[BloodSugar00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterDLai /img/forum/go_quote.gif If Wikipedia has it right (which of course is not saying much for accuracy), it appears that the 4G Nano uses Wolfson as well with the only two exceptions in the iPod lineup being the iPod classic (6G) and iPod shuffle. I guess Wolfson decided after its 25% drop that they needed the Apple contract and somehow convinced Apple to change their minds. I guess the end result is Apple hiding the Wolfson branding on their own chips (search for "WM6180C" on that page). I wonder how they determined the Wolfson model number? If you search "WM6180C" on Google, all the results that come up pretty much are sites with information derived from this one report. There's no information about the characteristics of properties of this codec. If this one report is wrong (I'm not saying it is), then the wrong information spread far across the Internet. <begin highly doubtful conspiracy theory> Wolfson lost its contract with Apple, hurts financially, but is bribing Apple to disguise the new DAC under Apple branding (which is actually made by Cirrus Logic) and to stay quiet about who actually manufactures it. Wolfson tries to save face by having one site declare that Apple is continuing to use their chips, but with secret codenames (e.g. WM6180C, where the C actually stands for Cirrus Logic). This one site is believed to be true by the rest of the world as Wolfson's stock rises. </end> I had fun with that.

Looking t all that, which is very well linked and explained, I'd have to agree with your suspicions, also, knowing, from first hand listening experience, that the 4G Nano does sound distinctly different from the 6.5G Classic! I don't think your conspiracy theory is that far fetched at all TBH, and, from the information you've linked me to, thats pretty much the only conclusion one could reach, the only reasoning one could decifer. Don't get me wrong, I won't, personally, be getting carried away and assuming, like yourself, that this is actually going on- you rightly say yourself that one cannot be sure of the accuracy of the information you've linked- but it does appear to be the case and makes logical (no pun intended) sense. Very intriguing and thanks fro sharing.

 

[BloodSugar00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicksonrt66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not that I'm a fan of cumbersome DRM, but that's no reason not to have itunes/ipod be able to handle other schemes like Rhapsody. Locking in your customers is the reason. One of the complaints was not being able to reload your computer from the ipod in case you have to format the HD (or maybe the comp goes dead and you have to buy a new one). Does Itunes (like 2 other online music vendors I use) keep a record of your purchases so you can download the whole lot again if you need to? If you had a normal disk backup, is there a procedure for getting the license to work if you have to load everything to a new computer? (assuming you have just the backup, not a working old computer)

I cannot anwser your queries, due to my limited experience with ipods and itunes, but they are interesting scenarios you arise where itunes and/or ipods may let you down. Again, not something you'd consider really, til it happens to you (or you have experience of it before that causes you to take it into consideration when purchasing a DAP).

 

[BloodSugar00]

Sorry, quick question to anyone, what is DRM that is being referenced with regards to use of itunes? Just not familiar with what that abreviates. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Few more simple holes in my awareness/knowledge:

Audio File formats- What is ALAC (I assume an apple-lossless propietary codec but can someone please confirm?).

and...

AIFF. Never heard of this. What is it?

 

[Kicksonrt66]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodSugar00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, quick question to anyone, what is DRM that is being referenced with regards to use of itunes? Just not familiar with what that abreviates. Thanks in advance. EDIT: Few more simple holes in my awareness/knowledge: Audio File formats- What is ALAC (I assume an apple-lossless propietary codec but can someone please confirm?). and... AIFF. Never heard of this. What is it?

DRM - Digital Rights Management. TO keep you from sharing copies of purchased music/video/whatever. I think there are 3 common systems for on-line music: Itunes (Itunes music only plays on Ipod, and Ipod only plays Itunes music), Microsoft "Plays for Sure" (used by Napster and Walmart), and a second one from Microsoft just for Zunes/Zune store (trying for the Apple style customer lock in). In general it involves some encryption of the material and some way of keeping the decryption key for your account secure.

THe term also covers things like copy protection on DVD's.

ALAC - Yes, Apple's lossless compression.

AIFF - Apple's equivalent to wav, uncompressed audio format.

 

[roebeet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnostic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Seriously, come on! I can imagine you like Itunes, the Ipod, or the Iphone but don't make it out like Apple's business practices are forced upon them by others. It's their very modus operandi and it's been getting worse and worse these last years with their growing success.

Well said.

 

[roebeet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicksonrt66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not that I'm a fan of cumbersome DRM, but that's no reason not to have itunes/ipod be able to handle other schemes like Rhapsody. Locking in your customers is the reason. One of the complaints was not being able to reload your computer from the ipod in case you have to format the HD (or maybe the comp goes dead and you have to buy a new one). Does Itunes (like 2 other online music vendors I use) keep a record of your purchases so you can download the whole lot again if you need to? If you had a normal disk backup, is there a procedure for getting the license to work if you have to load everything to a new computer? (assuming you have just the backup, not a working old computer)

I don't use iTunes either, but my friends / relatives do. I had assisted two people with rebuilding their PC's. In scenario one, the drive was completely fried - the user was able to logon afterwards and retrieve all their purchased music, however. In scenario two, we had a backup of the drive and we didn't have to re-download any music. we just had to logon once and the tracks on the disk were re-authorized, I believe.

I'll admit that I was impressed with that - Apple had done their homework and must have thought about these scenarios and how to correct them.

(But drag and drop is still better, imo).

 

[BloodSugar00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicksonrt66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif DRM - Digital Rights Management. TO keep you from sharing copies of purchased music/video/whatever. I think there are 3 common systems for on-line music: Itunes (Itunes music only plays on Ipod, and Ipod only plays Itunes music), Microsoft "Plays for Sure" (used by Napster and Walmart), and a second one from Microsoft just for Zunes/Zune store (trying for the Apple style customer lock in). In general it involves some encryption of the material and some way of keeping the decryption key for your account secure. THe term also covers things like copy protection on DVD's. ALAC - Yes, Apple's lossless compression. AIFF - Apple's equivalent to wav, uncompressed audio format.

Thanks for all that, much obliged

 

[johsu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodSugar00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The ipod's overall sound to me is very neutral, with no one area of the frequency range recieving any real accentuation of note; bass, mids, highs all reproduced at a good, pretty much level to one another, volume. The sound appears to have a slight colur and/or veil to it but this is part of it's sound sig and sound distinction and isn't really an affect on sound quality. It affects sound clarity slightly, being more translucent than transparent say, but the quality is still very good to my ears. Also, another minor quibble may be that, on occasions, it's vocal presentation can be a little constricted and in the head.

Adding my $.02 here. I own a 3G iPod, iPod nano, Sony HD3 & E507, Zune 8GB, various MD players and have tried several other DAPs.

I agree with your seessment on the iPod's sound. The quality is very good and clear, and is neutral across the range: high, mid, bass; and that's its sound signature. I do enjoy listen to it most of the time; however, sometimes it's too "neutral" and lack of emotion, and almost "boring".

So, it's really depend on your taste and preference of music, as well as the mix & match of various sound signature of DAP & head gears. For example, my Ety works wonderful on iPod, but sucks with Zune; on the other hand, AT-EM7 comes alive with Zune, but not the other way around. But that's part of the fun, right?

 

[Xan7hos]

Agree with DJGeorgeT, there are a lot of things Apple did right with their DAPs, just a lotta things wrong. I myself owned an 80g Video Ipod and 2G Nano 4gb. Switched to the Sansa Clip recently, and I do miss that UI

 

[aloksatoor]

i just like itunes to take care of my ratings and update my smart playlists..... but i do hate to use itunes as a source..... foobar beats it on everything!!!!..... but yeah ipods are the only mass market product with good quality lineout docks easily available......

 

[Cloudman]

I know this is all about the SQ......but just look at the things, they are beautifully designed and constructed (I'm biased as I run an industrial design consultancy working a lot in the hi-fi field). The package as a whole (GUI, touch screen etc) make for great user experience.

 

[Calexico]

IMO iPod designs have become exceptionally boring.

I feel the Zune 120, while not having the better looking exterior, has a better looking interface which sort of balances out.

The new Nano looks incredibly toy-like to me, and I prefer the look of Sony's high quality players, although their interface isn't nearly as good-looking. When I first saw pictures of the Nano, I wanted one IMMEDIATELY, but after seeing them in real life, they just look like plastic toys rather than anything high quality. My favorite looking Nanos would be the 1st 2 generations. I like the flash Zune's look more than the iPod in both interface and exterior, but I don't think that is a popular opinion.

The Touch is very good looking, but I feel that the Samsung P2 looks much better, but it's interface is bland compared to the Touch's.

Maybe I just prefer players with more sharp corners?

 

[Signal2Noise]

I won't "bash" the iPod but I will bash the company that makes them.

First iTunes itself is horrendous. Very slow, flawed, and does not get along well external HDDs.

Secondly, if you want the 'latest & greatest' features for the iPod Apple pretty much forces you to buy the newest model. Their modus operandi is 'throwaway technology for the masses'. Apple is the new Sony: Form Over Function.

 

[Calexico]

iTunes is alright for Mac, pretty much the only thing that implements a media library well that I've tried. I've tried Cog and Songbird, but I didn't like Songbird because it didn't really improve on iTunes at all but didn't run as consistently, and Cog did not have a library function/ID3 tag browsing, or at least I couldn't find any.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

I think ipods look cool, but that's just about it. You'll never see me using iTunes.