[Kicksonrt66]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif klickson: a default is only a click away from anything else. my itunes (as far as i have used it in now 2 years) has never defaulted to protected aac, in fact i have never seen this option. my sony plays my itunes aac files perfectly as well as other software and some car players. im not sure where you get this.

IN the version 8 I just installed, ripping to protected doesn't even seem to be an option. IN the first version I had (whatever was first available for Windows) protected was default, and changing that was definitely buried in the fine print. The possibility was certainly not mentioned in the "It's easy! Just stick a CD in the slot!" quick-start manual.

 

[Dublo7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pata2001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Being on different forums, I can clearly see the trend and iPod bashers everywhere. I'm just going to describe some of them. From what I've seen, most of them are Sony fanboys. In general, what I see is people correlate more bass as better SQ. Sony and other manufactures obviously know this, thus offering sound distorting "enhancements" (clear bass, BBE, x-fi, etc etc), and people love it. EQ has never been the strongest feat of the iPods, thus they become easy target for the bashers in the name of "SQ." I mean think about it, how many people think the EX71 is a great in-ear phone (boomy bass, harsh highs, non-existant muddy mids)? Quite a lot of people do. As for other type of bashing, one of the biggest one was gapless playback. People were bashing iPods to no end (again, usually the same Sony fanboys) about the lack of gapless playback, claiming gapless playback as the holy grail. Now, iPods are gapless capable, yet most other DAPs Iincluding the ones from Sony (only gapless with WAV)) are not. Suddenly, gapless playback is not important anymore, and the same people are toning down gapless playback as "not important' or "nobody listen to gapless music." I observed this on dapreview, comparing the comments made during the Rio Karma era and after gapless playback is introduced on iPods. Then, there are the MD fanboys. The obvious bash is that iPods cannot record. Most of this type of bashing failed to include MD player/downloader only units, which obviously cannot record. A different type of bash is about storage. Many MD users used to bash iPods for the limited capacity, bragging about the "unlimited" capacity of removable media. Fast forward to 160GB iPod, now I see comments from the same people on MD board about how "1GB is enough," "I don't need to carry all my music," etc. Many still bash iPods today, claiming iPods have "poor" battery life and no gapless playback. Next is the iTunes bashers, starting from the claim that iPods can only be used with iTunes, while forgetting that iPods can be used on Windows, Macs, and even Linux, with a variety of software (winamp, songbird, etc). The funny part is that hardly anybody complaint about the Zune being locked into 1 software, windows only, and not even UMS. Next bash is how AAC is "Apple's proprietary" format. There are also the general iTunes bashers, ignoring the advance features of iTunes like Podcast, smart playlist, etc. I find some of these people are still using, and actually prefer Sony's abandoned Sonicstage. As for the bashing of iTunes being bloaty (on windows), I think that is somewhat acceptable, especially when comparing with the speedier older versions of iTunes (when there was no video support). Luckily Mac users don't experience this. Then, there are the general bashers. This mostly can be seen on engadget or digg, as people will bash iPods/Apple just because, even on non-Apple related articles. Simplified, the common basher points were battery life, gapless playback, and sound quality. Battery life and gapless playback are no longer an issue in current iPods, thus bashing based on SQ, which is highly subjective, is the best and will remain as the most popular pick.

Hehe, I'm still pissed off that my D2 doesn't have gapless playback.
Also, I'm still not really satisfied with iTunes' performance on Windows. In fact, it's downright pathetic.

However, one reason I love the iPod and iTunes ecosystem is that it's all connected so damn well. The app store and the iTunes store (even though i don't use it) is so well thought out and put together. It's just a shame that apple doesn't sell songs in Apple Lossless, as then I might buy a few.

 

[ljs]

you might want to take a look at this post:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/ir...-sheep-135363/

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif haha, it sounds more like bitterness that has driven you away. i hated ipods too and actually, looked down in anyone who used one. then i heard one and realised that my 'excellent better than ipod pmp' was really just another pmp with a fanbase that looked down on ipod users. i will not buy that people who use ipods look down on other people. people use them because they are easy to find and have good accessory support and are a known quantity.

umm, you are right, ipods have way too many accessories

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif if anything, people who use non-ipods turn more heads than those who don't as those persons actually had to go looking for one.

and that is because people wonder if I have a newer iPod...

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif but to say that other players sound better is wrong. they don't. the ipod has never been a bad sounding player, just never exceptional until recently.

any ipod sounds better than my sansa e280, but that is because the e280 does not sound good at all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif i think that ipod haters in general make up a huge amount of dross just to protect their identity as ipod haters.

so what is your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif as far as pricing is concerned, the ipod is not as cheap as sansa or meizu or comparing it to older releases from other companies like the d2 for instance, but compared to new releases it is usually the same price or cheaper. if you buy the sony that only work with sonic stage, you shell out much more money than you would ever shell out for non-sonicstage sony machines. my 829 8gb cost much more money than an ipod of 8 gb. it is a nice player if i can get used to the hiss but far more expensive

ipod nano 16GB = $173.99
sansa fuze 8 GB + 8 GB microSDHC = $70 + $20 = $90
sony s639 16 GB = $145 shipped from the UK to the USA

both fuze and s639 have radio and recording capability, no proprietary software to sync music or any software.

both fuze and sony sound really good, best of the best.

comparing a cowon d2 16 Gb to a nano is like comparing a BMW to a ford focus. Not the same thing.

 

[edart]

Is there any irony in the fact that one can now buy a new Ipod over the internet on an Ipod?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT /img/forum/go_quote.gif comparing a cowon d2 16 Gb to a nano is like comparing a BMW to a ford focus. Not the same thing.

Do they not both have four wheels, an engine, lights, windscreens, and can be stolen, driven and totaled by teenage joyriders?

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT /img/forum/go_quote.gif umm, you are right, ipods have way too many accessories and that is because people wonder if I have a newer iPod... any ipod sounds better than my sansa e280, but that is because the e280 does not sound good at all! so what is your point? ipod nano 16GB = $173.99 sansa fuze 8 GB + 8 GB microSDHC = $70 + $20 = $90 sony s639 16 GB = $145 shipped from the UK to the USA both fuze and s639 have radio and recording capability, no proprietary software to sync music or any software. both fuze and sony sound really good, best of the best. comparing a cowon d2 16 Gb to a nano is like comparing a BMW to a ford focus. Not the same thing.

the bikini is a bit too much eh?

but as for pricing, i will stand by my claim. i will not speak for off brands like sansa that are made 100% of plastic. if you buy a sony that needs sonicstage, it will be more than an ipod. the ones that do not use them are cheaper.

radio: that would be nice, but so too would gapless playback and aac capability. my 829 has neither but has a bluetooth transmitter and requires windows and sonicstage to even run. it does however record very well.

it is hard to wade through this forum without being weighed down by comments upon comments about certain products, the ipod in particular that have nothing to do with the product but rather with a person's own ideals. those ideals are pushed way too much. i was a sheep and bought into meizu, iriver and cowon after coming down from md land. now i am no longer in the anti-sheep camp.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif the bikini is a bit too much eh?

it is a g-string

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif but as for pricing, i will stand by my claim. i will not speak for off brands like sansa that are made 100% of plastic. if you buy a sony that needs sonicstage, it will be more than an ipod. the ones that do not use them are cheaper.

apple used PVC previously. PVC is toxic, so they made a move to metal. I have no problems with plastic chassis. My Cowon D2, Rio Karma, sansa clip, sansa fuze feature plastic chassis. Never had an issue. Seriously, my blackberry is all plastic and so is my nokia. This is such a frugal detail. I am surprise you would use it to make a case for the ipod. We buy audio gear because of the way it sounds, not because of the way it looks or whether it is made of plastic or aluminum. At least audiophiles do.

The fact is regarless of whatever excuse you use in your mind to justify your purchase of an apple product, there are cheaper and superior product offerings in the market that are not by apple. You can't argue with the prices I listed in my previous message. That's the reality. Apple just continues to inflate the prices of their products.

 

[_j_]

Can someone explain to me why the exclusion of Drag and Drop file management from iPods and Zunes is considered such a big negative?

Maybe it's just because my music collection is so large, but I could not imagine ever trolling through folders for songs I would want to copy to a DAP while trying to fill a quota of GBs. Maybe if the space limit on the player was 500MB I would think Drag and Drop would be nice...but seriously how long does it take you drag and droppers to rotate your players music etc?

 

[rlpaul]

The complaint isn't about wanting to Drag and Drop to add music... its the inability to use 3rd party software to manage the DAP. Not a problem for ipod classics, but annoying for ipod touch and iphone.

Also a PITA if you're using linux.

 

[globiboulga]

I remember when I first researched MP3 players (as they were known back then), NOT buying an ipod was a no brainer. The X5 I ended up getting was way better than the ipod offering at the time and it did not need itunes; and there was no doubt as to which device sounded better.

Right now, the decision is harder. No necessarily because Apple has made progress (as far as audiophiles are concerned - I would still pick an X5), but because no one has really stepped up to them. I am still waiting for the X7, and as we all know, it's a delusion, I am living in a dream. In the meantime, I am not impressed by any offering, and quite depressed that my D2 sounds worse (to my ears) than my beloved X5 I unfortunately gave to my brother. The O2 isn't exciting and I have little hope about the S9.

See, I now have an iPhone, so I am introduced to Apple's world. I am sorry but Apple's sound is bad, and iTunes is a disgrace. Mind you it's a fun toy to play some games and it does internet and basic PDA functions well enough to be an enjoyable gagdet. Videos are good on it, but you can bet that any offering from Cowon or Archos would put it to shame (the encoding and file management itself would justify a video player if I watched more movies than I do now).

If Flac and drag & drop were an option, I would even probably go for the Zune, although I have not seen any in the wild and rely on sound assessment to what is written around. The Zune software itself is funnier to use than iTunes, although I have no doubt that it's as painful to use on a daily basis.

I've had my D2 for 2 years now and although the upgradatis is itching, I see nothing that could be a worthy replacement. I am one of those painful idiots who like to have all his music on one device and plenty of juice in the battery so that I don't have to plug the player constently and manage the music. I've got more interesting things to do in life than to make sure that all my tags are up to date, my files of moment in the player and that there is enough electricity in it so that I can last until I reach the pub.

 

[_j_]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlpaul /img/forum/go_quote.gif The complaint isn't about wanting to Drag and Drop to add music... its the inability to use 3rd party software to manage the DAP. Not a problem for ipod classics, but annoying for ipod touch and iphone. Also a PITA if you're using linux.

Thanks for info! Makes sense about Linux.

However, is Drag and Drop and 3rd party management the same thing?

I was under the impression that earlier in the thread Drag and drop was mentioned as a preferred way of some folk to fill their DAP.

Like this post for example: Quote:

Originally Posted by roebeet /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think Microsoft are just as bad as Apple, in this area. The Zune has some nice features, and I've read that the SQ is quite good. But, the lack of Vorbis / FLAC support + the Zune software requirement to sync just killed any chance of me purchasing one. Why can't MS / Apple support drag and drop, like everybody else? Is that so hard? And why is it so hard to add royalty-free codecs? Sandisk seems to have no problem with doing this.

I just still don't understand the draw of drag and drop...or I am just dense or lazy or something.

 

[pata2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkingman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyway isn't it in to hate on Sony as well? I see more Sony bashing than iPod bashing these days. And plenty are from Mac fanboys who claim Sony stole design cues for their Vaios for example...

It's only "in" to hate Sony in the DAP world when Sony was still using Atrac. Now, most Sony haters are on the PS3.

I haven't read (even on engadget/digg) any Mac fanboys claiming Sony stealing Apple design. Most of the discussion merely started from Mac users unknowingly said something about the design of the latest Apple keyboard, and people reminding them that Sony Vaio has that kind of chiclets keyboard first. Actually, I've seen more Sony fanboys bashing Apple copying the keyboard design without any provocation.

 

[pata2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJGeorgeT /img/forum/go_quote.gif One advantage of ipods is gapless playback, but that's just it. Not everyone needs gapless playback, so don't tell me I need gapless when I don't.

Well, when gapless playback was not supported in iPods, they are bashed left & right by Sony/MD/Rio Karma fanboys, claiming gapless playback to be the holy grail of an audio player. Like I said, now gapless playback is toned down a lot by many websites that it's not important for proper playback of music.

I don't see people "forcing" you to "need" gapless playback. On the other hand, I still see MD fanboys claiming iPods cannot do gapless.

 

[pata2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicksonrt66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another DRM issue was that the default when ripping your own CD's was protected AAC, again, only for Ipod.

Another great example of misinformation.

My guess is that you are used to use Windows Media Player (default ripping setting as DRMed WMA) or Sonicstage (default ripping setting as DRMed Atrac). iTunes don't put any DRM on self-ripped tracks, it cannot and never did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicksonrt66 /img/forum/go_quote.gif IN the version 8 I just installed, ripping to protected doesn't even seem to be an option. IN the first version I had (whatever was first available for Windows) protected was default, and changing that was definitely buried in the fine print. The possibility was certainly not mentioned in the "It's easy! Just stick a CD in the slot!" quick-start manual.

Because the option was never there to begin with.

I'll be happy to be proven wrong.
My guess is you probably are referring to Musicmatch jukebox, which Apple used to ship with iPods for windows compatibility when there was no iTunes for windows, but I don't think MMJB has fairplay DRM at all. Also, in the beginning, iPods were the only mainstream DAP that supports AAC, which is why many people believed that AAC to be Apple's proprietary format despite Apple not being involved in the development of AAC (Sony was). This also led people to believe AAC to be Apple's "DRM" and only playable on iPods, despite the wide use of the format on cellphones before iPods. The only "proprietary" about the AAC that iTunes rip is the tags/extension, which become de-facto standard now.

 

[pata2001]

Oh, I forgot another type of bash, the FLAC/Ogg fanboys.

I tend to see this on engadget/hydrogenaudio. Again, the funny thing is none of them ever complaint about the Zune or Sony players, which don't support FLAC/Ogg either.

Another one, the Rio Karma fanboys. The Rio Karma is/was a great player, no doubt about that. But I've seen people advising other people to get the Rio Karma over iPods, today, in 2008. The Rio Karma has been long discontinued for God's sake. The same thing applies for iRiver iHP fanboys (just replace Rio Karma with iRiver iHP series.