Multiple gauge wire inside a cable?

[pinnahertz]

No conditions that would be in a typical home stereo system, which is what we're talking about. I don't think anyone here is wiring their stereo up to speakers at a neighbor's house down the block.

I bought my wire at Radio Shack. It said "speaker wire" on the spindle. So I used it to wire up my speakers. It worked fine.

Radio Shack used to sell 22ga speaker wire. And 16ga. And 14ga. Which do you think might present an issue? And which did you use? I have no doubt you did the right thing, I'm just pointing out that we cannot and should not be to "generic" if we really want to bust the myths.

As I've said now twice, it's important to know when problems might occur. Once that is known, all myths about exotic wire are debunked. I've never suggested common speaker wiring situations and common speaker wire would cause problems, I'm attempting (and apparently not doing so well) to quantify just how much wire of what kind you need to use to actually have a problem. Everyone can then say "Hey, I didn't do anything like that!" and bingo...we're done with wire myths, until they come back and raise their ugly heads again.

 

[bigshot]

I just bought the stuff the guy at Radio Shack gave me. It worked out fine. There are things that took a LOT more attention on my part than wires. I use Chinese interconnects that came free with my $40 WalMart DVD player. When the connections start to get funky, I replace them. I don't see how wires make any difference at all to my system and just about anyone else's. If they like nice cloth covered wires, or ones in aquarium tubing packed in with loam on model railroad trestles, that's fine for aesthetic reasons. But I don't see how any of it makes any difference at all in a normal living room.

 

[71 dB]

Sure it is, never said it wasn't. It's useful to know where these things get to be a problem, though, rather than just blowing it off as "theoretical". Once you understand where cable C, L, R and skin effect begin to be a real problem you then see why it isn't in a particular, or even most, situations.

In my opinion normal 2x1.5 mm2 (21ga ? 22ga ? Sorry, I use metric system like most of the world) OFC-speaker cable is fine for almost all home listening setups and if it isn't (demanding load/long cable run) then go for 2x2.5 mm2 or even 2x4.0 mm2 cable.

Or is 2x1.5 mm2 17ga?

 

[71 dB]

I use Chinese interconnects that came free with my $40 WalMart DVD player. When the connections start to get funky, I replace them. I don't see how wires make any difference at all to my system and just about anyone else's. If they like nice cloth covered wires, or ones in aquarium tubing packed in with loam on model railroad trestles, that's fine for aesthetic reasons. But I don't see how any of it makes any difference at all in a normal living room.

In my opinion and experience the cheap interconnectors that come with the players sound just fine (why wouldn't they?), but generate connection problems VERY easily. That's why I don't use them. Interconnectors should be reliable. Most of the interconnector cables I use I have soldered myself from cheap parts (connectors and cable) and they just work. That way I can also optimize the length. If I need 20 inch cables I can make 20 inch cables. Most bang for the buck in audio comes from speakers (headphones) and improving room acoustics (diy crossfeed) and the least (if anything) you get investing money on interconnectors. Pricy "high end" interconnectors are literally oiled snakes in audio.

 

[Arpiben]

In my opinion normal 2x1.5 mm2 (21ga ? 22ga ? Sorry, I use metric system like most of the world) OFC-speaker cable is fine for almost all home listening setups and if it isn't (demanding load/long cable run) then go for 2x2.5 mm2 or even 2x4.0 mm2 cable.

Or is 2x1.5 mm2 17ga?

It may help:
https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-gauge.pdf

 

[71 dB]

It may help:
https://www.calmont.com/wp-content/uploads/calmont-eng-wire-gauge.pdf

Thanks! I googled a lot of these tables, but it's not so simple. 2x1.5mm2 wire has radius r = sqrt(1.5/pii) mm = 0.69 mm which means that the diameter d = 2*r = 1.38 mm. Now, how is this related to nominal diameter? What is the type of wire? Nominal diameter 1.32 mm for RB type (construction 7x15/38) wire means AWG size 18. The strand construction affects things, but maybe we could say that 18ga works for most situations?

 

[Allanmarcus]

Wow, we have gotten WAY off topic, as far as I can tell. Unless anyone has a comment on using multiple gauge wires in the same cable, how about we call this thread closed and move on.

 

[bigshot]

In my opinion and experience the cheap interconnectors that come with the players sound just fine (why wouldn't they?), but generate connection problems VERY easily. That's why I don't use them. Interconnectors should be reliable.

My system is static. I only pull wires when I buy a new piece of equipment. I use better cables for use with my computers and iPhone because I pull them all the time. But RCA cables don't have to be that rugged for my purposes. I try not to yank my HDMI cables much. I find those are particularly delicate, and even expensive ones can crap out with rough handling.

 

[71 dB]

My system is static.

I thought it was ecstatic!

 

[Arpiben]

Thanks! I googled a lot of these tables, but it's not so simple. 2x1.5mm2 wire has radius r = sqrt(1.5/pii) mm = 0.69 mm which means that the diameter d = 2*r = 1.38 mm. Now, how is this related to nominal diameter? What is the type of wire? Nominal diameter 1.32 mm for RB type (construction 7x15/38) wire means AWG size 18. The strand construction affects things, but maybe we could say that 18ga works for most situations?

International standard insulated wire sizes are defined in IEC 60228 by cross-sectional area: 0.5 mm2 / 0.75 mm2 / 1 mm2 / 1.5 mm2 / 2.5 mm2 / 4 mm2, etc...
Brown & Sharpe wire gauge or American Wire Gauge (AWG) is another standard.
AWG gauges are also used to describe multi-strand wire. In this case, it describes a wire which is equal in cross-sectional area to the total of all the cross-sectional areas of the individual strands; the gaps between strands are not counted. Stranded wires are specified with three numbers, the overall AWG size, the number of strands, and the AWG size of a strand. The number of strands and the AWG of a strand are separated by a slash. For example, a 22 AWG 7/30 stranded wire is a 22 AWG wire made from seven strands of 30 AWG wire.

The table was dealing with copper cables.
The strand construction and geometry (rotation step/thread, individual strand insulated or not , etc..) do not affect significantly things at frequency and power used in Audio.
Multi Strand, multi gauge cable 3D electromagnetic simulators are available even for complex Litz constructions.Nothing new to expect at Audio level.

In electricity, cable section or gauge is calculated taking into account:

• the cable length multiply by two ( way and back)
• the cable resistivity
• the current,voltage the cable has to withstand.

When the result gives a value in between IEC standard size you take the highest closer value. Ex 1.1mm2 result implies a 1.5mm2 cable.

In typical home usage ( cable length, power ), the AWG 18 should be fine. But as pointed out by @pinnahertz we should avoid being generic

 

[Allanmarcus]

Regarding a static set up. I remember reading somewhere that the RCA phono plug was "self-cleaning". Simply inserting and removing it caused it to rub in such a way at to clean the contacts. I also remember reading that occasionally unplugging and plugging in RCA cables was a good idea, since the contacts can oxidate and/or simply attract dust. Seems fairly reasonable, and not expensive at all!

Of course using something like DeOxit or other cleaning solution and a q-tip might help too.

 

[SilverEars]

Impedance of the cable and the DAC output is quite insignificant compared to quite large input impedance of the amp. The signal output from the source is seeing the amp as a huge load. If the signal was going to low ohm speaker would be different.

Here's something I recall from long ago as far as cabling to headphone. Check out the wires that goes to Sennheiser drivers, how thin they are.

 

[pinnahertz]

Impedance of the cable and the DAC output is quite insignificant compared to quite large input impedance of the amp. The signal output from the source is seeing the amp as a huge load. If the signal was going to low ohm speaker would be different.

Here's something I recall from long ago as far as cabling to headphone. Check out the wires that goes to Sennheiser drivers, how thin they are.

Cable characteristic impedance is meaningless for audio frequencies and cables below a mile or so in length, regardless of application. The only thing that really matters is cable R, unless the source Z is very high and the termination Z is also very high, as in a phono cartridge. Otherwise the source Z swamps cable C, and L is too tiny to have an effect. And all that's true until cables get pretty long.

The tiny wires going to the drivers are also insignificant because they are short.

 

[Speedskater]

Some random thoughts:
a] In AC power, almost all the current is below 500/600 Hz, while anything above 5000/6000 Hz can be viewed as noise/interference.
b] Current will take all available paths. Inversely proportional to the path's impedance.
c] In a RCA interconnect, the only reasons for the center conductor to be 26AWG or larger (diameter) are mechanical. A smaller conductor could easily break. With a 10,000 Ohm load there is almost no current.
d] A larger conductor will have lower impedance regardless of the high frequency.

 

[skwoodwiva]

Hello,

Monoprice sells a rebranded Ethereal cable that MP is called the Monolith cable. The MP cable has 4 different wires for + and 4 more for common in the cable.

I'be build 8 and 16 core headphones cables, but generally with the same wire. I just assumed I was getting lower gauge wire by combining wire. Mostly I did it for looks.

Pangea sells an AC-14 power cable that I was told the following about:



I was thinking of building some RCA cables with that include different materials and gauge wire, but not if it's a waste of time. Any thoughts on having copper, silver, solid core, litz, and stranded wire of the different gauges in the same cable?

Thanks,

Allan

Litz is hot, hi end zing, silver plated. Kimber does the same differential ga bundle. I just made HP cable by braiding this 19 ga Teflon OFC. My dampening factor went up by maybe a grand. Great bass. Max volume now hurts, but that could be the magnets