[Ntropic]

I recently purchased an iBasso D2 Boa, and I feel underwhelmed by its performance. Everybody that I've spoken to who have bought sound cards claimed the difference in sound quality from before and after was "night and day". One of them even owned a pair of HD555s, and got an Audigy 2ZS.

So when I got my D2 (shiny.), and plugged it in, I was a bit disappointed to find that my ears didn't explode in some sort of audiogasm. In fact, a bit of testing told me cymbals got sharper, bass is more separated, and mids I can't bother to figure out if they got better, but it's not night and day. On the other hand, surely a $200 MSRP DAC/amp must have better components than an Audigy 2ZS. The Wolfson DAC surely isn't a slouch (WM8740), nor is the PCM2706. My music is all 320kbps MP3 or FLAC.

What is the problem here? Is high end audio already giving me diminishing returns with my first DAC/amp? What if I were to buy a Pico? Would I still be underwhelmed?

Another possible explanation is equipment limitations, but 'night and day' on HD555s and the Audigy not happening on my A700s (or SF3s) and D2 doesn't seem to follow?

I wish there was another meet around here... That'd be the cheapest way to find out where I want to go with this hobby.

 

[Graphicism]

Portable amps are for IEMs.
Desktop amps are for full size headphones.

 

[Ntropic]

It's not an issue of power, right?

 

[SmellyGas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntropic /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not an issue of power, right?

The reality is that the source and amp don't make dramatic differences in sound quality. You've fallen for one of the classic "shared delusions" that is propagated and reinforced by people on these audio forums. Undoubtedly, someone will appear and tell you there's something wrong with your ears if you cannot hear the incredible improvement of this dac/amp upgrade, or perhaps he/she will claim that you have headphone/amp mismatch. You might even be tempted to upgrade your source/amp, only to find that it sounds....exact the same. Now, in all fairness, I would have expected there to be a subtle improvement going from a sound card to a dedicated amp...but that being said, if you want to dramatically alter your sound, upgrade your headphones.

 

[Seaside]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyGas /img/forum/go_quote.gif The reality is that the source and amp don't make dramatic differences in sound quality. You've fallen for one of the classic "shared delusions" that is propagated and reinforced by people on these audio forums. Undoubtedly, someone will appear and tell you there's something wrong with your ears if you cannot hear the incredible improvement of this dac/amp upgrade, or perhaps he/she will claim that you have headphone/amp mismatch.

Wow, I was about to say that for him. LOL.
There must be a certain improvement in sound for sure, but does everyone feels the same way? Not really. Some may call it day and night difference, others just barely notice it. And doesn't really matter when that improvement in sound simply is not your liking. I'd say, give it a couple days first, when you still don't like it, return it.

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmellyGas /img/forum/go_quote.gif The reality is that the source and amp don't make dramatic differences in sound quality. You've fallen for one of the classic "shared delusions" that is propagated and reinforced by people on these audio forums. Undoubtedly, someone will appear and tell you there's something wrong with your ears if you cannot hear the incredible improvement of this dac/amp upgrade, or perhaps he/she will claim that you have headphone/amp mismatch. You might even be tempted to upgrade your source/amp, only to find that it sounds....exact the same. Now, in all fairness, I would have expected there to be a subtle improvement going from a sound card to a dedicated amp...but that being said, if you want to dramatically alter your sound, upgrade your headphones.

... are you talking about this particular DAC/Amp or all DAC's and Amp's in existence? In other words it doesn't matter if you plug your headphones in to a Fisher-Price portable CD player or a $10,000 Amplifier the sound will stay the same?

 

[Ntropic]

It's not that the forums here have deluded me to anything. Everyone here should take what they read with a grain of salt. It's just that I figured a $160USD DAC/amp ought to be good value for something that is probably better than a Claro Halo for less. And if a Audigy 2 was night and day, I sure hoped the D2 was as well. More useful than a sound card too. I've always known my upgrade path would involve by and large going up the headphone tiers. I like my D2, it's just that I wish I could like it more.

In hindsight, I do suppose that cymbals and bass drums couldn't have gotten that much better.

Quote:

... are you talking about this particular DAC/Amp or all DAC's and Amp's in existence? In other words it doesn't matter if you plug your headphones in to a Fisher-Price portable CD player or a $10,000 Amplifier the sound will stay the same?

I think he's just picking on some of the more deluded people that like to exaggerate things. Like cables (yeah, I went there).

I kid. I'm sure there's an improvement with better cables.

 

[thoppa]

One other thing to consider is burn-in. Electrolytic caps can take a solid week to settle down and some vary wildly while they do it. This isn't a snake oil idea - I've heard this happen many times, especially with high quality gear.

So don't jump to conclusions with new gear - give it a month and then do some blind testing with the old stuff.

You should also seriously re-consider using 320Kbps files. Re-rip a favourite CD using EAC (freeware) to WAV 1411kbps and listen to the difference. If you don't get a night and day experience then consider a trip to the doctor to get your ears cleaned. That isn't a joke but it is meant in good humor.

HD space is so cheap these days - at least go lossless.

Tom

 

[Speederlander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should also seriously re-consider using 320Kbps files. Re-rip a favourite CD using EAC (freeware) to WAV 1411kbps and listen to the difference. If you don't get a night and day experience then consider a trip to the doctor to get your ears cleaned.

Difference is small and often not heard.

Note:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f133/p...ps-mp3-439212/

 

[AtomikPi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif ... are you talking about this particular DAC/Amp or all DAC's and Amp's in existence? In other words it doesn't matter if you plug your headphones in to a Fisher-Price portable CD player or a $10,000 Amplifier the sound will stay the same?

What he's saying is that all proper solid-state amplifiers sound the same. That means - flat frequency response, sufficient power to not be distorted (not an issue since most hp's require at most a few dozen mw), high input impedance, low output impedance (at least relative to the hp's).
(Essentially) all solid-state sources measure identically.

So if the fisher price portable cdp doesn't have any major imperfections it should be identical to your favorite esoteric/emm labs/berkeley/etc. DAC.

Sound cards though have an increased likelihood to not work well because they are not shielded from other sources of interference within the computer case.

 

[AtomikPi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif One other thing to consider is burn-in. Electrolytic caps can take a solid week to settle down and some vary wildly while they do it. This isn't a snake oil idea - I've heard this happen many times, especially with high quality gear.

I'm sorry but I almost laughed when I saw some of the exaggerations in your post - especially regarding 320vsFLAC which you would never say if you did some DBT.

There was literally just a thread about the fact that caps burn in in a fraction of a second and then continuously decline and eventually die. I'm not an expert on that topic so I won't comment further, but this is just misinformation and is factually incorrect.

 

[atothex]

$160 for an amp and DAC that isn't DIY is VERY cheap. This has nothing to do with the chip in your DAC. Maybe run it a bit longer, and see if it gets any better. If not, just sell it, and save up for something nice. Chalk it up to a lesson learned.

 

[Ntropic]

I've tried A/Bing FLAC/320. I can't tell the difference. I can do 192 or below against 320, but even then, the difference is small. Only 128 is particularly worse compared to 320, but only in busy electronica. I do keep FLAC collections for lossless archival purposes, however.

Burn in could be an issue. The previous owner didn't use the D2 much, so it's probably only had 60 hours or so on it.

On the subject of caps, why use do amps use electrolytic caps? Why not those fancy aluminium caps you see in computer electronics?

On an unrelated note, does anybody know of any 3.5mm plugs with barrel long enough to house a female 3.5mm end? I'm trying to make a straight impedance adapter (why, I don't know).

On a slightly related note, the Pico, I believe, uses the same WM8740 and PCM2706 in the Boa, and with a different amp section. And other higher ($500 total) quality parts. Why do I have a feeling that the difference will be, again, small?

 

[thoppa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomikPi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry but I almost laughed when I saw some of the exaggerations in your post - especially regarding 320vsFLAC which you would never say if you did some DBT. There was literally just a thread about the fact that caps burn in in a fraction of a second and then continuously decline and eventually die. I'm not an expert on that topic so I won't comment further, but this is just misinformation and is factually incorrect.

I'm not interested in starting an argument about this because I've heard it happen many times. It very much depends on the type of caps. To say it doesn't happen for any cap is absurd - I hope that wasn't the conclusion of whatever thread you are talking about. Just cos you read it on a forum doesn't make it true. You have to hear things for yourself to know. Some people love to argue about things they've never experienced and think the proof of something not existing is their lack of experience. Buy some Black Gate FK. They go all over the place sonically for about three days. I'd bet that electrically (ESR, leakage, etc,) they hardly change at all in that time because they have very tight specs - might explain the silly price.

I can also hear the difference between a lossless or WAV file and 320kps file. I can't hear the difference between a WAV and a lossless. If you or the op or anyone else can/can't that's fine, but I can and I don't wear my underpants outside my trousers.

Tom

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomikPi /img/forum/go_quote.gif What he's saying is that all proper solid-state amplifiers sound the same. That means - flat frequency response, sufficient power to not be distorted (not an issue since most hp's require at most a few dozen mw), high input impedance, low output impedance (at least relative to the hp's). (Essentially) all solid-state sources measure identically.

That I wouldn't agree with, all amps I've heard sound different... if you can't hear a difference I'd look at your other equipment, namely your headphones... unless of course I'm misunderstanding, I still don't really understand this amping is in your head thing going on... I can understand it for burn-in, even for cables, but not for equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtomikPi /img/forum/go_quote.gif So if the fisher price portable cdp doesn't have any major imperfections it should be identical to your favorite esoteric/emm labs/berkeley/etc. DAC.

Now that I know isn't true, all DACs sound different... next you'll be telling me all graphics cards are the same, it's just in our heads!