet is not more accessable to poorer countries). Quote:

UE, on the other hand, wants to cut out the audiologist from the process as much as possible. They only need them to make impressions, if they have a way of taking impressions without a well-trained audiologist, they would screw that entire community over completely. Their contact with specific audiologist are very little, and they instruct the audiologist to just take impressions. My audiologist used to work with UE, and they cut her out after they found out she was telling the customer more than they wanted her to. They don't want anyone to get in the way of their potential sale.

How that goes on hand with the trouble Jerry Harvey went through, just to let me know the exact SPLs of my UE-10 coupled with my Rio Karma is beyond me. I would say they are pretty keen on informing their customers, in the more detailed way possible, about the risks of hearing damage. Does this page reside on Sensaphonics' website? Quote:

UE is a very customer-friendly company, but does a lot of very under-handed things in the industry in general.

These are very strong accusations. Accusations I'm not prone to believe until I see hard facts.

I'm sorry, but at this point I have lost interest in your listening impressions. This is going to be a biased review, no matter what you will say to the contrary. Luckily you have been fair enough to say it loud and clear before writing it.
As I said, I really hated writing this post.

 

[KPOT]

lindrone, if you want to tell us your listening experience, then do it. From your previous posts i can draw conclusion that your problems with delivery can mysteriously affect phones sound. It is very interesting...

 

[wolfen68]

To build on Welly's comments, all reviewers have bias. The trick is not letting the bias bleed over into your final review.

Lindrone has two issues of contention he will need to overcome:

1. He has expressed negative opinions on other facets of UE's operation. These give the impression (true or not) that he holds a bias.

2. If the products are comparable but different, there's no way he can provide truly informative feedback until he's had the UE's longer and given them equal time. Lindrone is used to the Sensa sound, and it may take a period of time to acclimate to the UE counterpart. When I first heard Grado 60's, I could of swore they sucked compared to Portapros. Once acclimated to the different Grado sound signature, I realized there was more to the story.

Something we all need to remember is that Lindrone is doing this of his own accord. We are not paying for this service. This is an enthusiast's forum. He can write whatever he wants and it may be informative. I have a lot of respect for Lindrone for some great information I've gotten from him in the past.

However, if the resulting review is not helpful....this is an enthusiast's forum...and he will surely hear the appropriate feedback

 

[acs236]

Let's not forget that this is an online forum and not a professional magazine. If anyone wants to give me their impressions of a product at any time during their use of it, I am happy to read and talk about them.

 

[lindrone]

This is taken directly from Sensaphonic's "FAQ" page:

Quote:

How safe are these? There is an industry misconception that in-ear monitors, like earplugs, are hearing protectors by design. Unlike earplugs, in-ear monitors are capable of damaging hearing as easily as a floor monitor. They can be used as a tool for hearing preservation if used properly. The question is: how loud can my in-ear monitors get and how long can I wear them before my hearing is at risk? Some in-ear monitors can reach levels of 125dB to 140dB! No one is going to protect hearing at those levels, even for short exposure periods. To properly use in-ear monitors as hearing protection tools, one must refer to the damage-risk criteria from OSHA to determine allowable exposure times for safe use. The longer the show (exposure time), the lower the volume (dB output of the in-ear monitor) must be. This is less of a problem for national touring acts whose shows are less than one or two hours. For club bands whose shows are three to four hours, levels much be lower and should average no more than 95 to 97dB-A. The problem is how to determine the dB levels (A-weighted) coming from the in-ear monitors. Currently, the only method to measure these levels is with an in-ear probe microphone technology used during rehearsals or sound checks by an audiologist. From these readings, you can be directed to a recommended volume level for the length of your show. Other methods are not acceptable. For instance, it has been suggested that the absence of tinnitus following use be used as a measuring tool for safe use (i.e., "My ears don't ring so it must be safe"); however, research has indicated that of those who have lost hearing from noise exposure, only 30% experienced "ringing." In other words, if your ears ring after a performance, you're too loud. If your ears don't ring, there's a 70% chance that you may still be damaging your ears if levels exceed OSHA safe limits.

Just like how un-web-savvy Sensa is in comparison, their website is rather slim and isn't as well designed as UE's website. The information are there, just not as apparent. In perspective, their website is the 2nd best next to all the other companies out there. Future Sound and Westone's website is even worse designed.

As for other issues, sensitive information.. so you'll be getting a PM

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone Just like how un-web-savvy Sensa is in comparison, their website is rather slim and isn't as well designed as UE's website. The information are there, just not as apparent. In perspective, their website is the 2nd best next to all the other companies out there. Future Sound and Westone's website is even worse designed.

Lindrone, I never said Sensaphonics did not care for their customers hearing. I was just showing that it's rather clear that UE does too. At least judging from the info on the website. I will re-state, loud and clear: I firmly believe both Sensaphonics and Ultimate Ears products are exceptional products.
But the image you are conveying of UE is so conflicting with my experience with UE that I would have been far more inclined to accept a strongly negative judgement on sound quality, rather than this company trashing. I'll read your PM.

 

[Orpheus]

i've posted about these things before, but once again, i mention that these ear phones got bad reviews from a pro audio magazine--i think Mix, but not sure. they prefer other, cheaper alternatives more.

i usually trust the reviews they give in Mix cause they're much more no-nonsense compared to audiophile mags like Stereophile. no bullcrap. no stupid side-stories about politics and stupid remarks that should be restrained to a personal diary. straight-up as the author hears it.

in that article 3 models were reviewed, and sorry, i forgot which ones. but the triple-driver one (the UE) got the worst review, and also cost the most. i think the comments mostly said that the UE was made for drummers and showed that.

anyway, i posted this before. before you spend $1000 on non-resellable products, it would be well worth your time to find the article in Mix that i read. it'll save you big bucks--unless of course you're rich and use bills as butt-wipe.

 

[KPOT]

Guys, can somebody tell me how sound quality can depend on the customer service of company?

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KPOT Guys, can somebody tell me how sound quality can depend on the customer service of company?

It doesn't

Which is why my review won't be biased disregarding what I think of the company.

 

[lindrone]

Just to add another example...

Sony's customer service is horrid, the company are ran by tyrannical idiots... whenever something new comes around the corner they want to proprietize it and conquer the world. They're always coming up with their proprietary standards and not cooperating with the industry.

I love the Sony CD3000.... it's still the best full-size headphone for my particular taste even now.

I just dread the day, if ever, one of the driver goes out.

Even despite of that, it had no influence on my purchase decision whatsoever.. LOL.

 

[toaster]

wow guys, let's look at what's been going on here...

First of all, Lindrone is one of the only people who has actually heard both the 2-X's and the UE-10's. For this reason alone, even his "speculation" on comparing the two products is worth more than anyone else's here.

Secondly, i do not believe Lindrone has sad anything that can even be thought of as speculaiton. OK, i admit i felt he seemed a tad biased against the soft material option of the UE vs. the soft material option of the sensaphonic before he bought the UE. Even in that situation, he still had a basis: Sensaphonics material was silicone, while UE's is just a softer acryllic. Anyone who has had any experience with both of these materials, and i am sure most of us have, would be able to make a logical guess about what they would prefer. (Of course personal opinion should always receive acceptance in life, but on head-fi it seems to be under attack. In this area, even personal speculation should be allowed, it is nothing more than someone else's opinion. if you don't believe it has enough logic behind it for you to choose to believe, then do not believe it.)

Even despite this potential initial imperfection in Lindrone's thoughts and feelings towards the UE-10's, he has since spent 1000 dollars, received and used the product. HE HAS THE UE-10's AND THE 2-X'S. Can i say that? No. Can you say that? NO.

At this point, i am pretty surprised at a bunch of people for accusing lindrone of being illogical or unfair. Any rational person would realize that all Lindrone is even capable of doing at this point, is REPORTING HIS OBSERVATIONS about the two products. That's it. He had a crapty experience with UE. OK. He even said, maybe you will not. He had a perfect experience with Sensa. OK. Maybe you won't.

The only thing we ever know in life for sure, is what we have experienced ourselves. Right now, i know of nobody else who i can turn to for first-hand information about both the UE-10 and the 2-XS. Before i plunk down my 1000 dollars, i will be damn sure to check lindrone's review, and take from it what i choose.

 

[random person]

Ahhh, where is HRA now that we need him?

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist!)

I think from prior threads (including some classic ones on ipodlounge) it's clear that Lindrone was biased towards Sensaphonics and against UE.

It's also clear that he will continue to insist that the UE5c is dogmeat -- even though he has not heard them. (But I still maintain they represent an excellent price/value/sound signature tradeoff among all these customized options for portable use and are worthy of serious consideration, regardless of what lindrone or others who have NOT heard them yet might say.) And I still wish -- really, lindrone -- that you not speculate on the UE5c until/unless you've heard them. You have too much influence here not to use it sparingly and wisely.

For sure we have at least seen once again that "highest price" does not necessarily correlate with "best." In particular there are sound signature differences that make each of us prefer different phones, for different and equally valid reasons.

Two things are certainly true. (1) There will be Ety fans, Shure fans, Sensaphonic fans, UE fans, and sub-fans of products within each of those lines. All of that is good -- there is suddenly a lot more high-quality choices out there, which is great for all of us. (2) These are all opinions, nothing more. At the end of the day we will all continue to have our individual preferences which by definition are the most valid ones for us. (I like bass, for example -- and I'm not ashamed to admit it!)

Regardless of bias, I'm sure lindrone's review will be a fun and informative read and it will be interesting to hear what he has to say comparing Sensa 2X and UE10Pro based on his personal preferences and experiences.

 

[plainsong]

Lindrone does have his bias's, but he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he gives them a glowing review, then he's just justifying the expense of the UE10s that he payed for. If he gives them a bad review, he's obviously biased against UE. Can't you see how you guys have backed him into a corner? And this from the same people thanking him for it earlier.

As for the arguement of UE being the evil giant and Sensa the little company to cheer for, what's wrong with a company (UE) being successful? Have you ever considered the reason that they are successful is because maybe they know how to cut costs, and know how to effectively communicate? No doubt Sensa is a good company, but it seems they can't communicate with customers. If that's the case, then may the company who uses its common sense win.

That said, I'm eager to read an impression of thow these two IEM's compare _sonically_.

 

[utdeep]

Given the high correlation between Sensa pushers, UE insiders, and the political climate in the middle east, I sense that Lindrone's review will give us great insight into the future of democracy in Iraq and the existence of weapons of mass destruction. I'm really looking forward to it and so is the 9/11 panel.
Good luck with the review Lindrone! Don't worry about what everyone else thinks, and enjoy the music!

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Everyone has his/her biases because everyone has his/her preferences. But it is always Lindrone who makes 'bias' an issue as though he weren't biased himself. This thread is absurd. I don't go posting this kind of crap if my package gets lost. I only do it if the company does not display incentive or motivation to correct their errors.

You bet I don't care about what lindrone has to say about anything.