[Hyde00]

However I find it more responsive to setup changes than my Topping D90 was.
I find streaming from any computer using USB sounds rubbish.
So a streamer or DDC is a must.

lol I find it odd that, the more expensive dac I tried the crappier USB is, I never ran into USB issue with cheaper dacs. Only exception is Schiit where Unison USB is pretty good across the board.

Audion GD DAC19 is very old. If not upgraded with v2 R2R modules, it may even disappoint. There are number generations since then.

Funny enough I actually like DAC19 better than Ares II and Draco LOL. The USB also sounded really good. But I agree I should try the newer Audio-GD dac later.

For your tube amp Audio GD R-1 would pair very well, but considering your ground loops problems I would suggest R-8Mk2. It has USB isolator, while R-1 do not. In your current configuration a quality DDC like DI-20 will help for sure. In meantime consider simple methods for eliminating ground loops:

- self powered USB 2.0 hub
- ifi Defender
- converters to S/PDIF with ultra low jitter clocks like Douk Audio U2Pro.

When you solve ground loops problem, DACs may look different.
Q. How do I know?
A. When USB connection sounds better than S/PDIF.

That being said....... I tried look for Audio-GD R1 I think they're not that mainstream so it's a bit harder to find. But it's ok I have big expenses coming up so not buying dac anytime soon, but will keep an eye out for it.

Though I can't hear any hum or noise from my dac, how would I know I have ground loop? I did however notice if I plug 2 dac at the same time it will make each other sound terrible, the moment I unplug the other one then it comes back to dynamic and punch and wide sounding. So I suspect my bigger issue might be USB port power. Maybe I should look into a powered USB hub.

As for Draco / Ares II, I feel like it might be a clock issue. Because after using SMSL PO100 then imaging/layering/soundstage went up. So maybe SMSL PO100 has better clock timing than my computer USB.

SMSL PO100
https://hifigo.com/blogs/news/s-m-s-l-po100-latest-usb-type-c-digital-audio-interface

Basically a nice DDC will solve all of this issue just no money right now.

Thanks for the detailed reply! Good food for thought. I wonder how the presentation changes when paired with a solid state amp rather than an SE tube amp? My amp (Asgard 3) is RCA only and SE so I’d likely be bottlenecking the Draco (or Ares II) a bit by not utilizing XLR.

If I remember correctly Asgard 3 is a warm solid state amp right? So I'd imagine it wouldn't be too different since both would suffer from the RCA vs XLR thing. Where all the balanced dac are optimized to use XLR.

I'm still struggling to find the perfect single ended R2R dac LOL. I tried Modi Multibit 2 it's really good though, but I just wish there's a bit more mids. But something with Modi Multibit 2 size / price is probably what I'd want. More manufacturers need to make more single ended budget R2R dacs.

My only experience with R2R DACs to date is a Cayin RU6 which is limited to IEM use only via 4.4mm output. I like how it sounds with most of my IEMs which is why I’m considering an R2R for desktop to pair with my LCD-2 and Empyrean.

I’m mostly a streamer via Spotify and Tidal but do also have a fair amount of FLAC files as well. However I tend to stream more often than not. I’d prefer to not have to add a DDC or streamer but am also considering it if I’ll be otherwise disappointed with USB or optical in from my PC.

I had a Cayin RU6 and I agree it was quite good, we need more manufacturer makes budget R2R dacs in general.

I stream from Spotify from PC also. I think in this case DDC would work, since DDC run off USB off your PC then feed the dac with either I2S/Coax/Optical. Only issue is a nice DDC is quite expensive. Namely:

Denafrips Iris
Singxer SU2
Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 3

Maybe like sajunky said can probably start with Douk Audio U2Pro probably cheaper.

 

[TheRealDz]

@Hyde00 How are you getting along with the Draco now that you've had it for some time? Sticking with the Coax in or optical?

I'm looking to upgrade from my trusty Modi 3 and am currently eyeing the Draco and Ares II / Enyo.

My Draco is connected to my Douk U2 Pro DDC via hdmi I2S - and it connected immediately, without drama. An I2S connection is another big advantage the Draco has over my old Ares 2.

 

[Hyde00]

Do we conclude at this point if you own a Ares II or Draco then DDC or streamer is pretty much a requirement?

 

[Garney]

I have some reading to do, apparently. Unfamiliar with DDCs and the advantages of I2S.

The Douc U2 is inexpensive so that’s good to see.

 

[Nick Taylor]

Do we conclude at this point if you own a Ares II or Draco then DDC or streamer is pretty much a requirement?

Either those or a good CD transport.
There is a great article ,you may have seen, about setting up the Draco here:
https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/musician-audio-draco-r-2r-ladder-dac-review/

 

[Hyde00]

I have some reading to do, apparently. Unfamiliar with DDCs and the advantages of I2S.

The Douc U2 is inexpensive so that’s good to see.

To be honest I don't fully understand either. So I could be wrong, but the quick/short rundown is:

DDC = Digital to Digital Converter

Apparently USB is a very bad form to deliver audio also Window does processing to your file no matter what. So generally it's better to bypass Windows entirely by using Streamer. So you get internet -> streamer -> dac, as oppose to internet -> PC -> PC does some weird processing -> dac. For example Windows always convert audio to 32 bit then convert back to your specified bit depth (from what I read).

In the case you can't avoid PC then you use DDC instead. USB has timing and from what I gather is that PC USB timing generally is pretty bad, so you use a dedicated DDC which has its own clock then it puts the perfectly timed audio to your dac through I2S/Coax/Optical. Timing help with layering/imaging/soundstage cues.

Though I'm not too sure why IS2 is better than Coax/Optical, I need to read into it. Like DDC is another hole that I never knew existed until recently lol.

 

[Garney]

To be honest I don't fully understand either. So I could be wrong, but the quick/short rundown is:

DDC = Digital to Digital Converter

Apparently USB is a very bad form to deliver audio also Window does processing to your file no matter what. So generally it's better to bypass Windows entirely by using Streamer. So you get internet -> streamer -> dac, as oppose to internet -> PC -> PC does some weird processing -> dac. For example Windows always convert audio to 32 bit then convert back to your specified bit depth (from what I read).

In the case you can't avoid PC then you use DDC instead. USB has timing and from what I gather is that PC USB timing generally is pretty bad, so you use a dedicated DDC which has its own clock then it puts the perfectly timed audio to your dac through I2S/Coax/Optical. Timing help with layering/imaging/soundstage cues.

Though I'm not too sure why IS2 is better than Coax/Optical, I need to read into it. Like DDC is another hole that I never knew existed until recently lol.

Very helpful. Thanks for spelling it out!

I’ll likely dip a toe in with something like the Douc U2 that @TheRealDz mentioned and take it from there.

 

[sajunky]

That being said....... I tried look for Audio-GD R1 I think they're not that mainstream so it's a bit harder to find. But it's ok I have big expenses coming up so not buying dac anytime soon, but will keep an eye out for it.

Though I can't hear any hum or noise from my dac, how would I know I have ground loop? I did however notice if I plug 2 dac at the same time it will make each other sound terrible, the moment I unplug the other one then it comes back to dynamic and punch and wide sounding. So I suspect my bigger issue might be USB port power. Maybe I should look into a powered USB hub.

Search on second-hand market. If not like, sell on the same price.

Correct. There is no hum and noise on silent parts, but a sound create series of correlated noise. Our ears are very sensitive to this type of distortions, but untrained brain can't hear it till.... it dissappear.

Re. USB hub: It has nothing to do with power requirements. Any PC port will afford. I suggest to use self-powered USB hub due to redirecting ground loops from PC to the hub's power supply. A current flow is changed, significant portion is not entering a DAC anymore, it cause less harm.

On the start you can use $15 hub with SMPS. Do not plug more devices to this hub unless it is clear that a hub has multi-transaction translator feature. Connecting other modern DAC is fine. If sound improves, try a linear PSU which is more expensive.

Ifi Defender does the same, but it is specially designed to be more effective.

I'm still struggling to find the perfect single ended R2R dac LOL. I tried Modi Multibit 2 it's really good though, but I just wish there's a bit more mids. But something with Modi Multibit 2 size / price is probably what I'd want. More manufacturers need to make more single ended budget R2R dacs.

Certainly. Audio GD makes a nice R2R-11Mk2. It sounds better than Modi Multibit 2. It also has preamp and decent HPA. It might even replace your tube amp simplifying setup. But first you would need to deal with ground loop issues the same as you need now. Otherwise Modi will come closer, as Unison interface comes with isolated USB port.

Do we conclude at this point if you own a Ares II or Draco then DDC or streamer is pretty much a requirement?

Not, but in most cases like yours.

 

[Hyde00]

Search on second-hand market. If not like, sell on the same price.

lol yeah...... that's the issue though, I couldn't find anything on the second hand market and I checked like 3 sites. Where as Ares II I can almost find it in my local second hand market any day everyday (why is everyone selling it???? ), kind of why I went for Ares II first since it was so easy to find.

But I'll definitely keep watching all the classified posts see if anything pops up later.

Correct. There is no hum and noise on silent parts, but a sound create series of correlated noise. Our ears are very sensitive to this type of distortions, but untrained brain can't hear it till.... it dissappear.

Ifi Defender does the same, but it is specially designed to be more effective.

Yeah I might start with iFi Defender+ first then, a bit more manageable cost wise at the moment lol.

Audio GD makes a nice R2R-11Mk2

Yes I was looking at that too, feels like it might fit my use case a bit better (smaller footprint and cheaper, need to fit under my monitor stand which has room for something like Bifrost 2 sized item).

Will also keep an eye out for one lol.

Unison interface comes with isolated USB port

Ohhh never knew about isolated USB port, I guess one more thing to pay attention to in the future lol thanks.

 

[pjholst]

Hi all!
First off I'd like to say I've enjoyed following this thread for a while. I've been using a Draco for few months and have been following along since before my purchase last fall.

I've usually been playing back with the USB connect. I just acquired a Singxer SU-2, and I've run into an odd issue that I'm wondering if anyone else has had. When I playback via the SU-2 with either I2S or Coax SDIF, I get an occasional click/chirp on one of the channels. Seems random, but it happens more often with higher sample rate PCM or DSD tracks than it does with lower rate PCM.
I can't remember if I've heard this with the USB connection. If it did happen, it wasn't noticeable like it is with the SU-2. I also have a Pi2AES, but I don't use it with the Draco as I can't get DSD to play through I2S. Another DAC (Gustard X-16) doesn't have this problem, so I'm thinking it is the Draco that is doing it. To me it sounds a bit like what you get when the sample rate changes on some setups. Also similar to what I get when I turn NOS mode on and off.

Sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Johnybuchar]

Does anyone try fuse replacement? I can see only very positive feedback in case of Pegasus.

 

[Nick Taylor]

Does anyone try fuse replacement? I can see only very positive feedback in case of Pegasus.

Yes I tried fuse replacement with silver fuses I think and found it made the upper midrange harsh and fatiguing so I put the original ones back as the smoother sound better suits my system.

 

[disastermouse]

So after a few months of listening, my final thoughts on this vs the Denafrips is that I like this one a bit better. I hear just a bit more dynamics and resolution. The catch is that it is really only a marginal difference - ie, I am not sure I could identify one over the other if A-B'ing them. But given the consensus high regard for the Ares, this is actually high praise.

The inclusion of the hdmi I2S connection, along with I2S configurability so that it is compatible with multiple DDCs are welcome features over the Ares. Its idiosyncratic looks are not a welcome addition though. Its weird angular shape and non-standard size kind of ruin the aesthetics of my equipment stack.

In my opinion, it is not worth doing what I did - ie, selling my Ares to get this. But if you have a DDC and are intrigued by the Denafrips sound, this gets you virtually the identical sonic signature as the Denafrips, but with a bit better performance. The only downside is its looks if that makes a difference to you.

I am surprised that this unit hasn't received the buzz that the Ares has - it really is a fantastic product that should be an easy decision vs the Denafrips.

Ironically, I will probably end up selling mine though. I have multiple R2R DACs and was looking for either a major sonic improvement over my Ares, or something that sounded different altogether.

Let me know if you have any questions...

What’s a good, inexpensive DDC with which to start?

 

[sajunky]

What’s a good, inexpensive DDC with which to start?

Audio GD DI-20HE. Comes with power regenerator for only $1K. There are more expensive, this one beat them all.

 

[TheRealDz]

What’s a good, inexpensive DDC with which to start?

Musician now has a matching ddc - the Pisces, at about $500. It looks promising, but there are no reviews of it that I could find.

There's also what appears to be a clone - the Ladder Boya for a bit less. https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/ladder-boya-audio-interface-usb-fpga-dsp-processing. Nothing at all online about it though.

But if the focus is on "inexpensive" I am using Douk u2 Pro, and it is surprisingly good for about $50.