[negura]

But it does affect if you put them in a wrong context, like you are writhing S/N 127dba are good but not the best and so on..

But it is not a S/N figure you are reading in the spec. It is a DR value . ( Dynamic Range)

Thats why everyone think it is not so good, so i will ask Rob to tell Chord to edit the info spec of DAVE because you are not alone to get miss led by the unusual spec data the have published, it is better to take the same measuring specs like all other companies are using, it is easier to compare it then if someone like to spend their time to do that.

 
 
Well I am glad this has been mentioned, as DR could be even more significant. It is directly related to the effective number of bits, which is effective resolution. From the published figure what we could tell is that the Chord Dave cannot really match the resolution of the MSB Analog, which is 133dB, this being the entry level MSB DAC. Can the Dave sound very nice, rich and exciting? Sure, entirely possible. I just doubt its ability of pulling a rabbit out of the hat, that's all.
 
127dB is a bit better than the measured Yggdrasil DAC. Also the Dave does cost considerably more, but it includes some headamp option. It could be a good product no doubt.

 

[Beolab]

Well I am glad this has been mentioned, as DR could be even more significant. It is directly related to the effective number of bits, which is effective resolution. From the published figure what we could tell is that the Chord Dave cannot really match the resolution of the MSB Analog, which is 133dB, this being the entry level MSB DAC. Can the Dave sound very nice, rich and exciting? Sure, entirely possible. I just doubt its ability of pulling a rabbit out of the hat, that's all.

127dB is a bit better than the measured Yggdrasil DAC. Also the Dave does cost considerably more, but it includes some headamp option. It could be a good product no doubt.

Quote Rob Watts again with the following answer of your last statement and conclusion:

No other DAC comes anywhere close to Dave's measured performance. As too DAC dynamic range, its a pretty meaningless number - it just tells you the residual hiss level. What is more important is noise floor modulation, of which Dave has none, and small signal distortion, which again Dave has none.

Rob

 

[negura]

Quote Rob Watts again with the following answer of your last statement and conclusion:

No other DAC comes anywhere close to Dave's measured performance. As too DAC dynamic range, its a pretty meaningless number - it just tells you the residual hiss level. What is more important is noise floor modulation, of which Dave has none, and small signal distortion, which again Dave has none.

Rob

 
I did read this the first time around as I'm sure so did others. 
 
Statements of DR being a meaningless number, but hyping -180dB until published performance proves to be way less at 127dB. Hence it's now not important? Hey-ho. I agree with designers to promote their products, but not with ambivalent statements. If those specs are real, I do not see how the Dave can match the Analog in resolution, not to mention other MSB DACs in the range. Can the Dave sound "nice" - sure.
 
 This being the MSB (Analog DAC) thread, there are odds this could be going a bit off topic...

 

[Beolab]

I just think this showing that some spec of measured data values often is a variety of different measuring methods / and technics , and the makers can measure and publish what ever they want in what ever db / ohm / volt scale they want. They take the value that seem to look the best often

( Not Chord though, they took the worst value the could possibly find; the DR value, and that is very hilarious and not so clever of the marketing department maybe =)

Almost no one in here will ever know or understand it what each different value does for the sound, because you can measure it in so many different ways, like one brand ( No names, but it have a M in the name)
did measure the S/N value on their new top of the line DAC a couple of years ago by shutting OFF the DAC when they measured the noise floor and the Dynamic Range value with high pitched pink noise to get as high value possible.




So before you and i have a degree in electro physics, and ruin the thread i think it is better we rest our case here, the DAVE and MSB Select II have the among the best sound i have ever heard and the best measured values nevertheless what anyone acclaims, and that is easy to understand, just listen to them with your ears.

I have heard them both during the same day but not side buy side unfortunately.

Back to topic

 

[isquirrel]

The Select II has arrived and although I am still tweaking and playing around with it, the sound is superb. It was worth the wait  

 

 

[isquirrel]

For those that are interested, inputs and outputs on the DAC & Server, digital cables are AES 110 ohm plus 75 ohm BNC word clock sync.
 

 

[Johnny Moondog]

Exciting that the Select II has arrived!
 
Curious to know what cables you are using for AES and word clock sync? I don't recognize them. And are you going to compare them to a USB connection, or have you already done that?

 

[isquirrel]

  Exciting that the Select II has arrived!
 
Curious to know what cables you are using for AES and word clock sync? I don't recognize them. And are you going to compare them to a USB connection, or have you already done that?

Transparent Ref XL 110 ohm AES digital & same make but 75 ohm BNC for the Word Clock. I have compared to USB, prefer AES 

 

[Icenine2]

isquirrel,
 
I've got the Head-Fi jet and on my over for a visit!

 

[romaz]

Beautiful, Simon.  Compared to the other Select you had on hand, what kind of improvements are you hearing with the addition of the better clock and the mono power bases?

 

[isquirrel]

  Beautiful, Simon.  Compared to the other Select you had on hand, what kind of improvements are you hearing with the addition of the better clock and the mono power bases?

Thanks Roy, well it will take time as the DAC is not yet fully run in. In particular as you know I only switched in the single ended output module yesterday so that has less than 30 hours on it. 
 
It is difficult to attribute what increase I am hearing to which component. With the clock and power you have 2 out of maybe 3 of the most important factors. I am also using the AES and the Word Clock modules which were not present in the other Select, which was I2S and USB only.
 
There are some idea's of areas of research for possible improvements. Network Renderers are looking like the way of the future, we have managed to get Roon running on the a test Renderer as well as some very cool proprierity software which users will be able to choose between. At this point that is scheduled to be launched at one of the forthcoming major shows this year. I have also experimented with different types of isolation and was surprised at the significant differences found there.

 

[Pale Rider]

 There are some idea's of areas of research for possible improvements. Network Renderers are looking like the way of the future, we have managed to get Roon running on the V2 test Renderer as well as some very cool proprierity software which users will be able to choose between. At this point that is scheduled to be launched at one of the forthcoming major shows this year. I have also experimented with different types of isolation and was surprised at the significant differences found there.
 

This is very exciting. I am waiting for my Sig V right now, but am jazzed about the Roon prospect, as I know it is on the agenda for MSB. [Nervously eyeing the bank account, and considering the jump between the Sig and the Select.]


Update: Guess I wasn't nervous enough. Made the switch and ordered the Select II with the Femto 33 clock.

 

[seeteeyou]

Speaking of cables, could this 5-figure one be a serious contender?
 
http://audioexotics.vanillaforums.com/discussion/13002/skogrand-flagship-usb-cable-beethoven
http://audioexotics.hk/studio/
 

 

 

 

 

 
Also praised by another owner of Metronome Calypso Reference transport and the flagship Norodst Odin 2 Digital here
 
http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=93615
http://www.nordost.com/images/review-images/review-pdf/410_nordost_odin2_eng.pdf
 

---

 
Yet another graphene-based product line that's quite promising so far, don't be fooled by the price tag though
 
http://cerioustechnologies.com/cables/lcPowerCords.html
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19000-Cerious-Graphene-Extreme-ICs&p=370375&viewfull=1#post370375
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19311-The-Making-Of-A-Cerious-Technologies-Graphene-Extreme-Cable
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=166439
 
A few happy campers right here on Head-Fi
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/2835#post_12083073
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/2835#post_12095141
http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen/675#post_12177799
http://www.head-fi.org/t/797881/ddc-digital-usb-interfaces-xmos-or-amanero-combo384-based-raspberry-pi-hifiberry-dac-pro-reviews-comparison-modifications-and-usb-audio-in-general/30#post_12357129
 
Even SR should be tapping into the tremendous potential of graphene so that's gotta be something
 
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-tranquility-base-with-uef-graphene/
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-atmosphere-series-ac-power-cords/
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-atmosphere-series-headphone-cables/

 

[Pale Rider]

Speaking of cables, could this 5-figure one be a serious contender?

Serious contender for what? Top 10 Reasons Not To Use USB?

 

[Icenine2]

  Speaking of cables, could this 5-figure one be a serious contender?
 
http://audioexotics.vanillaforums.com/discussion/13002/skogrand-flagship-usb-cable-beethoven
http://audioexotics.hk/studio/
 

 

 

 

 

 
Also praised by another owner of Metronome Calypso Reference transport and the flagship Norodst Odin 2 Digital here
 
http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=93615
http://www.nordost.com/images/review-images/review-pdf/410_nordost_odin2_eng.pdf
 

---

 
Yet another graphene-based product line that's quite promising so far, don't be fooled by the price tag though
 
http://cerioustechnologies.com/cables/lcPowerCords.html
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19000-Cerious-Graphene-Extreme-ICs&p=370375&viewfull=1#post370375
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19311-The-Making-Of-A-Cerious-Technologies-Graphene-Extreme-Cable
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=cables&m=166439
 
A few happy campers right here on Head-Fi
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/2835#post_12083073
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/2835#post_12095141
http://www.head-fi.org/t/762967/uptone-audio-usb-regen/675#post_12177799
http://www.head-fi.org/t/797881/ddc-digital-usb-interfaces-xmos-or-amanero-combo384-based-raspberry-pi-hifiberry-dac-pro-reviews-comparison-modifications-and-usb-audio-in-general/30#post_12357129
 
Even SR should be tapping into the tremendous potential of graphene so that's gotta be something
 
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-tranquility-base-with-uef-graphene/
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-atmosphere-series-ac-power-cords/
http://www.synergisticresearch.com/new-atmosphere-series-headphone-cables/

Wow!  That's like the briefcase in Pulp Fiction.