[JerseyD]

I’ve used it in balanced mode with RNHP and now using RCA with Woo Audio WA6 2nd Gen. Both are awesome on it. Kind of mind blowingly good

Thanks. What similarly priced DACs have you compared it to?

 

[benjifx19]

Thanks. What similarly priced DACs have you compared it to?

None to be honest. Was a shot in the dark for me but glad it worked out.

 

[Hyde00]

Hyde00, did you ever get the Draco? Would love to hear more people's impressions of it.

lol unfortunately no, it's been a complicated dac journey for me LOL. Tried to buy Bifrost 2 then USPS lost my package. Figure since Bifrost 2 failed decide to buy a local sale of Musician Pegasus that I've been eyeing for a few months then it was sold out by the time I turn around.

Now I'm taking a break from hunting down dac but word on the street is that thre is a new Modi Multibit coming out. So probably going to come down to that or maybe I should give Draco a chance.

Otherwise I'm back to SDAC in the mean time lol. I also have Soekris 1541 but the sound signature doesn't fit my taste.

Decide to focus on something else for now so I just bought Lyr 3 recently and also paid for Project Solstice too so I'm in tube rolling mode will revisit dac later LOL (plan is to A/B them then sell off 1).

I’ve used it in balanced mode with RNHP and now using RCA with Woo Audio WA6 2nd Gen. Both are awesome on it. Kind of mind blowingly good

Ohhh good to hear, funny you mentioned this because my friend just lend me his WA6 last night LOL (first gen I believe).

But thanks for letting me know!

 

[Hyde00]

Oh so I sold my Soekris 1541 now have some funds to look at dac again. As previously mentioned I was wondering if I should wait for the new Modi Multibit 2 that's coming out in December or get Musician Draco instead.

I previously bought a Bifrost 2 from fellow member and USPS lost it and now I don't have the heart/courage to attempt again..... LOL. Also someone mentioned Audio GD might be perfect for my taste but at this point I'm too lazy to hunt down one and I'd prefer to just buy it new at this point and save myself headache (getting old).

Anyone had experience with Modi Multibit vs Draco? I know it's not exactly the same price point but figure I'd ask anyway.

Also I noticed on the Draco page it says:

RCA Out: 1.4 Vrms
XLR Out: 2.8 Vrms

Right now I only have single ended amp so I'll be using RCA out. Though isn't 1.4V kind of low....? I think Pegasus has RCA out at 2.2 Vrms and XLR out at 3.55 Vrms which is more "normal" values.

Do you guys find it's been fine despite the lower output values?

Thanks!

 

[Nick Taylor]

Upgrade those fuses, it'll blow you away. 20 bucks nano aucharm red fuse x 2.

Tried these fuses and it changed the character of this DAC to bright upper midrange and fatiguing sound that didn't suit my system or taste and negated the r2r sound so went back to original. The engineers that designed this DAC chose these fuses for a reason.

 

[Hyde00]

Hey guys it's been sometime! Long story short, I was too tired of trial and error buying / selling dacs so I took a break. Recently decide to give it another go.

I bought a Modi Multibit 2 to try recently, it's actually quite a nice dac for the price but I wanted something a bit richer in the mids and more on the side of what you'd expect for the "R2R sound". Always find that Schiit Multibit dac sit more in the middle between Delta Sigma sound and R2R sound for lack of better explanation.

Anyway so I started reading about Denafrips Ares II / Musician Draco / Musician Pegasus. Was leaning on Denafrips initially due to better customer service feedback, while Musician seems to have built a bad rep. But ultimately I think Musician being sold on Canadian Amazon is easier for me also it just feels like it's a better value for the price. And I haven't really heard much complaint from you guys so I decide to give it a chance. Had a slight concern on the lower output (1.4v single ended) but it sounded like everyone's been saying it sounded good anyway so maybe it's fine?????

Pegasus would've been nicer but it's out of my budget, so today I've placed my order on Draco.

Should arrive in 2 weeks, will let you guys know once it arrives.

 

[elnero]

Hey guys it's been sometime! Long story short, I was too tired of trial and error buying / selling dacs so I took a break. Recently decide to give it another go.

I bought a Modi Multibit 2 to try recently, it's actually quite a nice dac for the price but I wanted something a bit richer in the mids and more on the side of what you'd expect for the "R2R sound". Always find that Schiit Multibit dac sit more in the middle between Delta Sigma sound and R2R sound for lack of better explanation.

Anyway so I started reading about Denafrips Ares II / Musician Draco / Musician Pegasus. Was leaning on Denafrips initially due to better customer service feedback, while Musician seems to have built a bad rep. But ultimately I think Musician being sold on Canadian Amazon is easier for me also it just feels like it's a better value for the price. And I haven't really heard much complaint from you guys so I decide to give it a chance. Had a slight concern on the lower output (1.4v single ended) but it sounded like everyone's been saying it sounded good anyway so maybe it's fine?????

Pegasus would've been nicer but it's out of my budget, so today I've placed my order on Draco.

Should arrive in 2 weeks, will let you guys know once it arrives.

There was a Pegasus on Canuck Audio Mart yesterday or the day before, not sure if it's still there now but might be worth checking out.

 

[Hyde00]

There was a Pegasus on Canuck Audio Mart yesterday or the day before, not sure if it's still there now but might be worth checking out.

lol I messaged him, halfway through our conversation he told me it got sold.

The price was pretty close to a new Draco so it got sold instantly.

And there are a few second hand Denafrips Ares II in Canada same price as new Draco so it makes sense to get the new Draco.

Maybe it's meant to be lol.

 

[Hyde00]

I got my Draco! It's definitely a lot bigger than I expected LOL. Kind of didn't fit the space I planned for it........ oh well........ but build quality is rock solid.

I only just got it today so obviously there's no time to burn in yet. First impression pre-burn in / pre-warm up is that it sounds ok? Now I have a few questions:

1. How much does the sound change after burn in? If my first impression is just "okay" would my impression change later after burn in?

2. How long should the R2R warm up? I know Gungnir is like a week and Modi Multibit is said to be like a day. Though I recently tried Modi Multibit 2 and Audio GD-DAC 19 I find they pretty much sounded good off the bat.

3. Off the bat I notice treble is a bit polite, I guess that's the nature of this dac? Kind of like the Denafrips / Musician family side of things?

4. Vocal seems tiny bit stepped back? Kind of reminds me of Lyr 3 where they try to push for vocal smoothness so it's a bit polite.

5. I'm using USB, should I be investing in a DDC?

6. Should I just be patient and let it burn in and come back to it later? LOL.

Thanks!

EDIT1: Was using USB input, out of curiosity I tried to connect through Coax though my SMSL PO100, and the difference is staggering. Is the USB input suppose to be bad on this unit? Or maybe my USB cable sucks?
EDIT2: After disappointed with USB, Coax is much better. Now trying Optical and in comparison Coax is more thin and sharp ish? Optical is much warmer and more organic sounding. More testing might needed but Optical connection might do the trick.

 

[Garney]

@Hyde00 How are you getting along with the Draco now that you've had it for some time? Sticking with the Coax in or optical?

I'm looking to upgrade from my trusty Modi 3 and am currently eyeing the Draco and Ares II / Enyo.

 

[Hyde00]

I'm looking to upgrade from my trusty Modi 3 and am currently eyeing the Draco and Ares II / Enyo.

EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......... I have some answers for you but I don't know if it's the answer you want to hear.

Before I break the bad news to you let's look at some pretty pictures:



Tadaaaaaaaa ~~~~~~~~~ so I end up getting the Ares II from Canuck Audio Mart so I could compare them side by side. Off the bat they both sound lowest resolution off USB LOL. Then it's best with Coax but it's a little bit sharp so sometimes Optical is a bit better, but if you want highest detail I find Coax worked best for me.

To make matter worse my friend decide to lend me his Audio-GD DAC19 to add it to the mix:



But for the sake of simplicity I'll ignore the Audio-GD DAC19 for now and let's just focus on the Draco vs Ares II.

So what's the bad news? I end up returning Draco to Amazon and sold the Ares II LOLLLLLL. I must be a mad man watching the world burn. But let me elaborate a bit.....

Before jumping into this I read those 2 units should be pretty much identical sounding while Draco is a little bit ahead in resolution and soundstage, but in actuality is not that simple.

Draco
- Treble more rolled off (darker)
- As people said, wider soundstage
- More pronounced bass.
- More pronounced kick drum.
- Vocal more laid back.
- More refined sounding.
- Much easier to use button menu.
- Both sound best in Coax > Optical > USB.

Ares II
- Treble more pronounced (brighter)
- Smaller soundstage but I find layering a little bit better here, think of it as smaller but more separated
- Has "just enough" bass, wish there is more rumble.
- More snappier snare drum.
- Vocal more intimate.
- A bit rough around the edges, but got more refined after the 12th anniversary firmware upgrade.
- Gets complicated to access the secondary menu which you have to use "mute" button then press some other buttons.
- Both sound best in Coax > Optical > USB.

Overall I'd imagine is probably like the difference between HD600 vs HD650, where Ares II is brighter and Draco is darker. Though because my tube amp is single ended only so I didn't get to test XLR, so take my result with grain of salt.

It's also partially why I decide not to keep them, I feel like I'm paying a lot more and definitely not getting the best out of it by using RCA.

So I went back to my Grace SDAC where the resolution is lower and less 3D sounding, but I like the tonal balance better and maybe I do miss the treble quantity from Delta Sigma dacs. I've ordered a Geshelli J2 AKM but it's on 2 months back order so I'll find out later.

If you like wider bigger, but darker presentation and more pronounced bass go with Draco. If you want a little bit smaller but more layered, brighter presentation and more intimate vocal go with Ares II.

Other R2R dacs I've tried are:

Modi Multibit 1
Modi Multibit 2
Soekris 1541
Bifrost 2 OG

None of them are "best at everything", it's really depending on your preference/synergy with other gear. Some are better at certain aspects than others. But if you're coming from Modi 3 then comparing Delta Sigma to R2R it might be quite a different experience. Just not sure if it would be "better" or just "different".

Again I might just be the odd ball here watching the world burn.

Sorry this doesn't exactly answer your question, but definitely let me know if you have more questions LOL.

 

[Nick Taylor]

I got my Draco! It's definitely a lot bigger than I expected LOL. Kind of didn't fit the space I planned for it........ oh well........ but build quality is rock solid.

I only just got it today so obviously there's no time to burn in yet. First impression pre-burn in / pre-warm up is that it sounds ok? Now I have a few questions:

1. How much does the sound change after burn in? If my first impression is just "okay" would my impression change later after burn in?

2. How long should the R2R warm up? I know Gungnir is like a week and Modi Multibit is said to be like a day. Though I recently tried Modi Multibit 2 and Audio GD-DAC 19 I find they pretty much sounded good off the bat.

3. Off the bat I notice treble is a bit polite, I guess that's the nature of this dac? Kind of like the Denafrips / Musician family side of things?

4. Vocal seems tiny bit stepped back? Kind of reminds me of Lyr 3 where they try to push for vocal smoothness so it's a bit polite.

5. I'm using USB, should I be investing in a DDC?

6. Should I just be patient and let it burn in and come back to it later? LOL.

Thanks!

EDIT1: Was using USB input, out of curiosity I tried to connect through Coax though my SMSL PO100, and the difference is staggering. Is the USB input suppose to be bad on this unit? Or maybe my USB cable sucks?
EDIT2: After disappointed with USB, Coax is much better. Now trying Optical and in comparison Coax is more thin and sharp ish? Optical is much warmer and more organic sounding. More testing might needed but Optical connection might do the trick.

Had the Draco for about a year now and am very happy with the SQ with the setup I have now.
However I find it more responsive to setup changes than my Topping D90 was.
I find streaming from any computer using USB sounds rubbish.
So a streamer or DDC is a must.
I use a ifi Zen stream with a topping P50 15v power supply and a Supra excalibur USB cable with a Supra LAN cable from an ethernet switch.
I find this setup vastly improved the laid back and polite sound and makes it more detailed and alive sounding while still retaining the smooth R2R sound and great soundstage compared to the flat,sterile and somewhat in your face(yet incredibly detailed) delta sigma sound that can become fatiguing.
At the end of the day it's a question of system synergy and room setup in achieving a sound that is pleasing to you.

 

[Hyde00]

I find streaming from any computer using USB sounds rubbish.
So a streamer or DDC is a must.

LOL this is probably where I went wrong, I was using computer USB first then later on switch to a cheapo SMSL PO100 DDC, which is quite a bit better but probably still has room for improvement.

Noted, will need a decent DDC first.

I find this setup vastly improved the laid back and polite sound and makes it more detailed and alive sounding while still retaining the smooth R2R sound.

Yeah this explains a lot, I did find it really laid back and polite.

 

[sajunky]

@Hyde00. Audion GD DAC19 is very old. If not upgraded with v2 R2R modules, it may even disappoint. There are number generations since then.

For your tube amp Audio GD R-1 would pair very well, but considering your ground loops problems I would suggest R-8Mk2. It has USB isolator, while R-1 do not. In your current configuration a quality DDC like DI-20 will help for sure. In meantime consider simple methods for eliminating ground loops:

- self powered USB 2.0 hub
- ifi Defender
- converters to S/PDIF with ultra low jitter clocks like Douk Audio U2Pro.

When you solve ground loops problem, DACs may look different.
Q. How do I know?
A. When USB connection sounds better than S/PDIF.

 

[Garney]

EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.......... I have some answers for you but I don't know if it's the answer you want to hear.

Before I break the bad news to you let's look at some pretty pictures:



Tadaaaaaaaa ~~~~~~~~~ so I end up getting the Ares II from Canuck Audio Mart so I could compare them side by side. Off the bat they both sound lowest resolution off USB LOL. Then it's best with Coax but it's a little bit sharp so sometimes Optical is a bit better, but if you want highest detail I find Coax worked best for me.

To make matter worse my friend decide to lend me his Audio-GD DAC19 to add it to the mix:



But for the sake of simplicity I'll ignore the Audio-GD DAC19 for now and let's just focus on the Draco vs Ares II.

So what's the bad news? I end up returning Draco to Amazon and sold the Ares II LOLLLLLL. I must be a mad man watching the world burn. But let me elaborate a bit.....

Before jumping into this I read those 2 units should be pretty much identical sounding while Draco is a little bit ahead in resolution and soundstage, but in actuality is not that simple.

Draco
- Treble more rolled off (darker)
- As people said, wider soundstage
- More pronounced bass.
- More pronounced kick drum.
- Vocal more laid back.
- More refined sounding.
- Much easier to use button menu.
- Both sound best in Coax > Optical > USB.

Ares II
- Treble more pronounced (brighter)
- Smaller soundstage but I find layering a little bit better here, think of it as smaller but more separated
- Has "just enough" bass, wish there is more rumble.
- More snappier snare drum.
- Vocal more intimate.
- A bit rough around the edges, but got more refined after the 12th anniversary firmware upgrade.
- Gets complicated to access the secondary menu which you have to use "mute" button then press some other buttons.
- Both sound best in Coax > Optical > USB.

Overall I'd imagine is probably like the difference between HD600 vs HD650, where Ares II is brighter and Draco is darker. Though because my tube amp is single ended only so I didn't get to test XLR, so take my result with grain of salt.

It's also partially why I decide not to keep them, I feel like I'm paying a lot more and definitely not getting the best out of it by using RCA.

So I went back to my Grace SDAC where the resolution is lower and less 3D sounding, but I like the tonal balance better and maybe I do miss the treble quantity from Delta Sigma dacs. I've ordered a Geshelli J2 AKM but it's on 2 months back order so I'll find out later.

If you like wider bigger, but darker presentation and more pronounced bass go with Draco. If you want a little bit smaller but more layered, brighter presentation and more intimate vocal go with Ares II.

Other R2R dacs I've tried are:

Modi Multibit 1
Modi Multibit 2
Soekris 1541
Bifrost 2 OG

None of them are "best at everything", it's really depending on your preference/synergy with other gear. Some are better at certain aspects than others. But if you're coming from Modi 3 then comparing Delta Sigma to R2R it might be quite a different experience. Just not sure if it would be "better" or just "different".

Again I might just be the odd ball here watching the world burn.

Sorry this doesn't exactly answer your question, but definitely let me know if you have more questions LOL.

Thanks for the detailed reply! Good food for thought. I wonder how the presentation changes when paired with a solid state amp rather than an SE tube amp? My amp (Asgard 3) is RCA only and SE so I’d likely be bottlenecking the Draco (or Ares II) a bit by not utilizing XLR.

My only experience with R2R DACs to date is a Cayin RU6 which is limited to IEM use only via 4.4mm output. I like how it sounds with most of my IEMs which is why I’m considering an R2R for desktop to pair with my LCD-2 and Empyrean.

I’m mostly a streamer via Spotify and Tidal but do also have a fair amount of FLAC files as well. However I tend to stream more often than not. I’d prefer to not have to add a DDC or streamer but am also considering it if I’ll be otherwise disappointed with USB or optical in from my PC.